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The Prophet '08 Among Prophets

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #360 on: September 15, 2017, 09:29:19 PM »
I guess you're responding to the original post of this thread, so it must be me that you're addressing.  These discussions can get emotional, as people take comments and opinions personally, and I'd rather not fall into that sort of mess.  But I haven't changed my original opinion.

As you know, I recently put in some serious time with a Prophet 12.  Of course, four weeks doesn't make me a P12 master.  However, my main objective was to compare the tonal qualities of the P12, PEK, and P'08.  My conclusion was that they're all superb in their own ways, and each is worth owning every bit as much as the others.  My disclaimer, though, is that I use configurations that are quite different from most synthesists, and my judgments are based on these configurations.  So, if you put a single Prophet 12 Keyboard beside a single Prophet '08 Keyboard, you have a configuration that doesn't interest me in the least.  Honestly, both sound mediocre to my ears.  So, I have no judgments or conclusions on that account. 

The only configuration that interests me is to compare a Prophet 12, either using both pair of output jacks, or else, pairing a keyboard version with a module version, with a Prophet '08 set up in the same way - either with both pair of jacks or paired with a module version.  In this arrangement, together with the all-important mixer panning for a deep stereo effect, a comparison between the two instruments can be made that is meaningful.  With this arrangement, it's still my personal opinion that the P'08/Rev2's string patch is superior to that of the P12.  I believe it's warmer and can better withstand an opening of the filter without turning somewhat shrill.  I found the upper end of the P12 filter to be a tad too "digital sounding" for my taste, which is why I recorded only a soft string piece on my YouTube channel.  Whereas, the P'08's opened filter sounds typically bristly, but not shrill unless you want it to.

Also, I would not bother to compare four P12 oscillators with only two P'08 oscillators.  In my opinion, that wouldn't be fair.  Of course four will sound better than two!  I would first get the P'08 up to the P12's standard, but you would possibly feel that this only proves your point.  It doesn't matter to me.  I'm trying to compare only the fullest and most ideal arrangement of each synthesizer.  And when the number of oscillators is equal between the two instruments, again, I prefer the Prophet '08.

I would say, based on your YouTube video (which has some excellent sounds), that our personal ideas of a string patch substantially differ.  When I use the term in reference to my own music, I mean a fairly realistic emulation of a string section; not perfect or exact, but realistic enough.  So, I think you and I are speaking in similar terms but with differing meanings.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 10:28:51 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #361 on: September 15, 2017, 10:33:41 PM »
I don't want this discussion to make it seem as if I'm criticizing the Prophet 12.  I'm not criticizing, but comparing.  One month with a P12 completely turned me around.  My opinion of it drastically changed for the better, so that I'm presently hoping that my Poly Evolver Keyboard will soon sell on Craigslist, so that I can buy one.  That should say it all.  There's nothing like a Prophet 12!
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #362 on: September 16, 2017, 06:43:24 AM »
I guess you're responding to the original post of this thread, so it must be me that you're addressing.  These discussions can get emotional, as people take comments and opinions personally, and I'd rather not fall into that sort of mess.  But I haven't changed my original opinion.

I would say, based on your YouTube video (which has some excellent sounds), that our personal ideas of a string patch substantially differ.  When I use the term in reference to my own music, I mean a fairly realistic emulation of a string section; not perfect or exact, but realistic enough.  So, I think you and I are speaking in similar terms but with differing meanings.

You're right about the string sound in my video, I've added an LFO to Shape Mod which means it has the flange like effect and it's obviously more a synthetic synth string pad than a real string sound, but then at the time of recording I wasn't trying to demonstrate how 'real' it could get, I was just trying to show some of my favourite patches.

I linked to the video only to give an idea of what I meant.

Certainly I have a plainer less effected string patch on my P12 which does sound a lot more like a real string, but tbh I rarely use it.

I've sample libraries for real strings and I don't see the point in owning any synth and then trying to make it sound like a real instrument (unless it's just for the challenge of doing so), as there's already many better ways of getting those sounds.

The whole point for me of owning a synth is to get synthetic sounds, sounds that don't sound real and that's why the string patch in my demo has the the shape mod happening.

I love subtle movement in sound - that's one of the reasons I love synths! :)

However, if you were talking about which Dave Smith synth makes the best synth string sound, then for me it's definitely the Prophet 12.

Neither the P12 or Rev2 will make a convincing real string sound IMO, but then they shouldn't...they're synths! :)


Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #363 on: September 16, 2017, 10:53:53 AM »
I don't want this discussion to make it seem as if I'm criticizing the Prophet 12.  I'm not criticizing, but comparing.  One month with a P12 completely turned me around.  My opinion of it drastically changed for the better, so that I'm presently hoping that my Poly Evolver Keyboard will soon sell on Craigslist, so that I can buy one.  That should say it all.  There's nothing like a Prophet 12!

Well, I never thought I would see the day ;)

Strangely I have backed down from selling my PEK, P12 and P2. I couldn't bring myself to do it, loosing those three to get a Modal 002 seemed like a good idea to begin with but after some thought I have stuck with the idea that the combination of the three DSI synths offers much more than a shiny new 002.

Also the thought of getting rid of the PEK was haunting me a bit, I had got to the position where I only wanted to sell it to someone that I knew would treat it well; a bit like screening prospective husbands for a daughter, none of whom would ever be good enough!

I am very interested in what you come up with on your new P12 once you have studied it to the same level as you have with the Evolver, I'm guessing there will be some good stuff.


Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #364 on: September 16, 2017, 02:09:43 PM »
Neither the P12 or Rev2 will make a convincing real string sound IMO, but then they shouldn't...they're synths! :)

We'll just peacefully disagree on that.  I think both synthesizers can make reasonably convincing string emulations.  The problem is that a synthesist plays his or her string patch on a keyboard, rather than a violin, and that makes all the difference in the world.  We adjust the filter and envelopes to suit, generally, left-handed chordal accompaniment, and this just isn't how string parts are written and sound.  For example, in order to sound realistically orchestral, chords should be arranged in open position, rather than in closed position, as a keyboardist plays them.  So, imitating a string section requires much more than merely programming a good patch; it takes playing the music that suits a string section as well.  But I'll agree with you that it isn't sensible to buy one instrument in order to imitate another instrument.  Still, it is nice to have the potential, if ever it's needed. 

My string patches begin with an imitation approach.  A lush string section sound is the starting point, but I nearly always modify the patch so as to achieve a lush synthesized string sound.  That's usually my goal, rather than trying to fool some one that I've got an orchestra in my basement.  I consider the synthesized string sound to be among the sweetest and most useful of all synthesizer patches.  But it is a sound of its own and quite distinct from an authentic orchestra, and I prefer to keep it that way.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 02:37:27 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #365 on: September 18, 2017, 10:56:06 AM »
I don't want this discussion to make it seem as if I'm criticizing the Prophet 12.  I'm not criticizing, but comparing.  One month with a P12 completely turned me around.  My opinion of it drastically changed for the better, so that I'm presently hoping that my Poly Evolver Keyboard will soon sell on Craigslist, so that I can buy one.  That should say it all.  There's nothing like a Prophet 12!

Well, I never thought I would see the day ;)

Strangely I have backed down from selling my PEK, P12 and P2. I couldn't bring myself to do it, loosing those three to get a Modal 002 seemed like a good idea to begin with but after some thought I have stuck with the idea that the combination of the three DSI synths offers much more than a shiny new 002.

Also the thought of getting rid of the PEK was haunting me a bit, I had got to the position where I only wanted to sell it to someone that I knew would treat it well; a bit like screening prospective husbands for a daughter, none of whom would ever be good enough!

I am very interested in what you come up with on your new P12 once you have studied it to the same level as you have with the Evolver, I'm guessing there will be some good stuff.


Bob the Dog: If I was in your shoes I'd do the same choice.  I think we all thought about what we could sell to get a Modal, but despite the fine look of the that instrument I think you'd miss the versatility of the combined DSI's. 
DSI Equipment: Poly Evolver Keyboard, Evolver desktop, Prophet 8,  Pro-2, OB6, P-12
 

https://Soundcloud.com/wavescape-1

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #366 on: September 18, 2017, 11:04:21 AM »
I don't want this discussion to make it seem as if I'm criticizing the Prophet 12.  I'm not criticizing, but comparing.  One month with a P12 completely turned me around.  My opinion of it drastically changed for the better, so that I'm presently hoping that my Poly Evolver Keyboard will soon sell on Craigslist, so that I can buy one.  That should say it all.  There's nothing like a Prophet 12!

Ok,  that's just fine sacred synthesis, go ahead and leave us few dwindling PEK owners to keep it's legacy alive ;).     In all seriousness though, I am surprised you have it up for sale, though I do fully understand your desire to get the P12.   
DSI Equipment: Poly Evolver Keyboard, Evolver desktop, Prophet 8,  Pro-2, OB6, P-12
 

https://Soundcloud.com/wavescape-1

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #367 on: September 18, 2017, 11:15:25 AM »
Oh yeah?  Well, to get you back for that comment, Soundquest, I'm going to blame it all on you.  Ever since our last exchange, I've been in a sleepless panic that my Poly Evolver Keyboard was going to suffer a major break down, due to its advanced age.  There, take that!  :D

Remember...I have two PEKs.  So I haven't completely abandoned the Evolver litter. 

You'll have to forgive me, but I'm a pulse width modulation maniac.  I want four oscillators of PWM, and the Prophet 12 has them.  Plus, the layering, and the...and the....I admit it's not an easy decision, but I'm trying to be musical, rather than sentimental.

I can't remember if you had spent some time with a P12, but when you do, you won't have to apologize to me if your PEK is for sale the next day.  Oh, one can't substitute for the other; it's a matter of changing instruments altogether.  But one is as good as the other, each in its own way.

Of course, there's always the possibility that no one will buy my PEK.  In that case, I guess I'll be stuck being a long term PEKker  :-[
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 11:45:09 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #368 on: September 20, 2017, 09:31:42 AM »
Hmmn,  I guess I did start that whole ball rolling ;)    Since then I've had many mixed thoughts on what to do, but it's interesting that we both made similar decisions after studying the P12 for a few years

Firstly,  I only have only one PEK, so I decided to keep it as a classic, and make use of it, despite the idea it may get old and finiky someday.  It's combination of analog, waveform manipulations, and general layout I suspect will not be duplicated by DSI or others.   To keep it more viable to my continued use I had recently added a 5th voice  to it with a table top Evolver which I felt it always needed, or deserved.

Secondly, I'm selling few minor items (including the Tascam DP24 by the way) and judging from our busy-ness at work, counting on the holiday bonus.  So I decided to take the plunge next month.  Last night I actually rearranged the studio and left a open space on a stand for a P12.    :)
DSI Equipment: Poly Evolver Keyboard, Evolver desktop, Prophet 8,  Pro-2, OB6, P-12
 

https://Soundcloud.com/wavescape-1

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #369 on: May 18, 2020, 06:21:40 AM »
Wow, this thread is a goldmine for sound design on the Prophet 08 architecture... I better start taking some notes!