Securing edits

[Tugdual]

Was editing a pretty nice patch and... turned the Bank button by mistake.
Bye bye inspiration....
Anybody knows a way to secure edits?

[mage2k]

Just did the same thing with the Program knob (not the first time) and came here to ask the same thing.  A Lock Program option in the Global menu would be really useful.

[AlainHubert]

Was editing a pretty nice patch and... turned the Bank button by mistake.
Bye bye inspiration....
Anybody knows a way to secure edits?

You don't know how many times this happened to me !  Grrr !

So far, there is no way to prevent this, since Sequential haven't done anything about that in any firmware revisions.

[jg666]

Me too. Perhaps if enough of us email support with this request then it might be seen as being more important

[guyaguy]

How is this handled on other synths? I don't think I've had one that behaves differently. The only exceptions are ones with manual or panel mode where, even if you switch to a bank, you can switch back to the panel.

[RobustAmerican]

Yea, not having a manual mode is a bit of an oversight imho. This happened to me a few times early on with the Rev2. Since I started using an editor and keeping the Rev2 at least 10' away from me I've been fine. (hehe)

[jg666]

I don’t get it wrong so often on other synths because of the layout of the pots. On the Rev2 you’ve got the parameter and value knobs the other side of the display to the bank and program knobs. Many times I’ve been going to alter an arpeggio mode and turned the wrong knob and lost my changes.

Yes I know it’s down to me being a bit careless but it’s not only me that gets it wrong

[Tugdual]

I don’t get it wrong so often on other synths because of the layout of the pots. On the Rev2 you’ve got the parameter and value knobs the other side of the display to the bank and program knobs. Many times I’ve been going to alter an arpeggio mode and turned the wrong knob and lost my changes.

Yes I know it’s down to me being a bit careless but it’s not only me that gets it wrong

Exactly! Plus being right handed you go for the right button which is then bank.

[jg666]

I don’t get it wrong so often on other synths because of the layout of the pots. On the Rev2 you’ve got the parameter and value knobs the other side of the display to the bank and program knobs. Many times I’ve been going to alter an arpeggio mode and turned the wrong knob and lost my changes.

Yes I know it’s down to me being a bit careless but it’s not only me that gets it wrong

Exactly! Plus being right handed you go for the right button which is then bank.

Agreed.

[creativespiral]

So many times!    I've switched over to doing almost all patch creation and editing on Soundtower editor..  using my KK S61mk2 controller.   While creating sounds I only touch the Rev board when I need to save a stacked patch or do edits to the Layer B sequencer... which for some reason, doesn't seem to work in Soundtower editor.

[AlainHubert]

How is this handled on other synths?

On my DeepMind12 the synth automatically saves the current edit patch you were working on so you can recover it in case of you mistakenly switching to another patch (which is much less likely given the way the synth is designed).

On my Ensoniq SQ-80, you are actually working on an edit buffer which is kept in memory no matter what. Until it is replaced with another patch only after acknowledging a warning message.

And on a few other machines, they will warn you that you're about to lose your work and ask you if that it really what you want to do.

But on the REV2, they simply don't care if you accidentally lose your work and inspiration because the design of the front panel around the minuscule display kinda sucks...

Also, I don't know how many times I've turned the Delay knob by mistake in the filter section when I wanted to change the filter envelope Attack, because of the way the Attack knob is positioned in the other envelope sections... Has anyone else done that, or am I that clumsy ?

[guyaguy]

How is this handled on other synths?

On my DeepMind12 the synth automatically saves the current edit patch you were working on so you can recover it in case of you mistakenly switching to another patch (which is much less likely given the way the synth is designed).

On my Ensoniq SQ-80, you are actually working on an edit buffer which is kept in memory no matter what. Until it is replaced with another patch only after acknowledging a warning message.

And on a few other machines, they will warn you that you're about to lose your work and ask you if that it really what you want to do.

But on the REV2, they simply don't care if you accidentally lose your work and inspiration because the design of the front panel around the minuscule display kinda sucks...

Also, I don't know how many times I've turned the Delay knob by mistake in the filter section when I wanted to change the filter envelope Attack, because of the way the Attack knob is positioned in the other envelope sections... Has anyone else done that, or am I that clumsy ?

Ah yeah a warning would make sense--and presumably not hard to implement in the firmware. Auto-saving can cause its own issues, like overwriting an already saved patch.

And yeah the EG Delay knob being in a different spot is a little annoying.

[jg666]

Yes I would prefer a warning rather than it auto saving. Obviously the warning should only appear if changes have been made. But I'm not sure if that would get too annoying if, for example, you select a patch, play with it a while and just alter the cut-off whilst playing, I probably wouldn't want a warning for that.

It's not an easy thing to decide when a patch has been properly edited and when it's just the player tweaking a few settings whilst using the patch.

[Bezoblika]

I used Lego to solve this problem: https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,1796.msg19788.html#msg19788


Richard

[guyaguy]

I used Lego to solve this problem: https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,1796.msg19788.html#msg19788


Richard

:slow clap:

[AlainHubert]

Clever ! 

I didn't know that the P12 Module was also suffering from this flawed layout design ?

That leads me to believe that Dave Smith hasn't spent a single second trying to create a patch and save it on any of his machines. Otherwise he would have probably realized how easy it can be to touch those Program or Bank buttons by mistake.

I prefer the way Ensoniq did it, over 30 years ago.

On a ESQ-1 or SQ-80, whilst you are editing a patch all the parameters of the current selected patch are copied into an Edit Buffer area in memory and a *C* symbol appears on the display telling you that. You can then change parameters and press the Compare button to check what was the original patch parameters, like a normal Compare function. But when you select another patch, either intentionally or by accident, the Compare button can now be used to recall the Edit Buffer you were working on before you selected another patch, and you can either continue your editing, or save that Edit Buffer as a new patch. Simple and brilliant.

But, like DSI/Sequential reps have already stated a few times, they're not in the habit of copying what other companies do, even if it's much better than the way DSI/Sequential does some things, sometimes.

So you can probably forget about any firmware improvements to alleviate poor knobs layout design choices. The Lego solution is still better than losing your work. Time to get out my Lego MindStorm set from the basement... 

[Quatschmacher]

Yes I would prefer a warning rather than it auto saving. Obviously the warning should only appear if changes have been made. But I'm not sure if that would get too annoying if, for example, you select a patch, play with it a while and just alter the cut-off whilst playing, I probably wouldn't want a warning for that.

It's not an easy thing to decide when a patch has been properly edited and when it's just the player tweaking a few settings whilst using the patch.

It could be som implemented as to be a thing that one could switch on and off as desired so that when in a playing (as opposed to a programming) situation one could make changes without having a warning pop up.

[jg666]

Yes I would prefer a warning rather than it auto saving. Obviously the warning should only appear if changes have been made. But I'm not sure if that would get too annoying if, for example, you select a patch, play with it a while and just alter the cut-off whilst playing, I probably wouldn't want a warning for that.

It's not an easy thing to decide when a patch has been properly edited and when it's just the player tweaking a few settings whilst using the patch.

It could be som implemented as to be a thing that one could switch on and off as desired so that when in a playing (as opposed to a programming) situation one could make changes without having a warning pop up.

Yes that would work for me

[guyaguy]

Clever ! 

I didn't know that the P12 Module was also suffering from this flawed layout design ?

That leads me to believe that Dave Smith hasn't spent a single second trying to create a patch and save it on any of his machines. Otherwise he would have probably realized how easy it can be to touch those Program or Bank buttons by mistake.

I prefer the way Ensoniq did it, over 30 years ago.

On a ESQ-1 or SQ-80, whilst you are editing a patch all the parameters of the current selected patch are copied into an Edit Buffer area in memory and a *C* symbol appears on the display telling you that. You can then change parameters and press the Compare button to check what was the original patch parameters, like a normal Compare function. But when you select another patch, either intentionally or by accident, the Compare button can now be used to recall the Edit Buffer you were working on before you selected another patch, and you can either continue your editing, or save that Edit Buffer as a new patch. Simple and brilliant.

But, like DSI/Sequential reps have already stated a few times, they're not in the habit of copying what other companies do, even if it's much better than the way DSI/Sequential does some things, sometimes.

So you can probably forget about any firmware improvements to alleviate poor knobs layout design choices. The Lego solution is still better than losing your work. Time to get out my Lego MindStorm set from the basement... 

Pretty smart design. Actually better than the warning model, which could be clumsy live. “I see you’re trying to change Programs. Can I help you with that? Are you sure?”