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Neutron VCO Sound Set Samples

blewis

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Neutron VCO Sound Set Samples
« on: January 01, 2019, 09:32:26 PM »
Happy New Year!

With the excellent help of @Lady Gaia, we've been able to bring together a set of VCO samples from the Behringer Neutron!

The samples are organized into 8 Instruments in the Neutron VCO Sound Set:

02. 3340 Triangle
03. 3340 Saw
04. 3340 Square
05. 3340 Dual Saw (tight tuning)
06: 3340 Dual Saw 2 (an alternate take with slightly looser tuning)
07: 3340 Dual PWM (square wave with a slow LFO changing both OSCís PW)
08: 3340 xMod PWM (Neutronís Tone Mod oscillator with a slow LFO on both OSCís PW)
09: 3340+ Saw Trio (Neutronís Saw oscillators slightly detuned with a Moog Mother-32 Saw added)

The following link has a folder named u02.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/33yyvhhgyka4s7r/AAAa-MqTueOYpWa9voqHK4MXa?dl=0

This folder must be placed intact into the px/ directory on your Prophet X USB stick for uploading. You can change the folderís name to relocate it on your synth. But it MUST take the form u00, u01, u02, u03, etc. (we believe u07 is the highest number)  DONíT rename it to make it nice. (there is at least one bad report of someone renaming it out of this pattern and having issues. Also, to be on the safe side, donít exceed u07)

DISCLAIMER: This is community work. Itís free (as in beer). It didnít kill or otherwise mess up our Prophet Xís, but youíre using this at your own risk.

Thanks to Lady Gaia for taking these samples I captured and setting loop points, adjusting the gain and offering some good advice. Really great to work with cool people to get some work done.

Hopefully everyone will enjoy these and make some music with them.

Re: Neutron VCO Sound Set Samples
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2019, 01:59:59 AM »
thanks so much ... very appreciated  ;D
PT10/12HD, Logic X, Digital Performer, Vienna Ensemble Pro
MacPro 5,1; MacBook Pro

Re: Neutron VCO Sound Set Samples
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2019, 03:16:56 AM »

Great work 'Mr Lewis'

More please.


quote author=blewis link=topic=3235.msg34739#msg34739 date=1546407146]
Happy New Year!

With the excellent help of @Lady Gaia, we've been able to bring together a set of VCO samples from the Behringer Neutron!

The samples are organized into 8 Instruments in the Neutron VCO Sound Set:

02. 3340 Triangle
03. 3340 Saw
04. 3340 Square
05. 3340 Dual Saw (tight tuning)
06: 3340 Dual Saw 2 (an alternate take with slightly looser tuning)
07: 3340 Dual PWM (square wave with a slow LFO changing both OSCís PW)
08: 3340 xMod PWM (Neutronís Tone Mod oscillator with a slow LFO on both OSCís PW)
09: 3340+ Saw Trio (Neutronís Saw oscillators slightly detuned with a Moog Mother-32 Saw added)

The following link has a folder named u02.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/33yyvhhgyka4s7r/AAAa-MqTueOYpWa9voqHK4MXa?dl=0

This folder must be placed intact into the px/ directory on your Prophet X USB stick for uploading. You can change the folderís name to relocate it on your synth. But it MUST take the form u00, u01, u02, u03, etc. (we believe u07 is the highest number)  DONíT rename it to make it nice. (there is at least one bad report of someone renaming it out of this pattern and having issues. Also, to be on the safe side, donít exceed u07)

DISCLAIMER: This is community work. Itís free (as in beer). It didnít kill or otherwise mess up our Prophet Xís, but youíre using this at your own risk.

Thanks to Lady Gaia for taking these samples I captured and setting loop points, adjusting the gain and offering some good advice. Really great to work with cool people to get some work done.

Hopefully everyone will enjoy these and make some music with them.
[/quote]

LoboLives

Re: Neutron VCO Sound Set Samples
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2019, 11:27:51 PM »
Awesome! I hope to see more people trading samples with each other.

Re: Neutron VCO Sound Set Samples
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2019, 04:05:47 PM »
If I have samples in U00 already and want to put these Neutron samples in U00 as well but after mine can you rename the number of the Zip?   I'd rather fill U00 with all similar material (analog oscs) before going to U01.

Will the PX put them after the banks in U00 that are already there,  like if -  "01.Mysamples_Saw1.Zip" is there and I name one of the new Zips - "02.NewSamples_Saw1.Zip" (keeping original name) will it add without deleting the 01 ZIP?

Thanks,
Dan

blewis

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  • 238
Re: Neutron VCO Sound Set Samples
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2019, 05:13:50 PM »
At this point, Iím only comfortable saying you can change the folder name. I havenít done enough testing to recommend anything else.

Since weíre in the beta stages, I think itís going to take some time before you really figure out how you want things organized and figure out how to use the mapper to help you.

Again, I would NOT rename the zip files at this point. Too risky.

If I have samples in U00 already and want to put these Neutron samples in U00 as well but after mine can you rename the number of the Zip?   I'd rather fill U00 with all similar material (analog oscs) before going to U01.

Will the PX put them after the banks in U00 that are already there,  like if -  "01.Mysamples_Saw1.Zip" is there and I name one of the new Zips - "02.NewSamples_Saw1.Zip" (keeping original name) will it add without deleting the 01 ZIP?

Thanks,
Dan

Re: Neutron VCO Sound Set Samples
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2019, 05:52:57 PM »
I will go further and say do not attempt to rename the .zip archives.  The same information is repeated inside the archive and the Prophet X seems ill-prepared to deal gracefully with the conflict.

I've filed a ticket with Sequential suggesting that the exact behaviors supported be better documented, and to recommend allowing people to renumber the .zip archives to do exactly as you're suggesting.  Today, though, it can't be done and there's no guarantee it ever will be.

Re: Neutron VCO Sound Set Samples
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2019, 07:19:03 PM »
I will go further and say do not attempt to rename the .zip archives.  The same information is repeated inside the archive and the Prophet X seems ill-prepared to deal gracefully with the conflict.

I've filed a ticket with Sequential suggesting that the exact behaviors supported be better documented, and to recommend allowing people to renumber the .zip archives to do exactly as you're suggesting.  Today, though, it can't be done and there's no guarantee it ever will be.

Those ZIP numbers are generated by the mapping utility based on what's in your export folder already.  If there's a #1 zip it'll call it #2    So you think those numbers are written into the Zip at the time it looks at what's there and gives it a higher number?   There's got to be a way to add more Zips to a U Bank or we'll run out fast.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 07:21:36 PM by REwire »

Re: Neutron VCO Sound Set Samples
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2019, 08:34:13 PM »
Those ZIP numbers are generated by the mapping utility based on what's in your export folder already.  If there's a #1 zip it'll call it #2.

Numbering starts with 02 and itís a different sequence for each category but otherwise, yes, this is how the Mapping Utility works.  So you can always generate any sequence number you want so long as you have the raw samples to work with.  The problem comes when youíre dealing with someone elseís pre-packaged samples already embedded in an encrypted .zip.

Quote
So you think those numbers are written into the Zip at the time it looks at what's there and gives it a higher number?

Yes, thatís exactly what happens.

Quote
There's got to be a way to add more Zips to a U Bank or we'll run out fast.

So long as youíre creating the .zip files yourself you can do so, and you can always combine unrelated categories because the numbering is unique within a category (synths, drums, ambience, etc.)  If thereís a thriving community of shared samples like this Neutron VCO package, however, youíre quite right that it will become a problem.  Thatís why I filed the ticket with Sequential with my specific suggestion for allowing users to renumber the .zip archives.  Theyíve heard a lot from me on related subjects, and Iíll keep working to enable the kind of community weíd all benefit from.

Re: Neutron VCO Sound Set Samples
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2019, 09:00:36 PM »
I've installed OS 2.1 and tested out a bunch of user samples and programs without issues.  Not that I was having any problems before, but all seems well.  To celebrate, it seems only fitting to post an update to what was formerly the Neutron VCO pack.  Click here to download version 1.1 of the VCO Pack:

Release Notes

The Prophet X VCO Sample Pack is a community effort to bring classic VCO sounds into the Sequential Prophet X as user samples.  Long unfiltered samples were captured for every key across a 73-key range to reproduce the natural variation of each instrument.  A variety of configurations appropriate to the source were used to reproduce a range of useful raw oscillator sounds.

Neutron VCO samples:

  02. Triangle
  03. Saw
  04. Square
  05. Dual Saw
  06. Dual Saw Alt
  07. Dual PWM
  08. xMod PWM
  09. Saw Trio w M32

These keymaps showcase a modern CEM3340 oscillator IC, manufactured using the same design and specifications that contributed to the core sound of classic instruments including:

* Cumar Spirit
* Moog's Memorymoog
* Oberheim OB-8 and OB-Xa
* Roland SH-101 and Jupiter-6
* Sequential Circuits' Pro One, Prophet 5 rev 3, Prophet 10, Prophet T8, and Prophet 600

The final keymap routs a dual sawtooth configuration externally through a Moog Mother-32 to layer yet another sawtooth wave for additional thickness and variety.

OB-6 VCO samples:

  10. Triangle
  11. Saw
  12. Saw PWM
  13. Square
  14. Pulse
  15. Narrow Pulse
  16. PWM
  17. Saw xMod Square

These keymaps showcase a discrete design manufactured by Sequential as a collaboration between Dave Smith and Tom Oberheim as a callback to classic Oberheim sounds.

Caution:

Make *certain* you're on the latest Prophet X firmware prior to installation.  System updates performed using SysEx do not completely update all aspects of the system and should be followed by a regular OS update using Sequential-provided .bin file.  Owners have encountered issues with versions as recent as 2.0.0.0.1, so a later release is recommended.  Version 2.1 was in beta as of this writing and can be downloaded by members of the forum at https://forum.sequential.com.

Installation:

Starting with a USB storage device formatted by the Prophet X (from the Global menu select 35-Format USB Drive), create a directory named "px" at the root of the drive.  Copy the "u02" directory accompanying this README into the "px" directory to create a directory structure the Prophet X can install (using the Global menu's 34-Update Library, which should be switched to User mode.)

The u02 directory corresponds with the sample group User 3.  The directory name can be changed to control which group the installation occurs in, but it must be one of u00, u01, u02, u03, u04, u05, u06, or u07.  These correspond to the groups User 1-8 for reasons only a software engineer could love.

Credits:

Thanks to the GearSlutz.com community for the collective interest in getting this project started.  The first step was taken by @blewis_13 in providing his Neutron VCO recordings.  OB-6 samples were contributed by @AlanC3.  Sample editing, looping, and packaging by @Lady Gaia.

Disclaimer:

The content of this sample pack is provided AS IS with no implied warranty.  Install at your own risk, knowing that you accept full responsibility for resolving any issues that may arise.

Version History:

v1.0
- Initial release of Neutron VCO content

v1.1
- Added OB-6 content
- Added Neutron VCO samples for black keys unintentionally omitted from v1.0
- Revised naming to follow established Prophet X conventions

Re: Neutron VCO Sound Set Samples
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2019, 11:06:25 PM »
In general, the Neutron seems to be a little more mellow than the Prophet X DSP oscillators, but the OB-6 goes completely the opposite direction.  It's positively aggressive in tone.  Below I've illustrated basic waveforms across the various options, first as audio played with a filter envelope starting wide open and closing down quickly.  The graphs that follow show the raw oscillator sound prior to filtering.

The sawtooth waves are pretty similar on the Prophet X and OB-6, with the latter having a slower amplitude ramp with higher harmonics contributing to the aggressive tone.  The Neutron shows a much less even ramp which contributes some to an unconventional wave shape (phase differences could also be a contributing factor):

https://soundcloud.com/user-375958902/saw-px-neutron-ob6


The corresponding square wave across all three is next.  While in a classic square the even harmonics are entirely absent, they're present at a low level in the Prophet X oscillator that extends beyond where the odd harmonics ramp down.  The same is true to an even greater degree in the OB-6 sample, contributing to a buzzy, aggressive tone.  The Neutron sample takes it to another level, with prominent even harmonics that exceed the level of their odd counterparts absurdly early in the series:

https://soundcloud.com/user-375958902/square-px-neutron-ob6


Finally, a triangle wave on the two samples synths since there isn't a native triangle on the Prophet X oscillators.  Here it's the OB-6 that strongly over-represents even harmonics in what is classically a pure odd harmonic series:

https://soundcloud.com/user-375958902/triangle-neutron-ob6

Re: Neutron VCO Sound Set Samples
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2019, 11:39:43 PM »
I've installed OS 2.1 and tested out a bunch of user samples and programs without issues.  Not that I was having any problems before, but all seems well.  To celebrate, it seems only fitting to post an update to what was formerly the Neutron VCO pack.  Click here to download version 1.1 of the VCO Pack:



Thank you very much! I am using the first VCO sample pack from you all the time, and this update is fantastic material for me :-)
I canīt however open the link to the dropbox folder. It say the folder does not exist. Is it user error on my side or is it something wrong with the link?

I am really looking forward to load these into my px  8)

Re: Neutron VCO Sound Set Samples
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2019, 04:27:55 AM »
All of you rock. Thank you!

Re: Neutron VCO Sound Set Samples
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2019, 04:52:39 AM »
The new download link for1.1 doesn't work for me.

Re: Neutron VCO Sound Set Samples
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2019, 05:34:13 AM »
The new download link for1.1 doesn't work for me.

Same here as well.

blewis

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Re: Neutron VCO Sound Set Samples
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2019, 06:31:44 AM »
In the interest of sharing, for those of you interested, I'm posting raw Neutron VCO samples here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4vgkrvyn518j0uy/NeutronVCO-RawSamples-r2.zip?dl=0

These are the waveforms used to make the Gearslutz Prophet X VCO sample pack that @Lady Gaia released in the Prophet X thread on GS.

These samples were taken with the default, normalized path of the Neutron with a touch of high end added via the Tone in the Overdrive section. Some have pointed out this default path introduces its own distortion into the signal. We'll call it "character" and leave it at that.

It would be cooler if these didn't show up in a commercial sample pack because they are meant to be shared with the synth community.

Re: Neutron VCO Sound Set Samples
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2019, 06:47:00 AM »
Sigh.  Try again with this link.  Sadly, I canít edit the original post at this point to correct it.

Re: Neutron VCO Sound Set Samples
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2019, 08:06:27 AM »
Sigh.  Try again with this link.  Sadly, I canít edit the original post at this point to correct it.
That worked. Thank you
I was able to just drop these new folders into my U00 folder where I had the mellotron samples I posted here and then refresh the samples on the PX and now I have one bank with all my current user samples.

Is there any documentation on how much each user bank can hold? Once I added these samples to my Mellotron samples that User Bank 1 is about 1150MB total. Or a max number of sample maps? I think that would be useful info to know.

Cursory listen since I am technically working and won't be able to dive in until later, but these sound fantastic. You guys are amazing.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 08:24:33 AM by mildwest »

Re: Neutron VCO Sound Set Samples
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2019, 10:01:07 AM »
Is there any documentation on how much each user bank can hold? Once I added these samples to my Mellotron samples that User Bank 1 is about 1150MB total. Or a max number of sample maps? I think that would be useful info to know.

It looks like the factory samples are treated as a single 150GB bank, so I wouldnít expect any problems with exceeding whatever limit there may be for a single bank.  You could almost certainly fill the remaining 50GB with one bank if desired.

The only limit Iíve ever seen documented is 1.5GB per sample set (which appears to be the terminology for an individual keymap.)  The sample set index appears to be a fixed two-digit value within each category, starting with 02.  So Iíd count on a maximum of 98 sample sets in each category.

Re: Neutron VCO Sound Set Samples
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2019, 10:17:53 AM »
Is there any documentation on how much each user bank can hold? Once I added these samples to my Mellotron samples that User Bank 1 is about 1150MB total. Or a max number of sample maps? I think that would be useful info to know.

It looks like the factory samples are treated as a single 150GB bank, so I wouldnít expect any problems with exceeding whatever limit there may be for a single bank.  You could almost certainly fill the remaining 50GB with one bank if desired.

The only limit Iíve ever seen documented is 1.5GB per sample set (which appears to be the terminology for an individual keymap.)  The sample set index appears to be a fixed two-digit value within each category, starting with 02.  So Iíd count on a maximum of 98 sample sets in each category.

I don't know if they tweaked something in this update with load times of samples, but these seem to have been added so much faster than my first smaller Mellotron bank.Everything just seemed smoother this time. That being said you all did the hard work for me  ;)