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Would you add a P12 to a Pro2 and REV2?

Would you add a P12 to a Pro2 and REV2?
« on: September 22, 2019, 08:32:25 AM »
Hello from Berlin!

I do own a DSI PRO2 and a Rev2 (these are my only two Hardware synths and I love them both).

I ask my self would it a good idea to pair them with a Prophet 12 Module?
I can get a second hand P12 Desktop in mint condition for 1000Ä.

Im afraid that my Pro2 and the P12 can be quite similar in their sonic character and thereíd be a lot of crossover/redundancy with that combination.

Will a P12 bring significantly more on the table as I already have? Is there much of overlapping?

Iím looking for a companion specially for ambient, soundscapes and experimental music. I also love the Berlin School type of music like Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schulze, Ashra Temple etc.

I donít like most of the commercial sounds, thatís why Iím looking for something different.

Iím interesting in these kind of sounds.
This video makes me curious and interested in the Prophet 12.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nQgqZIA0Glk

Do you think a Pro2 and a Rev2 would be enough to create something like this? (My Rev2 is quite new and I didnít explored all capabilities of this synth already.)

Do you think It would be a good idea to invest in the the P12 or should I save the 1000Ä for something different what will be more useful?

Iím a little bit afraid that 1000Ä is a lot of money for just another DSI synth when I own already two of them. For almost the same money I could buy a Mother 32, a Behringer Model D and a Neutron to pair them with the Pro2 to check out some modular capabilities.

Iím really very interesting in the Prophet 12 (maybe itís GAS?) but do i need this synth, seriously? Other options can be also interesting.

Iím curious what Prophet 12 owners think about it...

Thanks a lot for your advices and recommendations! Hope you can help me to decide to buy the P12 or not.

Cheers!

/edit
I know that the Pro2 and P12 are discontinued. Would you buy one second hand these days or is it worth to wait for a new and better P12 REV2 what is probably in the Sequential pipeline?

//edit
Sorry for my basic English...  8)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2019, 09:59:55 AM by Chandro Ji »
DSI Pro2, Prophet 12 and Prophet Rev2 Keyboards, Waldorf Blofeld, Elektron Analog Four, Digitone, Analog Four, Synthstrom Deluge, Roli Seaboard
iPad Pro, Auria Pro, FabFilters, Eventide Blackhole and more great music apps. :)

Re: Would you add a P12 to a Pro2 and REV2?
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2019, 10:08:32 AM »
I haven't played the Rev2 but from what I gather from reviews and such, functionally there's quite alot of overlap between them (I'd say both of them are kind of swiss army knife style synths, lots of bells and wistles). I would assume there's not gonna be a huge difference in sound between the DCO's and the P12 digital oscs (using the analog waveforms). I have a P12 and wouldn't consider getting the Rev2 , instead my plan is to get the Prophet 6 to get more of a different flavour as I'd say I can probably do most of what the Rev2 can do with the P12, and I can always add FX externally.

Also, personally I feel like the P12 is pretty deep, I think having the Keyboard version with all those knobs helps uncover the depth of it faster and easier, I would assume the desktop version is gonna be a bit more work to get to know the full depth. On the other hand, at the lower price it's easier to justify obviously.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2019, 10:10:58 AM by mrj1nx »

Re: Would you add a P12 to a Pro2 and REV2?
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2019, 01:50:48 PM »
I haven't played the Rev2 but from what I gather from reviews and such, functionally there's quite alot of overlap between them (I'd say both of them are kind of swiss army knife style synths, lots of bells and wistles).

Thanks a lot for your reply @mrj1nx, very appreciated!
I just bought the Rev2 because I got a good second hand deal, so Iím just beginning with this synth. I love him so far. Sounds great even with just 8 voices. I also think that the Rev2 can do more than the presets suggests.

Quote
I would assume there's not gonna be a huge difference in sound between the DCO's and the P12 digital oscs (using the analog waveforms). I have a P12 and wouldn't consider getting the Rev2 ,

I believe a Prophet 12 in the right hands can sounds almost as a Rev2 but can a Rev2 sounds like a P12? But I also think that they can come quite close sound wise and what the Rev2 canít do maybe the Pro2 can do...  :)

I think you vote for not to buy an additional P12, isnít it?


Quote
Also, personally I feel like the P12 is pretty deep, I think having the Keyboard version with all those knobs helps uncover the depth of it faster and easier, I would assume the desktop version is gonna be a bit more work to get to know the full depth. On the other hand, at the lower price it's easier to justify obviously.

I would much prefer the keyboard version of the P12, the User Interface seems perfect and looks quite similar to the Pro2. Sadly it is anymore available in Germany except someone would sell this beauty. The module version is still available in the shops and second hand.

The P12 module cost around 1600Ä new, so 1000Ä second hand looks like a good deal for such a powerful synthesizer.

Thanks again for your good advice mrj1nx :)

Cheers!
DSI Pro2, Prophet 12 and Prophet Rev2 Keyboards, Waldorf Blofeld, Elektron Analog Four, Digitone, Analog Four, Synthstrom Deluge, Roli Seaboard
iPad Pro, Auria Pro, FabFilters, Eventide Blackhole and more great music apps. :)

Re: Would you add a P12 to a Pro2 and REV2?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2019, 05:01:49 PM »
I have owned both a REV 2 & Prophet 12 keyboard, but not a Pro 2.

Sonically there's not a great deal of difference to their sound character tbh, but the extra waveforms on the Prophet 12 give it a more diverse canvas from which to create.

Both can make sounds the other synth cannot, but I'd say the Prophet 12 can probably replicate 90% of the sounds the REV2 can make, whilst the REV2 can probably only replicate 70% of the sounds the Prophet 12 can make.
However, it's the UI and that really separates them.

At first glance the UI of the REV2 and the P12 may look very similar. Both have a plethora of knobs to quickly edit the synth and avoid menus, so you may expect them both to be very similar in use then Ė which they areÖup to a point.



The differences in UI is where the Prophet 12 starts to flex itís muscles though.

There are lots of what might initially appear to seem insignificant little differences between the Prophet 12 and REV2, that cumulatively make a BIG difference to the overall user experience (or at least they did for me).

The biggest impact on navigating the UI comes from the larger OLED display found on the P12.

Compared to the OLED display on the REV 2, the Prophet 12ís display is much larger and capable of displaying more information, with soft encoder knobs and buttons above and below the display that can be used to edit the information shown without having to switch pages - it also has dedicated bank select buttons and numeric keypad along side it for quickly accessing programs (not found on the desktop).


The larger OLED display is sharp and clearly shows the information you need when editing.
It is easy to read, but crucially it also allows for the editing of more than 1 parameter at a time.

This is one of the bigger differences between the P12 and the REV2.


The bigger display also improves navigation by giving more visual prompts.
So for example when editing an envelope, it visually displays the envelope shape and associated values, or when editing an oscillator the waveform shape will be shown.
This is particularly useful when shape modding as in addition to hearing the change you can see it too Ė great! 
found it frustrating coming from a UI like that to the small display screen one the REV2 - made it feel 'fiddly'.

The Prophet 12 is in some ways an understated synth. 4 oscillators PLUS a sub oscillator is a VERY good starting point for any synth, but in addition to that you also have 2 auxiliary envelopes (which are assignable to pretty much anything), a massive 24 modulation slots (8 preset and 16 user), which is twice as many as found on the REV2.

Thereís almost twice as many destinations on the P12 too - 100 compared to 54 on the REV2. The four LFOís on the P12 offer more shapes as modulation sources too and with FM & AM thereís a lot of little extras that sonically just make the P12 more absorbing than the REV2.


Thatís not to say the REV2 isnít a great synth too btw (it is) and I really liked mine and If I hadn't already owned a Prophet 12 I've no doubt I'd still have the REV2, but thereís just a depth to the P12, an extra dimension in sound creation that the REV2 (or most other synths for that matter), simply donít offer and because of the excellent UI and the clever use of the OLED display, accessing the extra power of this synth is easy.

That doesn't necessarily make it a better sounding synth than the REV2, but it does IMO make it a better instrument to use.

If you want an easy to use, great sounding synth that gives instant gratification with easy to use fx, the REV2 is definitely the perfect choice.

However if you want a synth that gets deeper the longer you own it and offers greater options for sound creation, then the Prophet 12 is the daddy!

Ultimately, both the Rev2 and Prophet 12 are excellent synths and either one is a good choice for those seeking an easily tweakable polysynth.

Together they can be great (sounded massive), but ultimately I couldn't justify keeping both as they were too similar in sound character and the UI and slider strips found on the Prophet 12 meant it was the one I kept.

As much as I liked the REV2 (and I really did), after being used to the Prophet 12 UI, I constantly found myself wishing the REV2 had the same interface, because those little differences between the two make a big difference overall (at least they did for me).


The only thing the REV2 has that is hands down MUCH better at than the Prophet 12 is the keybed.
It has a very nice playing action compared to the cheap, light, 'clackety' keybed used on the Prophet 12 - which is my only major gripe with  the Prophet 12.

I liked the extra 4 note polyphony and fx available on the REV2 too, but it wasn't enough to justify it staying in my studio setup.

Hope this helps.

« Last Edit: September 22, 2019, 05:46:13 PM by jazzygb1 »

Re: Would you add a P12 to a Pro2 and REV2?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2019, 12:42:03 PM »
I have owned both a REV 2 & Prophet 12 keyboard, but not a Pro 2.

Sonically there's not a great deal of difference to their sound character tbh, but the extra waveforms on the Prophet 12 give it a more diverse canvas from which to create.

Both can make sounds the other synth cannot, but I'd say the Prophet 12 can probably replicate 90% of the sounds the REV2 can make, whilst the REV2 can probably only replicate 70% of the sounds the Prophet 12 can make.
However, it's the UI and that really separates them.

Great Post @jazzygb1, thank you so much for your thoughts!
I think you nailed it!  :)

I had almost the same impression with the 90% and 70%

Quote
The differences in UI is where the Prophet 12 starts to flex itís muscles though.

There are lots of what might initially appear to seem insignificant little differences between the Prophet 12 and REV2, that cumulatively make a BIG difference to the overall user experience (or at least they did for me).

The biggest impact on navigating the UI comes from the larger OLED display found on the P12.

The User Interface at my Pro2 is almost identical with the P12. Almost the same knobs per function and the big OLED Display helps a lot to tweak the synth. I really love the UI, thatís why a P12 would be perfect, no need to learn a different UI. I can feel familiar with the P12 from the very beginning. The Pro2 was my very first DSI synth.

And you are right, the Display of the Rev2 looks quite poor in comparison.


Quote
...found it frustrating coming from a UI like that to the small display screen one the REV2 - made it feel 'fiddly'.

I hear you!


Quote
The Prophet 12 is in some ways an understated synth. 4 oscillators PLUS a sub oscillator is a VERY good starting point for any synth, but in addition to that you also have 2 auxiliary envelopes (which are assignable to pretty much anything), a massive 24 modulation slots (8 preset and 16 user), which is twice as many as found on the REV2.

Thereís almost twice as many destinations on the P12 too - 100 compared to 54 on the REV2. The four LFOís on the P12 offer more shapes as modulation sources too and with FM & AM thereís a lot of little extras that sonically just make the P12 more absorbing than the REV2.

Itís almost the same with the Pro2. I think the main Difference here is the 12 voice polyphony the P12 offers. The Pro2 is mono or 4 voice paraphonic and there are different filters.

Quote

Thatís not to say the REV2 isnít a great synth too btw (it is) and I really liked mine and If I hadn't already owned a Prophet 12 I've no doubt I'd still have the REV2, but thereís just a depth to the P12, an extra dimension in sound creation that the REV2 (or most other synths for that matter), simply donít offer...

I bought the Rev2 just a week ago and the overall sound impressions makes me smile. This synth is really not bad itís sounds fantastic to my ears.

Quote
That doesn't necessarily make it a better sounding synth than the REV2, but it does IMO make it a better instrument to use.

I hear you! I also believe that a great UI helps immensely to find a comfortable and creative workflow.

Quote
If you want an easy to use, great sounding synth that gives instant gratification with easy to use fx, the REV2 is definitely the perfect choice.

However if you want a synth that gets deeper the longer you own it and offers greater options for sound creation, then the Prophet 12 is the daddy!

Ultimately, both the Rev2 and Prophet 12 are excellent synths and either one is a good choice for those seeking an easily tweakable polysynth.

Together they can be great (sounded massive), but ultimately I couldn't justify keeping both as they were too similar in sound character and the UI and slider strips found on the Prophet 12 meant it was the one I kept.

My dilemma is that I already own the Rev2. I bought it impulsively because I wanted a big and good synth, I got a good deal and I needed to be fast. After the purchase Iíve started to investigate the forum here and YouTube for more useful infoís and then finally the P12 appears on my radar.

Now, my mind says I have two very nice hardware synths (and a lot softsynths) so everything should be fine but something in me says the Prophet 12 would be the better synth for my needs. Iím not interested in commercial music but Iím interested in ambient, soundscapes and experimental, meditative stuff. Iím sure most of the presets I will never use so I need to create my own thing. The P12 seems perfect for my needs because as you said the P12 offers a lot possibilities, most other synths donít.

Sure, I can sell the Rev2 if needed, I can work with three synths or I skip the idea with the P12. Itís a little dilemma, what to do?

The P12 I can get is a desktop, hope I will not miss all the controls the keyboard version have. But people mentioned the workflow is still comfortable and easy. I hope so...

Quote
As much as I liked the REV2 (and I really did), after being used to the Prophet 12 UI, I constantly found myself wishing the REV2 had the same interface, because those little differences between the two make a big difference overall (at least they did for me).


 I understand what you mean!

Quote
The only thing the REV2 has that is hands down MUCH better at than the Prophet 12 is the keybed.

I agree! The keyboard is fantastic. Itís the best in my little studio. The velocity response is great and after touch works flawless. Love the keyboard and I would miss it...


Quote
Hope this helps.

@jazzygb1
Your post helped me a lot! Because you mentioned two most important things. The UI is responsible for a good workflow. I would love to feel comfortable with my instruments and i need also fun to work with them. Second, the sound capabilities are outstanding in the Prophet 12, so many possibilities to experiment with. This synth can get far deep, deeper than most other DSI synths or competitors.

I let you now, how I decide. Right now, Iím in the same situation as I was with the Rev2. I need to be fast with my decision otherwise somebody else will buy this excellent piece of gear...

Thank you so much for your detailed post, very much appreciated!

Cheers! Many greetings from Berlin!
Chandro  :)

/edit
In the last 24hours I spend some time to listen to some of the tracks in the 12 Music thread.
Is it just me what hear different sounds than the typical Prophet sounds? Many of the tracks impressed me especially the beautiful work from @soundquest, this is a way i like to go...
Love also the work of @sacred synthesis!

//edit
Sorry for my basic English , may I used somewhere not the right words but Iím sure you understand what I wanted to tell you.  8)
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 02:00:12 PM by Chandro Ji »
DSI Pro2, Prophet 12 and Prophet Rev2 Keyboards, Waldorf Blofeld, Elektron Analog Four, Digitone, Analog Four, Synthstrom Deluge, Roli Seaboard
iPad Pro, Auria Pro, FabFilters, Eventide Blackhole and more great music apps. :)

Re: Would you add a P12 to a Pro2 and REV2?
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2019, 03:36:16 AM »
So I decided to go with the Prophet 12!
I hope it was not a mistake...  8)

The P12 Desktop is already on my table, I got him a half hour ago. Now testing and exploring...
Itís a very handy device and quite small. Itís good because it will save some space on my workspace. The first thing surprising me is that the headphone output is quite low, is this normal? I connected a DT880 with just 80 Om but even my iPhone sounds louder.

Anyway, now Iím a proud owner of a Prophet 12 and I hope I will have a lot of fun while tweaking great sounds with it.

Btw, it seems that I have one of the earliest devices , serial number 00011. Hope everything was ok in this series?

Thanks again for all your help, recommendations and advices.
If you have any tips for a P12 newbie like me, please let me know!

 :)
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 04:28:17 AM by Chandro Ji »
DSI Pro2, Prophet 12 and Prophet Rev2 Keyboards, Waldorf Blofeld, Elektron Analog Four, Digitone, Analog Four, Synthstrom Deluge, Roli Seaboard
iPad Pro, Auria Pro, FabFilters, Eventide Blackhole and more great music apps. :)

Re: Would you add a P12 to a Pro2 and REV2?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2019, 05:36:22 AM »
One more photo!
It looks like a nice DSI Workstation... :)
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 05:39:14 AM by Chandro Ji »
DSI Pro2, Prophet 12 and Prophet Rev2 Keyboards, Waldorf Blofeld, Elektron Analog Four, Digitone, Analog Four, Synthstrom Deluge, Roli Seaboard
iPad Pro, Auria Pro, FabFilters, Eventide Blackhole and more great music apps. :)

Tonda

Re: Would you add a P12 to a Pro2 and REV2?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2019, 09:19:22 AM »
So I decided to go with the Prophet 12!

Congratulations!

Check this topic, very valuable tips!
https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,584.0.html

Most synthesizers have a rather weak headphone output.
I suggest to use the headphone output of a mixer or your audio interface.

Have fun with your P12!

Re: Would you add a P12 to a Pro2 and REV2?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2019, 11:32:45 AM »
Thank you @Tonda!  :)

I have a first question/problem:

I just paired the P12 with the Pro2.
Many Pro2 knobs communicate already with the right parameters on the P12 but the P12 display doesnít switch automatically to the right page while tweaking the Pro2 knobs (e.g. Envelopes). I can hear the changes but I need to activate the right Display on P12 by hand to see the changes.

Is there a way to activate these parameter displays automatically when I turn a knob on the Pro2?
This would very useful!
DSI Pro2, Prophet 12 and Prophet Rev2 Keyboards, Waldorf Blofeld, Elektron Analog Four, Digitone, Analog Four, Synthstrom Deluge, Roli Seaboard
iPad Pro, Auria Pro, FabFilters, Eventide Blackhole and more great music apps. :)

Tonda

Re: Would you add a P12 to a Pro2 and REV2?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2019, 12:00:46 PM »
Is there a way to activate these parameter displays automatically when I turn a knob on the Pro2?

I don't think it is possible...

The communication between the two devices is done using CC or NRPN messages. As a software developer I can imagine that the activation of the right display only will be triggered by pressing the buttons on the device itself.

But to be sure the best thing to do is contact support.

Re: Would you add a P12 to a Pro2 and REV2?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2019, 12:32:39 PM »
I think you are right @Tonda!
I checked all the global settings on both devices and even in the manuals I canít find a solution.
Anyway, this is not a real problem to activate the displays on the P12...

Thanks a lot for your feedback!  :)
DSI Pro2, Prophet 12 and Prophet Rev2 Keyboards, Waldorf Blofeld, Elektron Analog Four, Digitone, Analog Four, Synthstrom Deluge, Roli Seaboard
iPad Pro, Auria Pro, FabFilters, Eventide Blackhole and more great music apps. :)

Re: Would you add a P12 to a Pro2 and REV2?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2019, 06:08:33 PM »
So I decided to go with the Prophet 12!
I hope it was not a mistake...  8)

The P12 Desktop is already on my table, I got him a half hour ago. Now testing and exploring...
Itís a very handy device and quite small. Itís good because it will save some space on my workspace. The first thing surprising me is that the headphone output is quite low, is this normal? I connected a DT880 with just 80 Om but even my iPhone sounds louder.

Anyway, now Iím a proud owner of a Prophet 12 and I hope I will have a lot of fun while tweaking great sounds with it.

Btw, it seems that I have one of the earliest devices , serial number 00011. Hope everything was ok in this series?

Thanks again for all your help, recommendations and advices.
If you have any tips for a P12 newbie like me, please let me know!

 :)


Great choice! :)
I hope you enjoy using it, I think it's a truly wonderful synth.
If it doesn't work out for you just sell it on, but I'm sure it will.
I've a few videos on youtube which may help you with some basic programming...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t-TOL7EE3Y&list=PLM6cuuZiO1ohjRVN1etVQMq6n0wikWytE
Enjoy!  8)

Re: Would you add a P12 to a Pro2 and REV2?
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2019, 03:53:13 AM »
Hui!
After 24 hours I can already say the P12 was a good buy for me!  :)

I didnít explored the whole synth in this short time but I got the idea what is possible in sound design. I downloaded the additional FM presets and the fantastic Jeannysís Genius Banks from @silvain. The overall sound impressions makes me smile, so many great patches . I had a lot of fun playing around with some of them.

There is absolutely a difference to hear these sounds compared to the Rev2. Both synths sounding great but the P12 sounds more versatile. This synth seems capable for many music styles. Now I can understand what some people say, that the P12 is a sounddesigners dream.

Iím very happy with this purchase! Now I hope that I will be capable to design my own Sounds one day.

Do you think it would be a good investment to buy this Soundtower Patch-Editor? Or would I learn the synth better when I tweak everything on the device itself? Btw, I hope Iím able to cleanup and reorder the User patches with this editor?

Thanks to all in this thread, I appreciated all your comments!  :)
DSI Pro2, Prophet 12 and Prophet Rev2 Keyboards, Waldorf Blofeld, Elektron Analog Four, Digitone, Analog Four, Synthstrom Deluge, Roli Seaboard
iPad Pro, Auria Pro, FabFilters, Eventide Blackhole and more great music apps. :)

Re: Would you add a P12 to a Pro2 and REV2?
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2019, 12:53:17 AM »
Hey Chandro, as a pro2 owner I was lurking over that exact same offer of the module as well.
Happy you took the bullet to stop my GAS and that you enjoy the synth.!

You can already manage the user (and to some degree the factory) patches by entering the secondary global menu, on pro2 and prophet 12 keyboard this can be done by holding both octave down and up and pressing global. For the module there has to be a similiar combination. In said menu you can transport any range of patches from one bank to another and even overwrite the factory patches with custom ones.

have fun exploring!


Re: Would you add a P12 to a Pro2 and REV2?
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2019, 09:10:07 AM »
Hi Mr.Dezent!
So I was lucky that you donít grabbed it!
At this price I was thinking I need to be fast otherwise somebody else would grab it.

It was a good buy and the P12 sounds better than I expected.

Today I got also the sountower editor. One thing I really like , that the editor shows me all patch setting so I can re-engineering how the sounds was created. Second, itís a good tool to save, reorder and organise all the banks and patches.

Now, I need to learn more about the P12. Hope i find a easy way to create my own stuff...

Many greetings from Berlin!
DSI Pro2, Prophet 12 and Prophet Rev2 Keyboards, Waldorf Blofeld, Elektron Analog Four, Digitone, Analog Four, Synthstrom Deluge, Roli Seaboard
iPad Pro, Auria Pro, FabFilters, Eventide Blackhole and more great music apps. :)

Re: Would you add a P12 to a Pro2 and REV2?
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2019, 12:25:29 PM »
Actually, the sounds of the demo rely a lot on the FM and the wavetables, you don't have them on the Rev2 and you have them on the Pro-2, but in mono only :p

I guess many tricks on your Pro-2 will work on the P'12.

Here's my favorite work made with my P'12, the kind of stuff you'll make only on a P'12 or a Poly Evolver with their four modulable delay lines :)
https://soundcloud.com/thedisease/dusk

Re: Would you add a P12 to a Pro2 and REV2?
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2019, 10:49:23 AM »

I guess many tricks on your Pro-2 will work on the P'12.

Here's my favorite work made with my P'12, the kind of stuff you'll make only on a P'12 or a Poly Evolver with their four modulable delay lines :)
https://soundcloud.com/thedisease/dusk

Thanks a lot for your feedback @Mr Kay!

Is this just one layered patch you have used for the track?
Nice tune!  :)
DSI Pro2, Prophet 12 and Prophet Rev2 Keyboards, Waldorf Blofeld, Elektron Analog Four, Digitone, Analog Four, Synthstrom Deluge, Roli Seaboard
iPad Pro, Auria Pro, FabFilters, Eventide Blackhole and more great music apps. :)