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NAMM 2019 discussion.

chysn

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Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2019, 01:34:24 AM »
They have got Mutable Instruments in on the design and are using a great number of their oscillator algorithms in it.

Well, Arturia used code from Plaits while the marketing copy throws around terms like "collaboration," but Mutable Instruments had nothing to do with the design, and Émile was only shown the thing when it was pretty much done. She doesn't object to the use of the open-source code, but she does sort of object to the word "collaboration."

But still, if you ever wanted Plaits in a stand-alone synth...
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Shaw

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Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2019, 05:38:42 AM »
To be honest, on the synth front, this NAMM was a bit of a sleeper.  Although Waldorf’s new Oscillator ability on the Quantum has me re-thinking that synth.
Prophet X  |  Prophet 12  |  OB-6
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2019, 06:07:22 AM »
The Waldorf Kyra (aka Exodus Valkyrie) is available: https://www.gearnews.com/namm-2019-waldorf-shows-off-kyra-the-revamped-valkyrie-virtual-analog-synthesizer/
I would like to have a look at the manual to see what you can do with the oscillator groups and other details about the synth engine.

Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2019, 11:44:47 AM »
Well they did go adult size with the Prologue.

Yes, I expected someone would say that.  At first, I was excited about them, but the Prologues now seem like cheap Prophet Rev2s.  Sure, they have some obvious additional features, but also a pitiful paucity of modulation.  On the Sweetwater Specs page, they don't even mention modulation!  Nor have I been impressed with their general tone.  Nor is there a module version.  And I've also read about serious tuning problems in quite a few units.  I quickly crossed the Prologues off my list.

Besides, isn't the digital oscillator still under development?  I prefer completed instruments that can be fully assessed before purchased.  That's one of the reasons I wait for Sequential to finish their OS updates before buying one of their synthesizers.  I'm still patiently waiting for the Rev2 to reach its "perfect" state.

And no aftertouch.

Yes, and I just read a review in which a person tried to make light of this by saying - surprise surprise - that the synthesizers of the 80's didn't have aftertouch (but some did, such as the ARP Pro Soloist), and no one complained about it back then.  Please!  That's not a very effective defense.

I'm not in need of exceedingly complicated synthesizers, but there is a minimum of basic features that must be present, and aftertouch is certainly one of them, together with four or more LFOs.
 
I suppose it's unlikely we'll see it this winter, but I'm really hoping for some sort of Prophet 12 replacement from Sequential.  I can wait, because I'm still getting ready for the Rev2, but I do hope there's a big one in the works.

For me I’ve started to warm up to the Prologue for one simple reason: it sounds different. It doesn’t sound like a Prophet or Oberhiem, it has its own unique sound that compliments my other gear.

I just received my Prologue today - 30 minutes ago. I have a Prophet 6 as my main poly-synth in Berlin, but I'm back and forth to California enough lately to need a new/reliable poly when I'm back home. My girlfriend has a P5, and I've got a PolySix, so I'm sorted for vintage gear out here. Thankfully, finances have dictated that another Prophet 6, or an OB-6 ain't possible. I've had my eye on the Prologue since it showed up in the shop and I have to say, I really do love the sound. Don't get me wrong - I adore the Prophet 6 - but the Prologue has, for me, more immediate "analog charm." The oscs blur quite naturally and the filter edges nicely towards dirty MS-10/20 territory. I'm with Lobolives regarding the Prologue - "unique sound that compliments my other gear." I'm not in need of loads of modulation options, nor aftertouch, really. I think my background with some of the classics, the aforementioned P5 and PolySix, for example, has me trained to appreciate the possibilities of straightforwardness. Anyway, I'm so pleased to have picked up a Prologue finally.

Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2019, 01:26:37 PM »
To be honest, on the synth front, this NAMM was a bit of a sleeper.

Maybe not so much on the level of so-called flagship synths but other than that there have been quite a few announcements and more indications of companies moving beyond analog-only as the former "gold standard." In other words: more and more companies are getting into hybrids. And it might be the case that some manufacturers are going to wait until Superbooth with their next announcements.

But even in the purely analog realm Dave Rossum developed the very interesting triple-oscillator module Trident which seems like a luxury version of the Moog One front end.

Although Waldorf’s new Oscillator ability on the Quantum has me re-thinking that synth.

The kernel synthesis update is indeed a rather big one. What you basically get now is up to three 6OP FM synths that are inter-modulatable amongst other things.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 01:38:14 PM by Paul Dither »

Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
« Reply #45 on: January 25, 2019, 02:12:44 PM »
They have got Mutable Instruments in on the design and are using a great number of their oscillator algorithms in it.

Well, Arturia used code from Plaits while the marketing copy throws around terms like "collaboration," but Mutable Instruments had nothing to do with the design, and Émile was only shown the thing when it was pretty much done. She doesn't object to the use of the open-source code, but she does sort of object to the word "collaboration."

But still, if you ever wanted Plaits in a stand-alone synth...

This unfortunately was a marketing mistake, the copy has been changed and apologies for the mistake have been made.

Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
« Reply #46 on: January 25, 2019, 02:20:43 PM »
I know it won't happen this year, but I'm wondering if Moog will eventually fill the Minimoog vacuum.

I do wonder...now that Moog has done an analog polysynth again...would they really go back to Mono synths or continue to try new things.

This just came into my inbox:

https://www.moogmusic.com/news/sirin-analog-messenger-joy

Ah, I need this. I love the minitaur and this looks a good addition.

Shaw

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Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
« Reply #47 on: January 25, 2019, 04:07:50 PM »
The kernel synthesis update is indeed a rather big one. What you basically get now is up to three 6OP FM synths that are inter-modulatable amongst other things.
Exactly!  But I’m also excited to see Waldorf take their instrument beyond the original spec.... and I like Rolf’s answer when he misheard Nick Blatt say “Wow”, Rolf heard “why?” — and his answer was (I think a very German answer) something along the lines of “because we can, because we like to see the sonic experimentation that can be done with the Quantum, and why not?”.
Prophet X  |  Prophet 12  |  OB-6
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
« Reply #48 on: January 25, 2019, 04:13:44 PM »
The kernel synthesis update is indeed a rather big one. What you basically get now is up to three 6OP FM synths that are inter-modulatable amongst other things.
Exactly!  But I’m also excited to see Waldorf take their instrument beyond the original spec.... and I like Rolf’s answer when he misheard Nick Blatt say “Wow”, Rolf heard “why?” — and his answer was (I think a very German answer) something along the lines of “because we can, because we like to see the sonic experimentation that can be done with the Quantum, and why not?”.

Hehe, yeah, saw that too. I already saw an interview with Rolf during the summer in which he was hinting at some more features and even the option of integrating some of the Quantum's ingredients in upcoming and maybe even more affordable units. He definitely seemed to be eager to keep on expanding the Waldorf portfolio.

Sleep of Reason

Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
« Reply #49 on: January 25, 2019, 04:45:25 PM »
I remember him mentioning the possibility of some kind of FM engine. Say what you want about the delay between announcement & release, at least they're quick on getting to a major update already. Kudos to Waldorf!

Razmo

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Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
« Reply #50 on: January 25, 2019, 04:54:38 PM »
but unfortunately they cannot update it to 16 voices... which really is a shame
If you need me, follow the shadows...

Shaw

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Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
« Reply #51 on: January 25, 2019, 04:57:50 PM »
I remember him mentioning the possibility of some kind of FM engine. Say what you want about the delay between announcement & release, at least they're quick on getting to a major update already. Kudos to Waldorf!
Yeah, Waldorf are making a concerted effort to “get it right”... I think that is important considering that their roll out of the Quantum (ahem, SHIPPING DELAYS) was less than stellar.


Ha! “Shipping delays”...that’s like an added feature — flanger, chorus, BBD, Reverb, shipping delays....  ;D
Prophet X  |  Prophet 12  |  OB-6
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Shaw

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Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
« Reply #52 on: January 25, 2019, 04:58:27 PM »
but unfortunately they cannot update it to 16 voices... which really is a shame
True that. 
Prophet X  |  Prophet 12  |  OB-6
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2019, 05:04:51 PM »
but unfortunately they cannot update it to 16 voices... which really is a shame

Fair point. In my opinion they could have done without the analog filters which would have cut costs in the domain of signal conversion from digital to analog and back. That would also have made a 16-voice (or more) instrument much more likely.

Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2019, 05:06:03 PM »
Ha! “Shipping delays”...that’s like an added feature — flanger, chorus, BBD, Reverb, shipping delays....  ;D

Those shipping delays are even kind of analog…

Razmo

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Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2019, 05:37:27 PM »
Well... i think that one of it's biggest selling points are in fact the analog filters... if they were not there, honestly, I'd rather be looking at the Kyra
If you need me, follow the shadows...

Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2019, 05:47:30 PM »
Well... i think that one of it's biggest selling points are in fact the analog filters... if they were not there, honestly, I'd rather be looking at the Kyra

Technically, the most interesting things in the Quantum really happen before the audio signal hits the analog filters, which are also not as colorful in terms of character like let's say Moog's, SEM-based, or the PX's filters for example, which in turn is also a post-Microwave/Wave Waldorf tradition. That doesn't make the Kyra a direct competitor though, since its synth engine is far more conventional by comparison, although its based on upgraded technology of course.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 05:49:13 PM by Paul Dither »

Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2019, 09:42:45 PM »
While I think this NAMM was more guitar oriented, I do think Superbooth or Knobcon is more likely to see some bigger synth releases and announcements.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Oberheim SEM-Pro, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

Razmo

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Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
« Reply #58 on: January 26, 2019, 01:57:39 AM »
Well... i think that one of it's biggest selling points are in fact the analog filters... if they were not there, honestly, I'd rather be looking at the Kyra

Technically, the most interesting things in the Quantum really happen before the audio signal hits the analog filters, which are also not as colorful in terms of character like let's say Moog's, SEM-based, or the PX's filters for example, which in turn is also a post-Microwave/Wave Waldorf tradition. That doesn't make the Kyra a direct competitor though, since its synth engine is far more conventional by comparison, although its based on upgraded technology of course.

To me it's the combination of the digital front end and the analog filters that does it... not any of them stand alone... I honestly have no interest in the digital engine alone because it has the typical Waldorf digital sound to it which is rather sterile and well... digital... I've always liked Waldorfs hybrid and analog products, but really none of their 100% digital ones...
If you need me, follow the shadows...

Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
« Reply #59 on: January 26, 2019, 05:16:00 AM »
Well... i think that one of it's biggest selling points are in fact the analog filters... if they were not there, honestly, I'd rather be looking at the Kyra

Technically, the most interesting things in the Quantum really happen before the audio signal hits the analog filters, which are also not as colorful in terms of character like let's say Moog's, SEM-based, or the PX's filters for example, which in turn is also a post-Microwave/Wave Waldorf tradition. That doesn't make the Kyra a direct competitor though, since its synth engine is far more conventional by comparison, although its based on upgraded technology of course.

To me it's the combination of the digital front end and the analog filters that does it... not any of them stand alone... I honestly have no interest in the digital engine alone because it has the typical Waldorf digital sound to it which is rather sterile and well... digital... I've always liked Waldorfs hybrid and analog products, but really none of their 100% digital ones...

Sure, it remains a matter of taste in the end. I just meant that the really interesting things in the Quantum take place in the digital front end from the POV of innovation alone. All I can tell from the online examples and personal experience is that the Quantum is certainly no instant gratification machine and whether or not you use its analog filters doesn't change that. Plus: the latter have a rather surgical quality, meaning that they don't ooze tons of character once you activate them, which is why I think it wouldn't make a huge sonic difference if they wouldn't be there.