My (positive) opinion on the capability of the Rev2 to sound "classic"

CPN37

*warning - long post incoming*

Apologies for using the word "classic" (so subjective in many ways) in the title, but I thought that having spent a couple of weeks with my new Rev2 that I'd share my thoughts on the topic of "the Rev2 sounds harsh" / "get a Prophet 6 if you want that warm analogue sound". The reason being there is quite a lot of discussion on this around the internet and it was a topic that as a potential buyer I was wary of myself, and so I thought that maybe sharing my thoughts in a post may help any future waverers decide either way.

To add a bit of context, my reason for wanting a new synth was that I wanted to replace my old Sequential Pro One (still working away!) for live work for a particular project. I basically needed a synth that could do everything the Pro One can do, and more. What I love (admittedly fairly simple) about the Pro One is the sound of those 2 *almost* in tune oscillators going in and out of phase in that warm sort of heathaze way, then add a bit of medium to slow LFO to the Osc Frequencies and with the Cutoff set not too high and a little reverb you can get some lovely mellow sounds reminiscent of Eno's Another Green World or Before and After Science or Harmonia etc. Also I often "tricked" the Pro One into a sort of polyphony by setting the Arpeggiator at a high rate and holding down more than one note so that a kind of stuttered chord was made, but the stutter wouldn't continue when only playing one note - I wanted an Arpeggiator that behaved in the same way. I thought Sequential / DSI would be a good place to start as surely their instruments must still contain some of the Pro One DNA, and I was excited to be able to take advantage of such "modern" (remember I'm coming from using a 1981 monosynth here!) features as polyphony, fx and splits and stacks, oh and patch memory! ;D I was particularly keen on the idea of splitting the keyboard so I could say play monosynth bass on the left and then play chords via the Layer B output -> my Kaoss Pad for chords / leads etc.

I was aware that although the Rev2 had the more numerous modulation capabilities, and of course the stack/split feature,  that there was some talk of it sounding harsh, and if I wanted to achieve that old school analogue sound I'd be better off going with the Prophet 6. Watching some of the reviews and other related vids on YouTube I did think myself that the Rev2 had a sort of harshness to it - sort of harsh metallic-brassy with lots of brittle reverb. I decided in the end to take the chance and go for the Rev2 since I already have some old analogue synths from the 70's-80's which I can still use for recording if I want that sound, and the Rev2 would open things up a lot for me playing live with keyboard splits and fx etc.

Anyway, two weeks later and I'm somewhat relieved to say I'm really happy with the Rev2's ability to get those sounds I was after. I'm able to start with a basic patch in Unison mode (set to '1 Voice') and get those two DCOs (which of course are analogue oscillators just pitched by a digital clock) going in and out of phase in that same heathaze-y way either with a little Fine Tune or Slop, dial back the Cutoff a little and add some LFO and I'm straight in that very Sequential-sounding Pro One land, now with added reverb. I also spent some time testing the Rev2 by having a go at making some older sounds like the Prophet 5 patch in Genesis' Man On The Corner / Phil Collins' In The Air Tonight which to my ears I've got sounding exactly right; also Tony Banks' organ patch he made on his Prophet 10, based on the first 4 drawbars of his Hammond, again I've got that sounding just right. I made a very convincing Solina String Synth sound by using the Shape Mod to thin out the sawtooths and stack a version of the Solina Violin preset over the Solina Horn patch on Layer B. I even had a go at the previously-unprogrammable 'Fuzz Guitar 1' preset off the ARP Pro Soloist, the Rev2 can get pretty close, closest I've heard other than on my Pro Soloist! And thankfully the Arpeggiator works in the same way so I can do my old Pro One trick.

And maybe herein lies some kind of contributory factor to this topic - most of those "old school" analogue sounds are fairly simple really - often maybe just using a couple of oscillators, an LFO and a Filter Envelope. And of course all the promotional vids for the Rev2 are naturally going to be trying to show off as many of the features - the massive mod matrix, the splits, the FX etc. That plus the very real possibility that many of the presets / reviewers etc are informed by certain genres of music that I'm not interested in, and well you can end up with a very different take on a synth that basically has so many capabilities. I tend to gravitate towards more mellow / 'rural' synth sounds as opposed to brash urban sounds, even on the Pro One and my other old synths I'll never have the Cutoff up too high. Anyway, what I'm saying is - don't be fooled by the presets, or indeed the sound of the Rev2 with all it's engines firing at once - dial things back a little and program how you would "back in the day" for want of a better phrase (I am more into these sounds from a taste point of view btw, not nostalgia!), and the sounds are easily attainable, and sound great to me. Also I should say that the fact that the Rev2 is capable of so much more than these basic old school sounds, harsh sounding or not, is really exciting to me and I'm looking forward to exploring the extended mod matrix etc.

I also wonder if maybe some of the people who don't like the sound of the Rev2 are used to a more Moogy type sound whether through hardware or VSTs, and Sequential doesn't fit with their idea of "warm" or whatever - anyway, all speculation and of course everyone has their own taste, each to their own and for their own reasons. I'm also sure the Prophet 6 sounds great with its VCOs and filter; but happy to say here that I'm glad I went with the Rev2. The split/layering capabilities plus all the other features are going to be a massive benefit for my live work, and also I can still get those "classic" sounds if I want to.
Sequential Prophet 5 Rev4, Sequential Circuits Pro One, Sequential Prophet Rev2-8, Minimoog, ARP Pro Soloist, Roland Jupiter 4, Roland Juno 60

nickcarlisle.bandcamp.com

Totally agree on your observations!...  The Rev2 is capable of sounding as warm as any classic synth out there. 

After spending years on forums wading through the subjective comments that people have on synth character (ie:  "harsh", "cold", "warm", "fat", "lush", "organic", "metallic", etc..), I set out late last year to try and find what objective observations can be made that people may attribute those characterizations to.   

Some observations documented in these articles:
http://www.voicecomponentmodeling.com
https://www.presetpatch.com/articles/all

The voice-by-voice offsets, in my opinion, present the biggest difference between "classic synths" and more modern counterparts.   Given similar architecture/filter types, often the biggest measurable difference in output will be the natural phasing and temporal variance that occurs because of imperfections from voice to voice.   The general design philosophy for most synths is to "build a great single voice architecture", and then identically duplicate that voice architecture to create polyphony... and that makes total sense.   But if you analyze older synths, they have significant differences from voice to voice, due to variations in the electrical components. 

Modern manufacturing has resulted in better electrical tolerances, and better performance match between voices.   This "perfection of voices" is what I believe most people are referring to when they call a synth "harsh" or "cold" sounding...  there is just too much parity between fine tuning and temporal aspects of the output.   But, if you can alter characteristics on a voice-by-voice basis, you can replicate this.   If you haven't already read the "Voice Component Modeling" thread on this forum, check it out...   

If you want to try out some VCM patches... I just released a bank of 128 patches, and uploaded several free patches for the Rev2 that you can download here:
https://www.presetpatch.com/user/CreativeSpiral

Since doing this research and working out the modulation on the Rev2, I have found there are other synths that are capable of Voice-by-Voice modulation offsets.   The Deepmind has a voice number modulation source, which can create some great classic analog sounds.   uHe Diva and SonicProjects OPX both have voice offset controls...   And the new Massive X has a VR (voice random) modulation source.   I've played around with all of them now and created a bunch of custom patches.  The Gated Seq / Mod Matrix method on the Rev2 is the most flexible and capable version of this type of voice modeling.    I'm hoping that Sequential will take it to the next level in future products and expand upon these capabilities...  This message on the forum outlines what I see as an optimal setup:
https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,3449.msg38047.html#msg38047

Anyways, check out the VCM thread if you haven't already, and if you have any questions about the method or setup, lemme know... would be glad to help out. 



OB-X8, Pro 3, P6, Rev2, Take 5, 3rd Wave, Deepmind, PolyBrute, Sub 37
Sound Sets:
https://sounddesign.sellfy.store/
Free Patches:
https://www.PresetPatch.com/user/CreativeSpiral

CPN37

Totally agree on your observations!...  The Rev2 is capable of sounding as warm as any classic synth out there. 

After spending years on forums wading through the subjective comments that people have on synth character (ie:  "harsh", "cold", "warm", "fat", "lush", "organic", "metallic", etc..), I set out late last year to try and find what objective observations can be made that people may attribute those characterizations to.   

Some observations documented in these articles:
http://www.voicecomponentmodeling.com
https://www.presetpatch.com/articles/all

The voice-by-voice offsets, in my opinion, present the biggest difference between "classic synths" and more modern counterparts.   Given similar architecture/filter types, often the biggest measurable difference in output will be the natural phasing and temporal variance that occurs because of imperfections from voice to voice.   The general design philosophy for most synths is to "build a great single voice architecture", and then identically duplicate that voice architecture to create polyphony... and that makes total sense.   But if you analyze older synths, they have significant differences from voice to voice, due to variations in the electrical components. 

Modern manufacturing has resulted in better electrical tolerances, and better performance match between voices.   This "perfection of voices" is what I believe most people are referring to when they call a synth "harsh" or "cold" sounding...  there is just too much parity between fine tuning and temporal aspects of the output.   But, if you can alter characteristics on a voice-by-voice basis, you can replicate this.   If you haven't already read the "Voice Component Modeling" thread on this forum, check it out...   

If you want to try out some VCM patches... I just released a bank of 128 patches, and uploaded several free patches for the Rev2 that you can download here:
https://www.presetpatch.com/user/CreativeSpiral

Since doing this research and working out the modulation on the Rev2, I have found there are other synths that are capable of Voice-by-Voice modulation offsets.   The Deepmind has a voice number modulation source, which can create some great classic analog sounds.   uHe Diva and SonicProjects OPX both have voice offset controls...   And the new Massive X has a VR (voice random) modulation source.   I've played around with all of them now and created a bunch of custom patches.  The Gated Seq / Mod Matrix method on the Rev2 is the most flexible and capable version of this type of voice modeling.    I'm hoping that Sequential will take it to the next level in future products and expand upon these capabilities...  This message on the forum outlines what I see as an optimal setup:
https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,3449.msg38047.html#msg38047

Anyways, check out the VCM thread if you haven't already, and if you have any questions about the method or setup, lemme know... would be glad to help out.

Thanks Creativespiral, I’m going to check out your thread in the morning, sounds very interesting. Those little imperfections do give character!
Sequential Prophet 5 Rev4, Sequential Circuits Pro One, Sequential Prophet Rev2-8, Minimoog, ARP Pro Soloist, Roland Jupiter 4, Roland Juno 60

nickcarlisle.bandcamp.com

*warning - long post incoming*

Apologies for using the word "classic" (so subjective in many ways) in the title, but I thought that having spent a couple of weeks with my new Rev2 that I'd share my thoughts on the topic of "the Rev2 sounds harsh" / "get a Prophet 6 if you want that warm analogue sound". The reason being there is quite a lot of discussion on this around the internet and it was a topic that as a potential buyer I was wary of myself, and so I thought that maybe sharing my thoughts in a post may help any future waverers decide either way.

To add a bit of context, my reason for wanting a new synth was that I wanted to replace my old Sequential Pro One (still working away!) for live work for a particular project. I basically needed a synth that could do everything the Pro One can do, and more. What I love (admittedly fairly simple) about the Pro One is the sound of those 2 *almost* in tune oscillators going in and out of phase in that warm sort of heathaze way, then add a bit of medium to slow LFO to the Osc Frequencies and with the Cutoff set not too high and a little reverb you can get some lovely mellow sounds reminiscent of Eno's Another Green World or Before and After Science or Harmonia etc. Also I often "tricked" the Pro One into a sort of polyphony by setting the Arpeggiator at a high rate and holding down more than one note so that a kind of stuttered chord was made, but the stutter wouldn't continue when only playing one note - I wanted an Arpeggiator that behaved in the same way. I thought Sequential / DSI would be a good place to start as surely their instruments must still contain some of the Pro One DNA, and I was excited to be able to take advantage of such "modern" (remember I'm coming from using a 1981 monosynth here!) features as polyphony, fx and splits and stacks, oh and patch memory! ;D I was particularly keen on the idea of splitting the keyboard so I could say play monosynth bass on the left and then play chords via the Layer B output -> my Kaoss Pad for chords / leads etc.

I was aware that although the Rev2 had the more numerous modulation capabilities, and of course the stack/split feature,  that there was some talk of it sounding harsh, and if I wanted to achieve that old school analogue sound I'd be better off going with the Prophet 6. Watching some of the reviews and other related vids on YouTube I did think myself that the Rev2 had a sort of harshness to it - sort of harsh metallic-brassy with lots of brittle reverb. I decided in the end to take the chance and go for the Rev2 since I already have some old analogue synths from the 70's-80's which I can still use for recording if I want that sound, and the Rev2 would open things up a lot for me playing live with keyboard splits and fx etc.

Anyway, two weeks later and I'm somewhat relieved to say I'm really happy with the Rev2's ability to get those sounds I was after. I'm able to start with a basic patch in Unison mode (set to '1 Voice') and get those two DCOs (which of course are analogue oscillators just pitched by a digital clock) going in and out of phase in that same heathaze-y way either with a little Fine Tune or Slop, dial back the Cutoff a little and add some LFO and I'm straight in that very Sequential-sounding Pro One land, now with added reverb. I also spent some time testing the Rev2 by having a go at making some older sounds like the Prophet 5 patch in Genesis' Man On The Corner / Phil Collins' In The Air Tonight which to my ears I've got sounding exactly right; also Tony Banks' organ patch he made on his Prophet 10, based on the first 4 drawbars of his Hammond, again I've got that sounding just right. I made a very convincing Solina String Synth sound by using the Shape Mod to thin out the sawtooths and stack a version of the Solina Violin preset over the Solina Horn patch on Layer B. I even had a go at the previously-unprogrammable 'Fuzz Guitar 1' preset off the ARP Pro Soloist, the Rev2 can get pretty close, closest I've heard other than on my Pro Soloist! And thankfully the Arpeggiator works in the same way so I can do my old Pro One trick.

And maybe herein lies some kind of contributory factor to this topic - most of those "old school" analogue sounds are fairly simple really - often maybe just using a couple of oscillators, an LFO and a Filter Envelope. And of course all the promotional vids for the Rev2 are naturally going to be trying to show off as many of the features - the massive mod matrix, the splits, the FX etc. That plus the very real possibility that many of the presets / reviewers etc are informed by certain genres of music that I'm not interested in, and well you can end up with a very different take on a synth that basically has so many capabilities. I tend to gravitate towards more mellow / 'rural' synth sounds as opposed to brash urban sounds, even on the Pro One and my other old synths I'll never have the Cutoff up too high. Anyway, what I'm saying is - don't be fooled by the presets, or indeed the sound of the Rev2 with all it's engines firing at once - dial things back a little and program how you would "back in the day" for want of a better phrase (I am more into these sounds from a taste point of view btw, not nostalgia!), and the sounds are easily attainable, and sound great to me. Also I should say that the fact that the Rev2 is capable of so much more than these basic old school sounds, harsh sounding or not, is really exciting to me and I'm looking forward to exploring the extended mod matrix etc.

I also wonder if maybe some of the people who don't like the sound of the Rev2 are used to a more Moogy type sound whether through hardware or VSTs, and Sequential doesn't fit with their idea of "warm" or whatever - anyway, all speculation and of course everyone has their own taste, each to their own and for their own reasons. I'm also sure the Prophet 6 sounds great with its VCOs and filter; but happy to say here that I'm glad I went with the Rev2. The split/layering capabilities plus all the other features are going to be a massive benefit for my live work, and also I can still get those "classic" sounds if I want to.

Thank you for your post, I also totally agree! After using this synth over 1 year now I often wonder about statements like "sounding harsh" or "weak bass". If the filter is not completely open and the two oscs are detuned a bit, the sound ist getting smooth. If you want, you can additionally use the saw+tri wave, which is much softer than saw and you can also put just a little bit of resonance, if you want a more filigree sound. The 2 pole filter - sometimes described as useless - for me also adds a bit more 80s feeling, because of it´s brighter sound...
But for me the Rev2 is much more than just a classic synth: Every time I create a new sound, I´m so impressed about the ability of this synth to produce so many completely different sounds but always in an astonishing quality.
I know not one other synth that has this ability.
And for my ears, in the mix the sound appears always smooth and pleasant....
I just wish, that the software would be better: E.g. yesterday I did a midi data dump per accident and found the display doing really crazy things. And there was no option to stop the dump.

CPN37


Thank you for your post, I also totally agree! After using this synth over 1 year now I often wonder about statements like "sounding harsh" or "weak bass". If the filter is not completely open and the two oscs are detuned a bit, the sound ist getting smooth. If you want, you can additionally use the saw+tri wave, which is much softer than saw and you can also put just a little bit of resonance, if you want a more filigree sound. The 2 pole filter - sometimes described as useless - for me also adds a bit more 80s feeling, because of it´s brighter sound...
But for me the Rev2 is much more than just a classic synth: Every time I create a new sound, I´m so impressed about the ability of this synth to produce so many completely different sounds but always in an astonishing quality.
I know not one other synth that has this ability.
And for my ears, in the mix the sound appears always smooth and pleasant....
I just wish, that the software would be better: E.g. yesterday I did a midi data dump per accident and found the display doing really crazy things. And there was no option to stop the dump.

Thanks Camillomuc, yeah I’m getting good bass stuff out of the Rev2, one song in particular I’ve prepared for doing live has a sort of Juno/Jupiter sounding repeated bass using the Arpeggiator and I’m really pleased with the full bassy sound.

A couple of minor quibbles if I had to think of some - and this is probably unfairly coming straight from 1981 Pro One technology/UI to 2019 but “in the olden days” the panel knobs were bigger; the new ones feel good quality however with their size I still sort of feel that the sound is somehow “smaller”- obviously it is not (or if it is, it certainly won’t be connected to the physical size of the controls!), it’s just a strange psychological thing I guess! (Same reason for example that Moog stuck a bigger Cutoff pot knob on their Sub Phatty)

And even more trifling- I wish they’d used the original Prophet font! I feel like they’re missing a trick by not referencing the history / lineage with the typography. A minor complaint but then I’m sure things do somehow have a however small psychological effect.

Anyway, a couple of minor quibbles on an otherwise amazing synth  ;D
Sequential Prophet 5 Rev4, Sequential Circuits Pro One, Sequential Prophet Rev2-8, Minimoog, ARP Pro Soloist, Roland Jupiter 4, Roland Juno 60

nickcarlisle.bandcamp.com