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Mellotron pack

Mellotron pack
« on: July 09, 2019, 05:23:13 AM »
If you downloaded the Mellotron pack I created I am requesting you delete it. Thanks for your cooperation.

Gerry Havinga

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Re: Mellotron pack
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2019, 07:32:30 AM »
I didn't download them, was wondering about rights and all that. Sounds to me you did the sensible thing. Sorry to see this happening.

Lets get back to creating original sounds again. I wish I had more time, work is killing all my free time at the moment.
Prophet X, Prophet Rev2 and Evolver desktop, Waldorf Blofeld, Roland System-1, Nord Rack 2, Akai S5000, Dato DUO, Elektron Digitone, Deepmind12D, Schrittmacher, Bitwig v3. Daw-less...
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Re: Mellotron pack
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2019, 08:09:40 AM »
I didn't download them, was wondering about rights and all that. Sounds to me you did the sensible thing. Sorry to see this happening.

Lets get back to creating original sounds again. I wish I had more time, work is killing all my free time at the moment.

Well you learn something new everyday. Sticking with my hardware.

Re: Mellotron pack
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2019, 12:16:30 PM »
This is why I asked about copyright issues with samples in this forum. I imagine there can be a potential problem with uploading some samples.

Re: Mellotron pack
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2019, 02:06:22 PM »
This is why I asked about copyright issues with samples in this forum. I imagine there can be a potential problem with uploading some samples.

What do you “own” and what don’t you “own” and how can you use it? A question that I don’t have the legal training  to answer. I always thought if you aren’t selling it or using it commercially you are good with sampling anything. Guess I was wrong. Luckily it is a small group of us here and there were barely any downloads (less than 15) of it before we pulled it. Plus, they are locked to the PX since it is a proprietary sample format and you can’t extract the samples inside. So hopefully folks delete it like I requested and I can put this chapter to bed. I didn’t intend any harm it was all done out of love of the PX, this community and the sound of that lovely instrument. That said I love Mellotron, Streetly and G-Force so maybe they will see the demand for their work on the PX and make something. They are welcome to the PX samples I created and I think they would sell a lot.

Re: Mellotron pack
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2019, 02:36:19 PM »
What do you “own” and what don’t you “own” and how can you use it? A question that I don’t have the legal training  to answer. I always thought if you aren’t selling it or using it commercially you are good with sampling anything. Guess I was wrong.

Taken to an extreme, it should be obvious why this isn’t the case.  What would happen if you could buy an album, create one long sample of the whole thing, and then give it away?  I’m sure there’s a complex web of legal precedent over what is protected to encourage artists to create and what is considered fair use of their creative work.

Quote
... they are locked to the PX since it is a proprietary sample format and you can’t extract the samples inside.

That’s the case with instruments created using 8Dio’s utility, but PXToolkit creates unencrypted .zip archives for its instruments as this is the only option for third party utilities currently supported by Sequential.  Just FYI.  The embedded WAV files have all metadata stripped, so things like the root note and sample points are no longer present as part of the .wav files, but the raw sample content is there.

Shaw

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Re: Mellotron pack
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2019, 03:03:16 PM »
What do you “own” and what don’t you “own” and how can you use it? A question that I don’t have the legal training  to answer. I always thought if you aren’t selling it or using it commercially you are good with sampling anything. Guess I was wrong.

Taken to an extreme, it should be obvious why this isn’t the case.  What would happen if you could buy an album, create one long sample of the whole thing, and then give it away?  I’m sure there’s a complex web of legal precedent over what is protected to encourage artists to create and what is considered fair use of their creative work.


It's a very long continuum of examples for copyright of recorded works (which carries over into discussions of sample based synths -- hardware or software), and I'm not a copyright lawyer, but let's consider 2 examples from this continuum that are closer to one another factually:


1. You rip samples from a Mellotron (or software instruments thereof).  Doing nothing but copy and distribute.  Obviously not allowed.


2. You sample a Mellotron instrument, clean the samples up with a tool like iZotope RX, then import those samples into an instrument like the PX where you add modulation, filtering, layering with other sounds, and then effects.  THEN you sample THAT creation and distribute (for free or commercially).  One could easily argue that you're on solid ground there because your creation is so far removed from the original "recordings".  There's a legal analysis at work here which is more complicated than I'm presenting, but you get the idea...


Here's one problem.  Copyright law isn't "black and white" -- like many areas of the law, it cannot be.  With copyright law there exists the law's competing interests of protecting creative works while allowing space for more creative works.


Here's another problem.  Copyright attorneys are paid hourly.  In my second example, the Mellotron guys could still feel like you've infringed upon their work and find a copyright lawyer to file suit (even if they aren't likely to win) -- as Lady Gaia pointed out: anyone can sue anyone for anything.   



[/quote]
« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 03:05:42 PM by Shaw »
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: Mellotron pack
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2019, 06:23:13 PM »
What do you “own” and what don’t you “own” and how can you use it? A question that I don’t have the legal training  to answer. I always thought if you aren’t selling it or using it commercially you are good with sampling anything. Guess I was wrong.

Taken to an extreme, it should be obvious why this isn’t the case.  What would happen if you could buy an album, create one long sample of the whole thing, and then give it away?  I’m sure there’s a complex web of legal precedent over what is protected to encourage artists to create and what is considered fair use of their creative work.


It's a very long continuum of examples for copyright of recorded works (which carries over into discussions of sample based synths -- hardware or software), and I'm not a copyright lawyer, but let's consider 2 examples from this continuum that are closer to one another factually:


1. You rip samples from a Mellotron (or software instruments thereof).  Doing nothing but copy and distribute.  Obviously not allowed.


2. You sample a Mellotron instrument, clean the samples up with a tool like iZotope RX, then import those samples into an instrument like the PX where you add modulation, filtering, layering with other sounds, and then effects.  THEN you sample THAT creation and distribute (for free or commercially).  One could easily argue that you're on solid ground there because your creation is so far removed from the original "recordings".  There's a legal analysis at work here which is more complicated than I'm presenting, but you get the idea...


Here's one problem.  Copyright law isn't "black and white" -- like many areas of the law, it cannot be.  With copyright law there exists the law's competing interests of protecting creative works while allowing space for more creative works.


Here's another problem.  Copyright attorneys are paid hourly.  In my second example, the Mellotron guys could still feel like you've infringed upon their work and find a copyright lawyer to file suit (even if they aren't likely to win) -- as Lady Gaia pointed out: anyone can sue anyone for anything.   



[/quote]

All makes sense. Let’s hope that isn’t the case and they and they can be reasonable about it considering the very few distributed copies before it was removed and also hoping most will delete.

Thanks for the update Lady Gaia. I didn’t know that. When I clicked on the zip it asked me for a username and password.