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Alternate Tuning / Scales editing improvement

Pym

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Alternate Tuning / Scales editing improvement
« on: April 02, 2019, 02:38:35 PM »
After doing some pretty extensive testing of the alternate tunings I noticed that there was a fundamental problem in the way we were calculating the tunings while trying to add editing capabilities to the synth. Specifically, the calculation pushes the note into the alternate tuning table after the mods are calculated, resulting in some unexpected behavior. Although this is clearly an error in implementation, we chose not to roll out a complete fix to production to prevent people who have already grown accustomed to the behavior to have an issue restoring their sounds the way they want. However I thought it was a serious enough issue to warrant a fix.

Please note, the OS is not officially supported and I'm fixing bugs on my own time if any arise. It has already been tested but it is possible some problems will come up. Please back up your work before asking for the OS

Edit: Decided it was just easier to post it here... file is attached

Hold down transpose up and transpose down on the keyboard, or glide/portamento on the module, then hit the arp hold button. That gets you into scale edit mode in the FX section of the keyboard. Hit a key to select a note (or the first encoder) and then use the other 3 encoders to alter tunings for that key. Hit arp hold again to exit scale edit mode and save the scale

Also you can export the currently selected scale over MIDI by holding 'Manual' and hitting button 2

Enjoy!
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 10:48:44 AM by Pym »
Sequential

Re: Alternate Tuning / Scales editing improvement
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2019, 11:55:44 AM »
Pym,

Not sure I understand what you are saying.  But am I safe to say that if I have the update preceding this that my alternate scales are correct?   I didn't notice anything too odd other than the oddness of some of the scales themselves.  In other words, if I do not update are my alternate tuning still viable?
Sequential Equipment: Poly Evolver Keyboard, Evolver desktop,   Pro-2, OB6, P-12
 

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Re: Alternate Tuning / Scales editing improvement
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2020, 03:48:05 PM »
Please note, the OS is not officially supported and I'm fixing bugs on my own time if any arise. It has already been tested but it is possible some problems will come up. Please back up your work before asking for the OS

Is this an actual OS update? If so is it an iteration of the previous beta 1.5.8? Slightly confused as the filename suggests it contains tunings and not an OS.

Thanks!

Re: Alternate Tuning / Scales editing improvement
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2021, 08:59:41 PM »
I think itís an actual OS. Iíve been using it for about a year without any issues, as far as I can tell. The OB6 shows ď9.0.0Ē when it starts up...

@pym I would love to know if these ďscale editing improvementsĒ have been incorporated into the 1.6.4 beta
?

Re: Alternate Tuning / Scales editing improvement
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2021, 11:15:04 AM »
Dear Pym,

I saw this topic only now. Having a keyboard OB-6 upgraded to OS v1.6.6, I can't enter in scale edit mode as you described previously. Is it included in this OS?

Thanks,
Akos

After doing some pretty extensive testing of the alternate tunings I noticed that there was a fundamental problem in the way we were calculating the tunings while trying to add editing capabilities to the synth. Specifically, the calculation pushes the note into the alternate tuning table after the mods are calculated, resulting in some unexpected behavior. Although this is clearly an error in implementation, we chose not to roll out a complete fix to production to prevent people who have already grown accustomed to the behavior to have an issue restoring their sounds the way they want. However I thought it was a serious enough issue to warrant a fix.

Please note, the OS is not officially supported and I'm fixing bugs on my own time if any arise. It has already been tested but it is possible some problems will come up. Please back up your work before asking for the OS

Edit: Decided it was just easier to post it here... file is attached

Hold down transpose up and transpose down on the keyboard, or glide/portamento on the module, then hit the arp hold button. That gets you into scale edit mode in the FX section of the keyboard. Hit a key to select a note (or the first encoder) and then use the other 3 encoders to alter tunings for that key. Hit arp hold again to exit scale edit mode and save the scale

Also you can export the currently selected scale over MIDI by holding 'Manual' and hitting button 2

Enjoy!

Pym

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  • 166
Re: Alternate Tuning / Scales editing improvement
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2021, 12:07:00 PM »
I need to update the custom OS with the new Vintage knob improvements, it's on my list

Dear Pym,

I saw this topic only now. Having a keyboard OB-6 upgraded to OS v1.6.6, I can't enter in scale edit mode as you described previously. Is it included in this OS?

Thanks,
Akos

After doing some pretty extensive testing of the alternate tunings I noticed that there was a fundamental problem in the way we were calculating the tunings while trying to add editing capabilities to the synth. Specifically, the calculation pushes the note into the alternate tuning table after the mods are calculated, resulting in some unexpected behavior. Although this is clearly an error in implementation, we chose not to roll out a complete fix to production to prevent people who have already grown accustomed to the behavior to have an issue restoring their sounds the way they want. However I thought it was a serious enough issue to warrant a fix.

Please note, the OS is not officially supported and I'm fixing bugs on my own time if any arise. It has already been tested but it is possible some problems will come up. Please back up your work before asking for the OS

Edit: Decided it was just easier to post it here... file is attached

Hold down transpose up and transpose down on the keyboard, or glide/portamento on the module, then hit the arp hold button. That gets you into scale edit mode in the FX section of the keyboard. Hit a key to select a note (or the first encoder) and then use the other 3 encoders to alter tunings for that key. Hit arp hold again to exit scale edit mode and save the scale

Also you can export the currently selected scale over MIDI by holding 'Manual' and hitting button 2

Enjoy!
Sequential

Re: Alternate Tuning / Scales editing improvement
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2021, 04:51:37 PM »
Hey Pym,

I just posted another thread about how just intonation scales in the OB-6 have fixed tonics, asking if anyone knows how to change the implied tonic of a scale.

To me, it would be as simple as pitchbending or re pitching to a different key, bit alas, the OB-6 quantizes pitchbend to the fixed just intonation scale tone. There's no way I can take our A-tonic just intonation, for instance, and make it a D-tonic just intonation.

I thought maybe your new OS would address this alt tuning issue, but I don't hear the difference to any notes when I mess around with the numbers in the Scale mode. Also I'm on the OB-6 desktop, not the keyboard.

Can you elaborate on how to use the new alt tuning settings you've made?

Thanks so much,
-Encanti

Re: Alternate Tuning / Scales editing improvement
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2021, 12:52:48 AM »
Pym,
Update: I figured it out! And now i have come to beg for major update suggestion.

When editing a scale, each note number gets a different tuning in steps and cents. Brilliant!
Last night however I spent over an hour changing one of the presets (Carlos just intonation in C) to be just intonation in D. To do this, I had to take all the tuning settings starting at note 60 and transpose them by hand to start at 62 as 1:1.

It would be infinitely more efficient and explorative if there was a scale transpose option built in.
As in- if I could take any scale and move the implied tonic, to make any note 1:1, with all the other notes relatively repitching.

I actually love the built in alt tunings for various just intonations that come with the OB-6, but I find them to be very restrictive only because each alt tuning only represents one implied tonic. (I started another thread about this too, can you tell itís been keeping me up at night? Haha). I want to be able to try the Carlos just intonation using *any key* as 1:1, without needing to manually adjust 128 notes to be the same values as an existing preset except with a different note representing 1:1.
This would save lots of time and would require far less sweat and tears to experiment with different Alt tunings in different keys. I humbly request this be made a feature in a future update.. (unless itís there and Iím not seeing it!)
Thanks again so much for the alt tuning editing mode.

Best,
Encanti

Pym

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Re: Alternate Tuning / Scales editing improvement
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2021, 10:23:03 AM »
Yes it would, but it isn't meant to be an editing surface for large scales. You can edit keys one by one and create custom tunings easily, that was the goal. If you want to do anything more complex, I highly recommend you look into software to do it, the hardware just doesn't have enough of a UI to justify adding more complicated tuning editing

Pym,
Update: I figured it out! And now i have come to beg for major update suggestion.

When editing a scale, each note number gets a different tuning in steps and cents. Brilliant!
Last night however I spent over an hour changing one of the presets (Carlos just intonation in C) to be just intonation in D. To do this, I had to take all the tuning settings starting at note 60 and transpose them by hand to start at 62 as 1:1.

It would be infinitely more efficient and explorative if there was a scale transpose option built in.
As in- if I could take any scale and move the implied tonic, to make any note 1:1, with all the other notes relatively repitching.

I actually love the built in alt tunings for various just intonations that come with the OB-6, but I find them to be very restrictive only because each alt tuning only represents one implied tonic. (I started another thread about this too, can you tell itís been keeping me up at night? Haha). I want to be able to try the Carlos just intonation using *any key* as 1:1, without needing to manually adjust 128 notes to be the same values as an existing preset except with a different note representing 1:1.
This would save lots of time and would require far less sweat and tears to experiment with different Alt tunings in different keys. I humbly request this be made a feature in a future update.. (unless itís there and Iím not seeing it!)
Thanks again so much for the alt tuning editing mode.

Best,
Encanti
Sequential

Re: Alternate Tuning / Scales editing improvement
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2021, 05:24:36 AM »
Hi Pym,
Thank you so much for your reply.

As for the interface: What I'm imagining can be as simple as transpose.
 
User holds down (a button) while in the alt tuning mode, and a number appears in (a number area). The number represents semitone transposition value, which transposes the intonation of the entire scale up or down in semitones from the default tonal center.

Just Intonation in C (+1 transpose semitone) becomes just intonation in C#.

This addition would multiply the usability of the pre-loaded presets (which are in fixed keys) and enormously cut the workload for anyone using ratio-based alt tunings.
For reference, Khyam Allumi's Leimma creates a Scala tuning file for any number of tuning systems, but defining which key will be tonic 1:1 is a clear option of massive importance apart from the pitch ratios themselves: https://isartum.net/

I believe the OB-6 is *almost* the perfect synthesizer and fixing this one issue would set a high example for what alternate tuning options should be! Thank you for your time and consideration.

Best,
Ben




Yes it would, but it isn't meant to be an editing surface for large scales. You can edit keys one by one and create custom tunings easily, that was the goal. If you want to do anything more complex, I highly recommend you look into software to do it, the hardware just doesn't have enough of a UI to justify adding more complicated tuning editing