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Prophet X and Prophet 6 overlap?

Prophet X and Prophet 6 overlap?
« on: June 06, 2019, 02:20:12 PM »
Pardon my long-winded post, I actually have a fairly focused question, but want to put it in clear context.  Essentially I want to know if owning a Prophet 6 would simply be redundant to somebody who has a Prophet X - but read on...

I am a guitar player with a newly discovered love for the sound of synths. That is right, this guitar-thrashing-metalheaded-viking is smitten with the instrument he used to always make fun of…

…And now I WANT ONE!  What has the world come to?

I have been doing a ton of research and listening online.  I have sifted through monosynths, polysynths, electric pianos, pure analogs, digitals, ROMplers, workstations, and many virtual instrument plugins – there is so much variety out there!  For my taste though, the Prophet 6 is the best sounding thing I have heard – it just makes me feel electrified and adrenalized when I hear it.  While I have listened to a ton of demo material with the Prophet 6, I have not yet played it personally. 

Now, I have also had a very primal positive reaction to some of the sample-based presets I have heard on the Prophet X, but as with the Prophet 6, while I have listened to as much content as I can find, I have not played it personally. 

The trouble is, I feel my heart is a-flutter for both of them. Given the costs, however, I want to make sure my head gets to vote on the purchases…

The question is: Do I need them both? I understand the vast additional ground the Prophet X might open up with utilization of samples and the innovative analog modulation of them along with the digital oscillators, but how much overlap would the synth voice alone have with the Prophet 6?  Would it be redundant to own both instruments? I understand that the Prophet 6 has analog oscillators, while the Prophet X has digital – though they both have analog filters – could it be that the difference in oscillators is part of the magic I feel in the Prophet 6 sound that I worry might not feel the same with the Prophet X?  Anybody want to delve into a technical explanation for potential differences in digital vs analog in respect to the oscillators, and whether this difference makes the instruments significantly seperate? Does anybody own both the PX and P6, or desire to own both of these – or are you thinking, “Stupid Newb!  Why would anybody need the Prophet 6 if they had a Prophet X?” Part of the problem is I feel like I have not heard much of the synth side of the Prophet X, because naturally the demos focus on the way samples can be modulated because this is the innovative calling card of the X.

Other contextual information:  I am proficient on guitar, but while always improving, my keyboard playing is rudimentary.  I can function well in a MIDI environment with a combination of utilizing my MIDI keyboard, my MIDI guitar, and my MIDI editor (in Cubase Pro).  I am more of a composer as opposed to a performer.  Most of what I write is on the heavier side, and guitar driven, but I am surprised by the direction things go sometimes.  For my guitar and studio set-up I own both analog and digital gear - feeling there are great examples in both realms – and usually find that investing in quality gear, despite the higher cost, is worth it in the end.  I do a lot of work with virtual instruments – and love orchestral strings, brass, and many ethnic instruments.  I actually stumbled into my love for the sound of synths because I accidentally had loaded “Retrologue” (a virtual synth available in Cubase) on a Cello track – and the way it simultaneously harmonized with AND stood apart from the heavy guitar blew me away – and I thought, if this plugin synth sounds good to me, what must the real thing sound like?  And that was the pebble that eventually brought me to the Prophet 6 and Prophet X.

Thanks in advance for any help, personal experience, or advice to share that might apply to the Prophet 6 and Prophet X – or even more generally if you want to give tips to somebody just entering the synth world.

Shaw

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Re: Prophet X and Prophet 6 overlap?
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2019, 02:52:31 PM »
The overlap to a synthesist is minimal.  You may not consider yourself a synthesist yet, but you’re headed that way. Everyone here reading that post can see the signs.   :)


I am also primarily a guitar player. I own the Prophet X and the OB-6 (so I understand the heart of your question), and if you don’t already, you will soon hear the difference between the analog oscillators of the Prophet 6 and the digital ones on the Prophet X.


It’s also more than just the raw sound of the oscillators... the filters are different, and the modulation possibilities between the two synths are also different.  So no, you’re definitely not buying “two of the same”.
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: Prophet X and Prophet 6 overlap?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2019, 06:10:15 PM »
I own both. Completely different. They compliment each other really well.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

Re: Prophet X and Prophet 6 overlap?
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2019, 05:37:56 AM »

Hi,

overlap besides the name is really small, from reading i get the impression you could get happy with either one and both. On soundcloud are some "demos" i made a while ago, link is in the signature.

Some more thoughts:

P6 is THE FUN keyboard synth, some like the OB more but even they acomplish each other more then making redundancy. The Highpass Filter makes very flexible and soundshaping is joy because every parameter is just one grab away after some time this ensures very fast workflow with constant fine/re tuning. (without menu diving/display watching) The second Oscilator can be LFO too and the way the modulation is implemented seems basic at start but there are 3 main sources for the sound: The LFO/Modwheel, the Polymod and Aftertouch all three interact with your keyboarding.
PX is a sampler with stereo filter and a new way (for me) of sample playing. Hardware sampler were edit,play, edit, edit , play, more edit then play and so on. This is playit while edlaying, most things are direct access some are one or two buttons away very thought through in terms of playability. The sound from "Intruments" as the sample engines are called through stereo filters is in combination with the FX an opurtunity that will be explored in the coming years. 2.1 made it even more capable. The Oscillatores are sometimes used but not directly mixed in the sound, just to modulate some Instrument parameters. The Modulation Matrix on the PX is deep.

Hope this helps,

Martin

Re: Prophet X and Prophet 6 overlap?
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2019, 09:50:08 PM »
Thanks for the replies!

I am glad to hear people are using, and happy with, both.

I am thinking of getting the Prophet X, and sharing its keyboard out to the Prophet 6 desktop module.  I really only have room for one keyboard at my music station - so the PX would be used for all my MIDI keyboard needs in my DAW too.

Are there any hidden drawbacks to running the P6 in it’s modular form I should be aware of?

I am also curious about running the synths through my Fractal AxefxIII (this is a great guitar amp/speaker/fx modeler).  May be I better create a new thread on that topic though.

Shaw

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Re: Prophet X and Prophet 6 overlap?
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2019, 10:05:23 PM »
I am thinking of getting the Prophet X, and sharing its keyboard out to the Prophet 6 desktop module.  I really only have room for one keyboard at my music station - so the PX would be used for all my MIDI keyboard needs in my DAW too.
The Prophet X has a really nice Keybed, so using it at a controller for a module like the Prophet 6 makes a lot of sense if you are needing to conserve space. 
Here's another consideration:  I only ever use one synth at a time -- record one, get another.  I suspect your workflow may be similar (maybe not).  Because of this, and because I prefer keyboard versions of instruments instead of modules, I have a "synth closet" where I keep synths not in use.  The closet is essentially a rack shelving unit with the synths in protective keyboard bags to keep them dust free.


Are there any hidden drawbacks to running the P6 in it’s modular form I should be aware of?

None.  The P6 module can do everything that keyboard version can do.


I am also curious about running the synths through my Fractal AxefxIII (this is a great guitar amp/speaker/fx modeler).  May be I better create a new thread on that topic though.

I run synths through the AxeIII from time to time...  using stereo inputs #3 or #4 on the back.  As long as you set your input level in the AxeIII settings accordingly, you are fine.  When doing so, I generally have the multi-band compressor as the first effect block just to even things out...  Anyway, the AxeIII works wonderfully with synths.
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

ddp

Re: Prophet X and Prophet 6 overlap?
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2019, 10:39:11 PM »
I think they're both awesome and the Prophet 6 probably has more soul.  The only reason I sold mind is that I do play piano and the lack of polyphony just didn't cut it.  But what I loved was that everything was on the panel.  Were you to add the Nord Lead 3 LED ring knobs, we'd have nirvana.
Buchla, Polyend, Moog One, Prophet X, MP11SE

Re: Prophet X and Prophet 6 overlap?
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2019, 10:41:24 PM »
I am also curious about running the synths through my Fractal AxefxIII (this is a great guitar amp/speaker/fx modeler).  May be I better create a new thread on that topic though.

It could be a fun thread.  I've had great results running the Prophet X through a Helix Floor unit.  Something about having an expression pedal and foot switches controlling effects makes for a really compelling companion.

Re: Prophet X and Prophet 6 overlap?
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2019, 08:21:44 AM »
Hi all. I think I was registered on this forum a while back but it must have lapsed, hence the new registration...I wanted to ask a Q on the PX and thought this looked the most suitable thread.

Essentially, what I want to know is how it feels to play quite 'basic' sounds from the sample packs. Let's say the Prophet 5 sample pack as an example. Would the samples feel 'dead' or 'static' if I'm playing them? Can you hear looping of the samples? Same question I guess for the VS waveforms within the PX.

I play a mix of stuff and like the idea of a PX covering new/modern/experimental via the samples as well as vintage/gooey via a few select sample packs. If for the sake of argument I'm happy with PX filter/mod matrix, would I be compromising here?

Grateful for any thoughts!

And also @Lady Gaia I must show my appreciation for the awesome work on sampling tools which I hope to make use of soon..!

Re: Prophet X and Prophet 6 overlap?
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2019, 03:33:07 PM »
Hi all. I think I was registered on this forum a while back but it must have lapsed, hence the new registration...I wanted to ask a Q on the PX and thought this looked the most suitable thread.

Essentially, what I want to know is how it feels to play quite 'basic' sounds from the sample packs. Let's say the Prophet 5 sample pack as an example. Would the samples feel 'dead' or 'static' if I'm playing them? Can you hear looping of the samples? Same question I guess for the VS waveforms within the PX.

I play a mix of stuff and like the idea of a PX covering new/modern/experimental via the samples as well as vintage/gooey via a few select sample packs. If for the sake of argument I'm happy with PX filter/mod matrix, would I be compromising here?

Grateful for any thoughts!

And also @Lady Gaia I must show my appreciation for the awesome work on sampling tools which I hope to make use of soon..!

Personally I can't hear any looping on the synth wave form samples, in fact I can't really hear looping that much on any of the samples really...the only ones I found were noticeable were the looped long string samples but even still they are perfectly useable in a mix.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

Re: Prophet X and Prophet 6 overlap?
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2019, 04:13:15 PM »
The Prophet VS samples are identical to the original Prophet VS, so they are indeed single cycle loops with no animation to them.  You bring them to life with performance, modulation, and varioius sound design practices that blend them with other elements.  For more modern samples, the sizable storage afforded by SSDs means that a lot of samples don’t have to have loops at all, but those intended to sustain forever can have very long loops that are far from evident.  The VCO pack content I worked on uses loops in the 8 second range, for instance.  You’d have to hold a note for a long time with nothing else going on to even have a chance of noticing.

Re: Prophet X and Prophet 6 overlap?
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2019, 06:05:48 PM »
And also @Lady Gaia I must show my appreciation for the awesome work on sampling tools which I hope to make use of soon..!

I'm always delighted to hear that PXToolkit is meaningful for folks.  It wound up occupying more of my time than I had originally intended to spend, but once I got started it seemed only natural to follow through. 

Re: Prophet X and Prophet 6 overlap?
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2019, 11:00:43 PM »
Thanks all, that's really good to hear!

Sounds like from a raw osc perspective it shouldn't feel different to play than the source synths. I guess one difference I can think of - if I understand how the PX works correctly - that if you want to glide between notes then you have to pick a single sample key, which might mean less natural variation vs. the sourced synth? Also I guess you can't modulate the waveform in the same way as you might do for the sourced synth.
Sorry to labour this enquiry a bit, it's just buying the PX would mean that's it for me, just want to make sure it could 'proxy' for a true analogue vintage synth well enough for me.

Shaw

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Re: Prophet X and Prophet 6 overlap?
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2019, 11:43:23 PM »
Hi all. I think I was registered on this forum a while back but it must have lapsed, hence the new registration...I wanted to ask a Q on the PX and thought this looked the most suitable thread.

Essentially, what I want to know is how it feels to play quite 'basic' sounds from the sample packs. Let's say the Prophet 5 sample pack as an example. Would the samples feel 'dead' or 'static' if I'm playing them? Can you hear looping of the samples? Same question I guess for the VS waveforms within the PX.

I play a mix of stuff and like the idea of a PX covering new/modern/experimental via the samples as well as vintage/gooey via a few select sample packs. If for the sake of argument I'm happy with PX filter/mod matrix, would I be compromising here?

Grateful for any thoughts!

And also @Lady Gaia I must show my appreciation for the awesome work on sampling tools which I hope to make use of soon..!
The 8dio prophet 5 samples are very well done... are they a replacement for a Prophet 5 or 6?  No.

There is a definite timbral difference between the PX using Prophet 5 samples and a Prophet 6.  Glide? Not the same at all. 

X-mod? Also different.

Essentially, since the only person who knows what sounds you are after is you... you should find a way to sit in front of both synths and compare them against the sounds you hear in your head.
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: Prophet X and Prophet 6 overlap?
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2019, 03:34:47 AM »
Thanks all for the reflections...probably a bit more hands-on experience is needed...!