The Prophet '08 Among Prophets

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #60 on:** March 01, 2016, 02:55:09 PM »

The Prophet 600 is so basic a synthesizer - just the bare minimum. So you're saying the filter is kind of edgy?

Paul Dither · « **Reply #61 on:** March 01, 2016, 02:59:31 PM »

The filter is stepping. I was referring more to the oscillators' sound. Much weightier. If the Prophet '08 would be Pop, the Prophet 600 would be Punk. By which I mean: it sounds bigger, brassier, everything more to the extreme. The oscillators' sound is more "in your face," which can't really be said about the Prophet '08.

Paul Dither · « **Reply #62 on:** March 01, 2016, 03:16:28 PM »

In that sense, the Prophet 600 is certainly closer to the Prophet-5, the Pro One, and the Prophet-6 (in probably that order). The overall tone of the Prophet '08 is milder, mellower, which is probably why some people said it should rather be compared to the CEM-based Oberheims.

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #63 on:** March 01, 2016, 03:20:36 PM »

Yes, it does sound brassy and Oberheim-like , but I like that. The architecture is so similar to the Prophet 6.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z5c71OOZXo

Paul Dither · « **Reply #64 on:** March 01, 2016, 03:24:06 PM »

Hmm, I would call the typical Oberheim sound the opposite of brassy. The Prophet-6 would run circles around the 600.

What I typically mean by "brassy" is a somewhat hollow tone that rather emphasizes the extremes of the frequency spectrum. It has nothing to do with the sound being "fat" or not. It's basically what I would describe as the classic Prophet tone. The Oberheim sound fills out what's left over. It's in that sense that I think the OB-6 will be an ideal partner for the Prophet-6.

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #65 on:** March 01, 2016, 03:39:46 PM »

We synthesists have exceedingly fickle ears!

I like the whole Sequential Circuits/DSI range, and I think the Oberheim sound compliments it very well. So, where would you locate the Prophet 6 character in all this?

Paul Dither · « **Reply #66 on:** March 01, 2016, 03:44:20 PM »

The Prophet-6 is a typical Prophet, which is why those who don't like it as much say it's bad for pads (I'd say that's bollocks though), but better for basses, leads, and effects. It's sonically the opposite of the OB-6. They almost share the same features, but yet they sound so different. If you like Peter M. Mahr's latest OB-6 demos you'd have to get an OB-6 instead of a Prophet-6. If you want an updated Prophet '08, you need both. If you like the sounds of the old Prophets and the DSI sound in general, a Prophet-6 would serve you just fine. That's as simple as I can put it.

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #67 on:** March 01, 2016, 03:54:23 PM »

I'm impressed with both 6s, but I need to hear a lot more from the OB-6. I'm quite happy with my current set up regarding polyphony. It's monophony that has me searching for possible improvements. So, although I'd like to hear more OB-6 pads, it's especially its sawtooth solo and other similar patches that interest me.

And I'd have to agree with you. How could a Prophet synthesizer - any Prophet - be bad for pads? We're getting spoiled.

Paul Dither · « **Reply #68 on:** March 01, 2016, 04:08:15 PM »

I'd assume they'd be sweet. What I meant by the upgraded Prophet '08 and both is the following: The Prophet '08 is a great flexible analog standalone synth - probably the best you can get in terms of features, sound, and pricing. The Prophet-6 and the OB-6 are more specialized synths. They are more limited in terms of bells and whistles, but are incredibly good at what each of them is capable of (pure tone and filters). Both together cover almost anything you'll wanna have in terms of a true analog poly synth sound and will surpass the sonic flexibility of the Prophet '08. One will of course always argue that even if you combine both of them, they'll still not make up for the Prophet '08's mod matrix. Quantitatively that's true, but that's about it. I'd say a) you don't need that many mod slots if you know how to master the basics (which is also part of the charme and challenge), b) it makes designing sounds quicker, more gratifying, and c) even though the P-6 and OB-6 mod options seem super rudimentary, they can lead to quite complex results and it's not always as basic as the equation "one (LFO section) plus one (PolyMod/X-Mod)" suggests.

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #69 on:** March 01, 2016, 04:26:35 PM »

Well said.

It's a matter of sound designing approaches. One synthesist likes to sit at the instrument and experiment, searching even for hours for some exceptional sound he's never before heard. Another synthesist has very specific sounds in mind and knows exactly what architecture is needed to create and refine them. I'm definitely the latter type. That's why the Prophet '08 and Poly Evolver work so well for me. They're superb with details and refinement. But that's not to say this type of designing can't appreciate the odd synthesizer, like either of the 6s. There's room in my set up for one oddity, as long as it's very good at monophonic sounds. But I do have a problem with the single LFO, in spite of the workarounds.

Paul Dither · « **Reply #70 on:** March 01, 2016, 04:57:46 PM »

Oh, I need space for both approaches too - that goes without saying.

I'd say wait until the OB-6 is out, which shouldn't be too far away. And if you got no other option, I would just make use of the 30 days money back guarantee that Sweetwater offers. Seriously, if the OB-6 - or the Prophet-6 for that matter - don't convince you within that time frame, you can safely assume that they are not for you.

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #71 on:** March 01, 2016, 05:04:25 PM »

That's exactly what I intend to do. Meanwhile, we may hear from Vermona on their 14 synthesizer. I'm also anticipating Tom Oberheim's new SEM Plus module.

Fuseball · « **Reply #72 on:** March 02, 2016, 12:29:01 AM »

Whilst I don't, as yet, find the Prophet-6 as natural for making pads as a number of other synths I have, it's certainly not "bad" at them. It's pretty good at everything I try and make with it, and exceptional at some sounds. This time, thankfully, I didn't buy it as a P'08 replacement but as something of to sit alongside and compliment it.

It's a good point about the different approaches to sound design. I naturally work in a logical methodical way, which suits the P'08, dealing with absolute values and often with a specific result in mind. The P-6 takes me out of that comfort zone (a good thing) and is if anything slightly less intuitive for me. With the P'08 almost all my sounds are designed with LFOs in mind, whereas on the P-6 I try to make sounds as interesting as I can without any use of the LFO, knowing it can't be relied upon so easily to liven it up. In truth, the "one amount to all destinations" limitation is more of a frustration to me.

lnetzel · « **Reply #73 on:** March 04, 2016, 02:18:38 AM »

That thing about patch panel sheets (to document patches and share in a visual format I guess), why not just take a screenshots from SoundTower? You don't need the full version for that.

musicmaker · « **Reply #74 on:** March 05, 2016, 11:47:27 PM »

Hope there will be remake of the P8 in same format updated with USB MIDI (2.0 ?), P12 knobs in the same price range and perhaps an updated display like OLED. but DSI always wants to do something different, do the same is not their style, but an updated 8 voice bi-timbral poly synth in this price range would be welcome.

dswo · « **Reply #75 on:** March 09, 2016, 04:02:28 PM »

Just want to say I've been enjoying this conversation, especially the tips from Sacred Synthesis.

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #76 on:** March 09, 2016, 04:45:36 PM »

Thanks, Dswo.

I rarely spend time any longer on the other synth forums, but today I stopped by the Moog Forum. There's an interesting thread on the Prophet-6. It was mostly positive, but even in the midst of the kind words directed towards DSI, there were the usual criticisms of the Prophet '08 and its "thin" tone. I'm glad I don't consider such comments to be worth a cow flop, and it reminded me of something I've wanted to post for a while, I suppose somewhat ironically.

If you're trying to make a decision about musical instruments, take the forums very lightly. They can serve the purpose of providing additional information to company and music store websites, but the voluminous comments and opinions can confuse and lead you astray when it comes to making an actual decision - the decision that is right for you. I have found far more bad advice on these forums than good, and been led in the wrong direction more often than the right. People often suggest that you do or buy what they would do or buy, and give advice that suits their interests, as if you would benefit from being them. I would say, if you're trying to make a gear decision, eliminate or at least limit this mass of forum twaddle, be selective in what you read, and go light on opinions and heavy on facts. Spend your time analyzing your own needs and comparing them with each instrument's capabilities. Careful private research based entirely on facts is far more beneficial than reading a thousand opinions and then trying to come up with their average. YouTube videos are very helpful, even if the sound quality is only moderate. But cut way down on the volumes of viewpoints, which can cloud your thinking.

I say this recalling all the warnings I've come across the past seven years concerning the Prophet '08's and Poly Evolver's dreadfully bad Curtiss filters, thin tone, and etc. Right. I am sooooo happy with these instruments, and if I had taken too seriously this mass of negative opinions, I wouldn't have bought them; I would have bought, instead, what was right fro some one else.

I've been fortunate enough to be able to consult with a few knowledgeable pals on this forum, such as Paul Dither, and it's been both helpful and enjoyable. But most of what is found on the forums in general strikes me as utter rubbish when it comes to clarity of thought, so that going against the tide has been the wiser method of making right decisions. There's much to be said for a generous amount of self-reliance when making these decisions.

Fuseball · « **Reply #77 on:** March 09, 2016, 11:41:12 PM »

I've found constantly defending the Prophet'08 on other forums gets pretty tiresome after a while. Some people, sadly, don't want to listen. I think a lot of it is down to use of language. It's easy and lazy to throw around words like "thin", "bad" and "hate". I don't hate any instrument I've played unless it was actually physically broken and unplayable in some way. All I can ever state categorically is that a particular instrument isn't to my taste.

The one thing I always try to keep in mind when listening to demos or reading reviews is - Can it make sounds that I want to hear in the music that I make? It's easy to be impressed by many things a synth can do but at least 90% of those things are not things that I would use. Although I could be sold a Swiss Army knife, sometimes all I really want is an excellent corkscrew.

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #78 on:** March 10, 2016, 06:53:22 AM »

I don't even bother trying to defend the instruments I like. I'm just marveling at the amount of blather one has to wade through in the search for a miniscule amount of valuable information. Oh, the hours I've wasted late at night. There's a better way. I now do very specific searches on Google for whatever interests me, and these may lead me to a forum, but at least it's a narrowly defined, and therefore, short, visit. I find this approach to be a time-saver. This is the only forum I actually peruse, but that's only because I'm expected to as a moderator.

Soundquest · « **Reply #79 on:** March 10, 2016, 08:41:37 AM »

As far as I'm concerned most of that "thin sound' PO 8 talk was mynah bird syndrome. I had thought that had died down long ago, though I don't really visit any other forums. There are simply too many great recordings out there with PO8 that squash the "thin" accusation.