Novation SUMMIT ?

[blewis]

I preordered a Summit today.

Probably means Sequential will announce something next week. 

[Shaw]

I preordered a Summit today.

Probably means Sequential will announce something next week. 

[LoboLives]

I preordered a Summit today.

Probably means Sequential will announce something next week. 

Hmm you know I actually feel they might not do anything like the Summit. I actually think it's either going to be a mono synth (based on INHALT'S "I KNOW SOMETHING YOU DON'T KNOW" INSTAGRAM POST) or perhaps not even a synth/drum machine at all but a multitrack midi sequencer.

I just can't see them doing something so similar to the Summit this close to it's release....unless they do an updated Poly Evolver with both analog and digital oscillators but with more polyphony and effects....knowing my luck though it won't be blue haha

[raffor]

My Summit arrived last weekend. After 6 years of Prophet-12 I thought to try something new.

[Soundquest]

I preordered a Summit today.

Probably means Sequential will announce something next week. 

Hmm you know I actually feel they might not do anything like the Summit. I actually think it's either going to be a mono synth (based on INHALT'S "I KNOW SOMETHING YOU DON'T KNOW" INSTAGRAM POST) or perhaps not even a synth/drum machine at all but a multitrack midi sequencer.

I just can't see them doing something so similar to the Summit this close to it's release....unless they do an updated Poly Evolver with both analog and digital oscillators but with more polyphony and effects....knowing my luck though it won't be blue haha

Well it turned out our speculation from August was right about the mono.   Hopefully Sequential does eventually put out a big poly.  Meanwhile I've been eyeballing the Summit for some time now.  From what I could gather from watching videos, I felt the Summit was the best poly to come out in recent times in terms of both sounds and features offered for cost.  I took the plunge and sold some equipment I wasn't using much.  So,  I'm only three days in, but I have a lot of nice things to say about this instrument.  I was worried it would overlap my P12 too much, but that's not the case.  Both have their strong points.  More to follow.

[Quatschmacher]

I preordered a Summit today.

Probably means Sequential will announce something next week. 

Hmm you know I actually feel they might not do anything like the Summit. I actually think it's either going to be a mono synth (based on INHALT'S "I KNOW SOMETHING YOU DON'T KNOW" INSTAGRAM POST) or perhaps not even a synth/drum machine at all but a multitrack midi sequencer.

I just can't see them doing something so similar to the Summit this close to it's release....unless they do an updated Poly Evolver with both analog and digital oscillators but with more polyphony and effects....knowing my luck though it won't be blue haha

Well it turned out our speculation from August was right about the mono.   Hopefully Sequential does eventually put out a big poly.  Meanwhile I've been eyeballing the Summit for some time now.  From what I could gather from watching videos, I felt the Summit was the best poly to come out in recent times in terms of both sounds and features offered for cost.  I took the plunge and sold some equipment I wasn't using much.  So,  I'm only three days in, but I have a lot of nice things to say about this instrument.  I was worried it would overlap my P12 too much, but that's not the case.  Both have their strong points.  More to follow.

I’ve been looking hard at this one too but am still holding out for a 5-octave poly from Dave as I love the way his mod matrix works - so easy to program. The Summit was a bit more menu-based.

[OceanMachine]

The only thing I need in my setup is a digital front-end poly, so when a Summit came up new for the same price as the Pro 3 standard edition that I pre-ordered, I jumped on it instead. Not sure when mine will be in though... I suspect my only regret will be if Sequential announces a P12 successor with SSI filters soon.

[Soundquest]

I love the dual filters mode on the Summit where you can adjust the spread between them.  There is a little more menu depth, but not sure how else they'd fit everything in.  There's lots of knobs already.    Only thing that struck me odd so far was that the aftertouch is really stiff.  Maybe they will make a curve adjustment on an OS update.   Need to take up rock climbing or something like that to strengthen my fingers enough to engage it

[Razmo]

Actually, I liked the PEAK when I had it, and I really would like to see them make a desktop version of SUMMIT... But it will probably never happen... I still need a third poly to layer with my Quantum... I could go for the PEAK again, but I honestly want the dual filters and 16 voices.

So I will just have to wait for the next 16v polysynth that is either a hybrid or analog.

[narkosys]

I am contemplating between the Rev2 and the Summit. 

The Rev2 seems to invite you to play it, it has that sexy look.  The Summit seems to look plasticky and cluttered.  But looks do not make the sounds.  The Rev2 has that Fatar keybed where as the Summit has a keybed of somewhat unknown origin. 

For most of the demos that I have seen on the Rev 2, the players seem to use god awful high pitch noise sounds as well as presets reminiscent of the 80s.  I have already lived through that hell of a decade and I really don't want to go back.  I know that some of that is the awful YouTube compression but part of me is wondering if that is all the Rev2 can do in terms of how it sounds.   

I have not been able to find a lot of good Summit videos that demonstrate its sonic capabilities so I am not 100% sure of what it can do.  I do know that the FPGA chips allows you to also do FM and wavetable synthesis.  I am new to this type of deep programming on a synth so this could be a great learning opportunity for me.  Also the three oscillators are a big plus.

As much as I want to go to my local store and try them, I live in the mountains and the nearest stores large enough to maybe carry both are a good 6 hour drive away, one way, through said mountains.  Unfortunately they might carry one or the other at any time but not both (this is from checking their websites and seeing if they have any in stock).

I am looking for deep lush sounds that I can use to make pads as well as play more complex pieces such as those found in the Baroque and Classical eras.  Unfortunately the Moog One is way, way, WAY out of my budget.

I currently have a Kronos which has some great mono and poly engines but it I prefer the tactile feel of turning knobs to create and modulate the sounds.  I am a beginner in this type of synthesis, and as much as I could go with something like the Minilogue Xd, I don't buy and sell my synths like things on the stock market.  I tend to keep them for life which is why I do a lot of research before finally pulling the plug.  My plan is to have the Kronos, a poly synth, and a mono such as the Matrix Brute.

In the end, I am wondering what everyone's impressions are concerning either of these synths, especially those who have owned, or tried, both.  Any pointers to some good videos that really showcase what these boards can do sonically would be much appreciated.             

[Quatschmacher]

I am contemplating between the Rev2 and the Summit. 

The Rev2 seems to invite you to play it, it has that sexy look.  The Summit seems to look plasticky and cluttered.  But looks do not make the sounds.  The Rev2 has that Fatar keybed where as the Summit has a keybed of somewhat unknown origin. 

For most of the demos that I have seen on the Rev 2, the players seem to use god awful high pitch noise sounds as well as presets reminiscent of the 80s.  I have already lived through that hell of a decade and I really don't want to go back.  I know that some of that is the awful YouTube compression but part of me is wondering if that is all the Rev2 can do in terms of how it sounds.   

I have not been able to find a lot of good Summit videos that demonstrate its sonic capabilities so I am not 100% sure of what it can do.  I do know that the FPGA chips allows you to also do FM and wavetable synthesis.  I am new to this type of deep programming on a synth so this could be a great learning opportunity for me.  Also the three oscillators are a big plus.

As much as I want to go to my local store and try them, I live in the mountains and the nearest stores large enough to maybe carry both are a good 6 hour drive away, one way, through said mountains.  Unfortunately they might carry one or the other at any time but not both (this is from checking their websites and seeing if they have any in stock).

I am looking for deep lush sounds that I can use to make pads as well as play more complex pieces such as those found in the Baroque and Classical eras.  Unfortunately the Moog One is way, way, WAY out of my budget.

I currently have a Kronos which has some great mono and poly engines but it I prefer the tactile feel of turning knobs to create and modulate the sounds.  I am a beginner in this type of synthesis, and as much as I could go with something like the Minilogue Xd, I don't buy and sell my synths like things on the stock market.  I tend to keep them for life which is why I do a lot of research before finally pulling the plug.  My plan is to have the Kronos, a poly synth, and a mono such as the Matrix Brute.

In the end, I am wondering what everyone's impressions are concerning either of these synths, especially those who have owned, or tried, both.  Any pointers to some good videos that really showcase what these boards can do sonically would be much appreciated.           

Try this one:
https://youtu.be/GttxY8pjSRM

[OceanMachine]

I owned a REV2 16 voice and currently own a P6. They have the same TP/9S keybed, but for some reason the REV2 is too light for my taste and the P6 feels perfect. I talked to another owner of both and he thought the same thing. It might be that the springs are different, though no one at Sequential has ever confirmed this. I know this is the case with the Studiologic Sledge black edition. The MatrixBrute has a really cheap feeling keybed and it doesn't sound good to my ears. I have no clue why anyone would spend that much on it, especially with the Pro 3 out.

My recommendation considering what you already own is to go with a Sequential VCO synth to really embrace the reason to own analog. They're easier for beginners being that they feature a knob per function and have much larger sweet spots. Also, despite having less modulation options, actually have a wider timbral pallet due to the X-mod/poly-mod sections and state variable/analog high-pass filters (the REV2 has a digital high-pass that cost the layer's only effect). As for the P6 vs OB-6, I owned both briefly to compare the two, yet ended up keeping the P6. Although I would have been happy with either and both sound killer in mono as well.

As for the REV2 vs the Summit, as I said, I have a Summit on order, plus I don't miss the REV2 one bit. For now I can't comment on the Summit, but I think it will fit in nicely where the P6 is lacking. That is, for bells, digital basses, and vocal patches. The types of things your Kronos can handle if you don't mind menu-diving.

[Razmo]

My experience with PEAK and REV2 say, that none really makes up for the other... I felt that even if PEAK did great pads, the REV2 analog oscillators just smear the tone in a more pleasing way, but only if that is what you are after... That is why comparing digital vs. Analog front end gets pretty hard sometimes because I felt the PEAK outperformed REV2 in many other territories... I really wanted both to be honest... I have to stop judging between the digital vs analog frontend, both stand their own right.

Even judging from analog to analog, or hybrid to hybrid you get differencies that boils down to just that... Being different, both having their own place.

Problem comes when you can only choose one of them... I would hate to choose between REV2 and PEAK... Between REV2 and P6/OB6 too because even if the raw tone of the two later would probably be considered "better" it again boils down to what you want from them... REV2 will kick their butt in both polyphony and engine depth anytime, while the two others will make even REV2 sound sterile... Also, if you absolutely want the most advanced Curtis chip synth ever created, I think REV2/Prophet 12 will fight in vain to claim that title... Probably for a veeeery long time now, as that chip has had its 15 minutes with Sequential/DSI, and I do not think we will see another poly curtis synth from them ever again. So if you ever wanted to have a curtis poly in your rig, now could not be a better time, and no... You will need them both because both Prophet12 and REV2 share 1st place I feel. For different reasons.

Compared to REV2, PEAK and SUMMIT will sound more defined, more strong in controlling the cardboard of your speakers... It sounds more pristine... So much it cannot relax, and smudge in a more oldschool analog way... You may not notice alone, but as soon as you start playing REV2 pads, strings and atmospheres, you hear the differencies emidiately.

[Razmo]

Besides... If we compare the three big hybrids available right now this is my current pickings(I have had them all, except SUMMIT) :

1. PROPHET 12
2. QUANTUM
3. PEAK/SUMMIT

all would have their own thing making it worth having them all. They all sport different analog filters setting them appart in character emidiately. Sonically i like the PEAK/SUMMIT front end best because of the pristine FPGA front end they have... This really makes them special because they then have the lowest concern for aliasing, even at audio rate modulation like Ringmod, FM etc. The looser here is PROPHET 12... The most boring and unflexible of the analog filters... Best filter is undoubtedly the Quantum's... It does a great job at removing aliasing too, but it still has that typical Blofeldish tone to its frontend.

Enginewise, the winner is Quantum, hands down, no option for any arguing. Second is PROPHET 12 as its engine is just deeper than PEAK or SUMMIT, and has that audio rate mod matrix... Unfortunately PROPHET 12, suffer from a rough tone when you start to audio rate modulate things because its update frequency is simply too slow to handle aliasing well enough... Still, it does not sound bad, it is just something to notice.

So all in all... If Quantum had just had an FPGA front end with the pristine quality of the SUMMIT or PEAK, then Quantum would have wiped the others off in about any category imaginable.

So my order of these three would be 1. QUANTUM, 2. SUMMIT, 3. PEAK, 4. PROPHET 12.

In categories:

Front end Audio quality: PEAK/SUMMIT
Front end flexibility: Quantum
Filter character: Quantum
Engine flexibility: Quantum
Polyphony: SUMMIT
Interface: Quantum
Physical Design: Quantum

also remember that PEAK is not dual timbral... This greatly diminish your sound design options.

Also, there are one more big hybrid, the Modal 002, but I never had a chance at owning one, so I cannot judge it properly.

[Soundquest]

I am contemplating between the Rev2 and the Summit. 

The Rev2 seems to invite you to play it, it has that sexy look.  The Summit seems to look plasticky and cluttered.  But looks do not make the sounds.  The Rev2 has that Fatar keybed where as the Summit has a keybed of somewhat unknown origin......

Narkosys,

I just got done with a weekend marathon with my new Summit.  I can assure you there is nothing cheap or plasticky to the instrument in look or feel.  Yes, there is a lot of knobs, but to my delight.   This can be a very deep instrument and is a sound designers playground.   But that  deepness alone may be the reason there's not a ton of videos yet.  It's going to take some time for the good stuff to surface, just as it did back when P12 was new.  The presets are , well, like any synth I expect,  same ole stuff for the most part.  Some presets are very nice however, and musical.

Very versatile in sound, the filter spreading feature really opens up characters that would otherwise be buried by just HP or just LP for instance.  I'm still getting used to the layout but expect I'll have it down after a few more sessions.    Only real complaint I have is that with multilayer mode, it be nice to be able to copy a patch from layer A to B  or vise versa.  Hopefully an update will amend that ability.   The automatic OS updating and on-line librarian are simplest to use I've ever seen.  Novation seems savvy in this respect and I hope it becomes an industry standard.

[Razmo]

Well... it's official... I'm now on the SUMMIT wagon instead of the PRO3 wagon ... at least for now.

Just ordered a SUMMIT, simply because I got tired of the delivery complications at Thomann... I'm not good with this level of uncertainty, and beside I really think it's better to have a poly synth to layer my Quantum with.

I will still need the analog oscillators and Ladder or SSI filter, so I certainly have my eyes on the PRO3 still, but for now it'll have to wait... that also means that I can watch the PRO3 mature with time, so that I know exactly what to expect when I get one in the future.

I will most likely be connecting my Quantum's AUX output to the inputs of the SUMMIT so that I sometimes can throw the Quantum thru the supperb FPGA reverb on the SUMMIT.

In fact I will be connecting the MIDI out of my Quantum to the SUMMIT MIDI input, so that I will be playing the SUMMIT via Quantum's TP8/S FATAR keybed... this is because I want to see the two synths as a whole, having two layers... Quantum have too few voices to allow for proper dual timbral sounds in my opinion, so now I can layer a 16/8 voice dual layer sound.

I will be layering sequenced sounds a lot with pads and drones, so this is very handy... but since both synths are dual timbral I can actually fire off four simultaneous sequences if I wanted to, at different sequence lengths etc... will be some fun polyrhythmic stuff.

If I want to play them separately it's also quick to set up, and by using USB MIDI I can also sequence them both from my DAW sequencer which may be handy for some rhythmic stuff that needs tight timing.

Now, to complete my TRIAD of synth, it would be really nice if Sequential did a polyphonic VCO/Wavetable synth (16 voices with 2VCO and 2Wavetable)) with the SSI chip that allow for several different configurations of the filter to get as much variation going as possible. An engine as deep as the PRO3 to top it off along with the FX. Then I think I may be satisfied with those three seen as one big 3 layer monster synth.

[Soundquest]

Out of curiosity I was comparing P12 to Summit saw waves on the oscilloscope.  Actually spectrum and shape not much different.  Only when I got to low G and looked at the frequency spectrums side by side could I see a difference.  The P12 had a slightly more elevated db response between 1000-7000 Hz.  I did not see this difference at higher pitches.   To my ears, the Summit at that low G sounded "lower", or bassier, which corresponds to what I saw on the scope.

[Soundquest]

Well I'm finally got out of the phase of trying to compare the Summit to other instruments, and instead, trying to determine what it's unique character will be.  Too early to tell.  Ever notice how that always takes a while to discover what a particular synths defining sound is?  It's like we don't recognize the fashion of the decade until the decade is 10-20 years gone.

OB 6 and Pro 2, PEK and Vermona MK2 just seem to gravitate to their own sound. Their fashions are very defined.    Then there is the P12, who's pallet seems so wide to me.  I'm still not sure I have my finger on it, though when I listen to some good recordings of p12 it does have a unique "bigness" to it.   

 I was expecting myself to be immersed in making double-layered pads on the Summit at first, but instead I've been gravitating to making rock lead keys, sound effects, stuff like that.  Not even sure why.    It seems to do pianos quite well.   With the "quarantine" going on now I suppose I'll have more of a chance at getting a video out there soon. 

I think when I ordered the Summit it was one of the last ones in the American outlets. There was like two left at GC.    Feel bad for razmo and all the other people waiting on this and other gear delayed by the virus.

[OceanMachine]

My problem is finding examples of it online that really showcase the digital side of its nature. We know it can do convincing analog tones, but I want to hear things that would not be possible with strictly analog gear or at least has its own character. I mean, it was pretty darn apparent even at the time during the 80s and 90s what the "fashion" of the decade was. Even if I tried to pinpoint it now, the fashion of the aughts (and 10s), would be no fashion at all. That's what I fear with the Peak/Summit. As I've said in another thread, I played an Esoniq ESQ-1 the other day and was immediately charmed by its character, which is something modern day equivalents seem to lack.

[Sacred Synthesis]

I think the "problem" is that each instrument has such a plethora of capabilities now that they all sound the same because they all do everything.  Companies has given us what we wanted, and now we feel it's too much.  An instrument will have a character or personality due to what it cannot do, which will then limit it to a distinctive and recognizable sonic range.  A one-trick-pony could be a refreshing item in the midst of this abundance.