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Rev2 Sequencer MIDI Out Issue

Rev2 Sequencer MIDI Out Issue
« on: March 26, 2019, 08:32:20 PM »
I recently updated from an old OS to 1.1.5.9. I re-calibrated and restored global settings.

Whenever I send the sequencer MIDI out to another instrument it sounds phase-y as if a double of the MIDI signal is also being sent milliseconds after the original. It will do this for a bit and then suddenly stop working all together. If I try to restart the sequence it plays the first couple notes and stops making noise, but the internal prophet patch continues to play the sequence.

This happens on several different instruments via MIDI and USB

The arp midi out works fine

Thanks in advance for any help

Re: Rev2 Sequencer MIDI Out Issue
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2019, 09:27:50 PM »
I recently updated from an old OS to 1.1.5.9. I re-calibrated and restored global settings.

Whenever I send the sequencer MIDI out to another instrument it sounds phase-y as if a double of the MIDI signal is also being sent milliseconds after the original. It will do this for a bit and then suddenly stop working all together. If I try to restart the sequence it plays the first couple notes and stops making noise, but the internal prophet patch continues to play the sequence.

This happens on several different instruments via MIDI and USB

The arp midi out works fine

Thanks in advance for any help

Sounds like a MIDI loop.  Without knowing how you have everything set up, the easiest solution is to turn Local Control off on your Rev2.

Hopefully that helps you. If not, a more detailed description of your MIDI connections will help troubleshoot.  Hope that helps.
Moog One <> Prophet Rev2 16V <>  Andromeda <> Kronos 61 <> Nord Stage 2 HA76 <> Integra 7 <> Minilogue XD module <> Blofeld desktop <> Behringer Model D <> Minitaur <> Slim Phatty <> Matrix 1000 <> Micron <> Privia PX-5S <>  MODX7 <> TG77 <> ASM Hydrasynth <> Perform VE <> FCB1010

Re: Rev2 Sequencer MIDI Out Issue
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2019, 10:36:01 PM »
I recently updated from an old OS to 1.1.5.9. I re-calibrated and restored global settings.

Whenever I send the sequencer MIDI out to another instrument it sounds phase-y as if a double of the MIDI signal is also being sent milliseconds after the original. It will do this for a bit and then suddenly stop working all together. If I try to restart the sequence it plays the first couple notes and stops making noise, but the internal prophet patch continues to play the sequence.

This happens on several different instruments via MIDI and USB

The arp midi out works fine

Thanks in advance for any help

Sounds like a MIDI loop.  Without knowing how you have everything set up, the easiest solution is to turn Local Control off on your Rev2.

Hopefully that helps you. If not, a more detailed description of your MIDI connections will help troubleshoot.  Hope that helps.
Thanks for the suggestion. When I turn Local Control off, the arp and the sequencer donít send any MIDI out to the instrument.

I have a MIDI cable going straight out of the rev2 to the MIDI in of a korg Kronos. I also tried it via usb to a computer with Keyscape

Re: Rev2 Sequencer MIDI Out Issue
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2019, 06:13:24 AM »
If connecting just to the Kronos, try going USB out of Rev2 to the USB in of the Kronos.  The Kronos doesn't have MIDI thru via USB.

When connecting to other devices, you'll need to disable their MIDI echo. 

Lastly, try disabling MIDI IN on the Rev2 in Global.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 06:15:24 AM by psionic11 »
Moog One <> Prophet Rev2 16V <>  Andromeda <> Kronos 61 <> Nord Stage 2 HA76 <> Integra 7 <> Minilogue XD module <> Blofeld desktop <> Behringer Model D <> Minitaur <> Slim Phatty <> Matrix 1000 <> Micron <> Privia PX-5S <>  MODX7 <> TG77 <> ASM Hydrasynth <> Perform VE <> FCB1010

Re: Rev2 Sequencer MIDI Out Issue
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2019, 11:06:17 AM »
If connecting just to the Kronos, try going USB out of Rev2 to the USB in of the Kronos.  The Kronos doesn't have MIDI thru via USB.

When connecting to other devices, you'll need to disable their MIDI echo. 

Lastly, try disabling MIDI IN on the Rev2 in Global.
Kronos is receiving sequencer MIDI via USB with no echo. Thanks!

My Juno 106 is connected via MIDI directly to the Rev2. It will play the first few notes of the sequence and hold them down forever and not play any other notes. I can't find a way to disable the 106 MIDI echo as you suggested

Re: Rev2 Sequencer MIDI Out Issue
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2019, 04:04:17 PM »
Let's draw out your connections, I'm getting confused.

PC USB out ==> USB in Kronos
Kronos USB host port (you have 2 of these) ==> Rev2 USB
Rev2 MIDI DIN out ==> 106 DIN MIDI in

Correct?  List how everything is connected to everything, and if you leave it like that or change it to do different things.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 04:06:21 PM by psionic11 »
Moog One <> Prophet Rev2 16V <>  Andromeda <> Kronos 61 <> Nord Stage 2 HA76 <> Integra 7 <> Minilogue XD module <> Blofeld desktop <> Behringer Model D <> Minitaur <> Slim Phatty <> Matrix 1000 <> Micron <> Privia PX-5S <>  MODX7 <> TG77 <> ASM Hydrasynth <> Perform VE <> FCB1010

Re: Rev2 Sequencer MIDI Out Issue
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2019, 04:22:28 PM »
Let's draw out your connections, I'm getting confused.

PC USB out ==> USB in Kronos
Kronos USB host port (you have 2 of these) ==> Rev2 USB
Rev2 MIDI DIN out ==> 106 DIN MIDI in

Correct?  List how everything is connected to everything, and if you leave it like that or change it to do different things.
Just MIDI out of rev2 to MIDI in of Juno. No other connections.

Iíve just been testing out each instrument one at a time making sure they work before I decide how to daisy chain.

Re: Rev2 Sequencer MIDI Out Issue
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2019, 07:54:30 PM »
Rev2 MIDI out ==> MIDI in Juno

If that is all you have then you don't have a MIDI loop.

You have 3 possible sound sources:  Rev2 layer A, layer B, and Juno.

At this point I'm not sure how to help you.  Maybe your MIDI cable is bad?  You could try contacting Sequential for support as well if no one else on the forum here has any ideas for you.  Good luck.
Moog One <> Prophet Rev2 16V <>  Andromeda <> Kronos 61 <> Nord Stage 2 HA76 <> Integra 7 <> Minilogue XD module <> Blofeld desktop <> Behringer Model D <> Minitaur <> Slim Phatty <> Matrix 1000 <> Micron <> Privia PX-5S <>  MODX7 <> TG77 <> ASM Hydrasynth <> Perform VE <> FCB1010

maxter

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Re: Rev2 Sequencer MIDI Out Issue
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2019, 05:48:19 AM »
I'd like to help, but you're making it hard to so. Like psionic put it, I'm confused also. I'm sure many, like me, have hesitated answering to this thread because of the lack of details.

In order to get help troubleshooting your problem, you really need to provide all information possible, particularly EVERY connected cable, not just "Rev2 and Juno are connected" etc. By not doing this, you're wasting the time of those who try to help you, and your own as well.

Please be more precise further on, and I'm certain you'll get lots of help from the community sorting out any problem you have. It'll speed up the process of doing so, and be less of a time waster.
The Way the Truth and the Life

Re: Rev2 Sequencer MIDI Out Issue
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2019, 12:30:29 PM »
Rev2 MIDI out ==> MIDI in Juno

If that is all you have then you don't have a MIDI loop.

You have 3 possible sound sources:  Rev2 layer A, layer B, and Juno.

At this point I'm not sure how to help you.  Maybe your MIDI cable is bad?  You could try contacting Sequential for support as well if no one else on the forum here has any ideas for you.  Good luck.
Thanks for everything psionic11! I appreciate all the help. I'll see what support has to say.

Re: Rev2 Sequencer MIDI Out Issue
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2019, 12:35:49 PM »
I'd like to help, but you're making it hard to so. Like psionic put it, I'm confused also. I'm sure many, like me, have hesitated answering to this thread because of the lack of details.

In order to get help troubleshooting your problem, you really need to provide all information possible, particularly EVERY connected cable, not just "Rev2 and Juno are connected" etc. By not doing this, you're wasting the time of those who try to help you, and your own as well.

Please be more precise further on, and I'm certain you'll get lots of help from the community sorting out any problem you have. It'll speed up the process of doing so, and be less of a time waster.
"Just MIDI out of rev2 to MIDI in of Juno. No other connections. " Don't know how much clearer it can get. I mean there's audio out and a power cable connected but it doesn't seem relevant to the issue. But just in case, here's everything that's connected to the rev2.
Rev2 MIDI Out => Juno 106 MIDI In
Rev 2 Stereo Main Audio Out => Mixer
Rev 2 Power Cable => Furman Power

maxter

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Re: Rev2 Sequencer MIDI Out Issue
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2019, 03:11:55 PM »
I meant when you started the thread, sorry if I was unclear.

"This happens on several different instruments via MIDI and USB" -wasn't really saying a lot about any connections.

"it sounds phase-y as if a double of the MIDI signal is also being sent milliseconds after the original" -sounds very much like a midi loop to me

"I have a MIDI cable going straight out of the rev2 to the MIDI in of a korg Kronos"

"My Juno 106 is connected via MIDI directly to the Rev2"

It's not crystal clear to me yet.

As long as nothing is connected to the MIDI in of the Rev2, or USB in of Rev2, you can't really get a midi loop (on the Rev2, that is). That's important information for anyone to be able to help you out. If you have Juno Midi Through connected to something (like the Kronos) and the Kronos connected to the Rev2 via USB, I suppose you could potentially get a midi loop. I don't know the Kronos, but psionic mentioned that it doesn't have midi through via USB, if this means that the Kronos cannot send the data coming into the Kronos midi in to its usb midi out, then a midi loop shouldn't be possible without anything else connected to the Rev2 midi in.

Do you still get this "phase-y" sound from the Rev2 when running sequences? Is it (only) double-triggered on the Rev2? Have you tried running the midi from the Rev2 through a midi monitor to check for any eventual double-triggering?

When having a problem that sounds like a midi loop, it's good to be able to rule that out before considering other possible causes.
The Way the Truth and the Life

Re: Rev2 Sequencer MIDI Out Issue
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2019, 05:42:29 PM »
I meant when you started the thread, sorry if I was unclear.

"This happens on several different instruments via MIDI and USB" -wasn't really saying a lot about any connections.

"it sounds phase-y as if a double of the MIDI signal is also being sent milliseconds after the original" -sounds very much like a midi loop to me

"I have a MIDI cable going straight out of the rev2 to the MIDI in of a korg Kronos"

"My Juno 106 is connected via MIDI directly to the Rev2"

It's not crystal clear to me yet.

As long as nothing is connected to the MIDI in of the Rev2, or USB in of Rev2, you can't really get a midi loop (on the Rev2, that is). That's important information for anyone to be able to help you out. If you have Juno Midi Through connected to something (like the Kronos) and the Kronos connected to the Rev2 via USB, I suppose you could potentially get a midi loop. I don't know the Kronos, but psionic mentioned that it doesn't have midi through via USB, if this means that the Kronos cannot send the data coming into the Kronos midi in to its usb midi out, then a midi loop shouldn't be possible without anything else connected to the Rev2 midi in.

Do you still get this "phase-y" sound from the Rev2 when running sequences? Is it (only) double-triggered on the Rev2? Have you tried running the midi from the Rev2 through a midi monitor to check for any eventual double-triggering?

When having a problem that sounds like a midi loop, it's good to be able to rule that out before considering other possible causes.
The "phase-y" issue is no longer there but there's still an issue that persists. The sequencer will play as if the sustain pedal is down. Here's what I found out from your helpful MIDI monitor suggestion.

Apparently the Rev2 ARP will send a Note On then Note Off signal. For example if you hold down A B C it reads
Note On A
Note Off A
Note On B
Note Off B
Note On C
Note Off C

However the sequencer sends a Note On signal then an All Note Off signal. Here would be the same A B C notes through the sequencer
Note On A
All Note Off
Note On B
All Note Off
Note On C
All Note Off

Maybe this All Note Off signal is not getting through?

Also, I connected the Rev2 to a protools MIDI track to see what happened. I started a sequence then stopped it and the MIDI track meter stayed lit up as if it was still receiving MIDI. It could be the last note of the sequence never getting a Note Off signal?

Rev2 MIDI Out => Juno 106 MIDI In
Rev 2 Stereo Main Audio Out => Mixer
Rev 2 Power Cable => Furman Power
Juno 106 Audio Out => Mixer
Juno 106 Power Cable => Furman Power
Juno 106 MIDI Thru/Out => Nothing

maxter

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Re: Rev2 Sequencer MIDI Out Issue
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2019, 06:42:26 PM »
Hmm... An all notes off message instead of a note off sounds strange.

I don't use protools, so I don't know if midi clock signals are shown on the MIDI track meter. I would think not. If midi clock doesn't show on the meter, then it's odd if there are incoming messages when the sequence is stopped.

Generally, a note on message is usually just a "flash" on the meter of most programs (that I've used with midi), the note off message as well, but in between those messages the meter isn't lit. IE, a held key isn't an ongoing signal when held down, it's just the on and off events. Protools could be different, I don't know. But if it does indeed show a held note as an ongoing event, lighting up the meter perpetually, then this "ongoing message" would continue to light up the meter (as if receiving midi) until it receives a "note off" or "all notes off" message. It has happened that some sequencers/software fail to send this message when stopped, they "forget" to send the last note off message. Which, if connected to another instrument or VST, leaves the last note played "stuck". Try sending the Rev2 midi to a VST or instrument and see.
The Way the Truth and the Life

maxter

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Re: Rev2 Sequencer MIDI Out Issue
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2019, 06:45:19 PM »
Oh, btw, I didn't mean you have to write all the other connections out, just the MIDI connections.

Sorry for being unclear and grumpy.
The Way the Truth and the Life

Re: Rev2 Sequencer MIDI Out Issue
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2019, 06:42:08 PM »
Just wanted to update everyone. Sequential Tech Support was unable to solve this and has added the issue to the bug list. Hopefully it will be fixed in the next update

Re: Rev2 Sequencer MIDI Out Issue
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2021, 01:04:05 AM »
Just wanted to update everyone. Sequential Tech Support was unable to solve this and has added the issue to the bug list. Hopefully it will be fixed in the next update
Old thread, but the issue is still present.
Using MidiOX you see that the Rev2 Poly Sequencer is firing the CC 123 (AllNotesOff) event instead of sending individual NoteOff events. You cannot change this behavior.

So, what now, if you actually want the sequence to be recorded and played back?
It's possible.

1. Start recording the REV2 Midi channel in your DAW and then hit "Play" on the REV2.
2. Go to a list editor for the recorded part. Search for all NRPN and/or CC data and delete it. In Cubase/Nuendo you will not see the AllNotesOff by the way, since it is filtered out by default.
3. Assuming you have your REV2 and DAW tempo in sync, you can now select all notes and bring it to a fixed length. Use the REV2 "DIVIDE" length for that (press and hold "show" and turn the DIVIDE knob). If you have a lot of ties, you can also use the maximum length where the notes with the same pitch don't overlap anymore, but this will make editing more complex since you have to take rests into consideration.

Voilŗ. Your part will playback fine. Still, using fixed lengths might not reflect the sequence perfectly, since the REV2 sequencer can also use ties (and rests, if you have chosen a different length than the divide value), which you have to edit manually. Look for the ties in the REV2 by hitting "RECORD" and then step through all tracks using the TRACK and PARAMETER knobs. If you find a tie, extend the length in your DAW for that specific note. Rests shouldn't be an issue if you select a short length first.

PS: A better idea is to listen closely the the sequence, learn to play it and record it into your DAW. This trains your skills and makes you happy in the end  :)