The Official Sequential/DSI Forum

End of the Prophet 12!

Mr Kay

  • **
  • 101
    • The Disease
Re: End of the Prophet 12!
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2018, 10:36:27 AM »
Isnt the p12 already kind of a version of the pro 2? (I own both btw), they are different in that the p2 interacts more with other gear with its two midi outs and the cv connectivity. Also the sequencer and filters ++ but other than that, they are fairly similar.

Actually, the Pro 2 was a one voice P'12 with a lot of extra features and the filters later used on the P6 and OB6  ;)

LoboLives

Re: End of the Prophet 12!
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2018, 11:42:17 AM »
A bit sad about this one, hopefully they have something similar coming up.

Still for me my favourite DSI synth. Hopefully they will replace it with something fully digital.

Except for the filters and amp. Iím pretty sure Sequential will always have an analog filter and analog amp in their synths.

Re: End of the Prophet 12!
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2018, 12:46:57 PM »
Golly Iím glad I bought my P12K when I did.  Iíd had the module version for a while and just loved it, such a creative synth, Iíve made some really incredible  evolving sounds with her. 

Anyway, bought the keys version while it was on sale in Australia. Soon afterward it went up, assumably due to the Aussie dollar to over $500 above its pre-sale price. 

I guess there is always the 2nd hand market but Iím very glad I got it new when I did, or Iíd be rushing out now and paying the current pricing.

Re: End of the Prophet 12!
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2018, 01:10:05 PM »
.....hopefully they will send her off properly.....by adding Beat Sync :)

Ppppllleeaaasseee!!!!!

Razmo

  • ***
  • 2168
  • I am shadow...
    • Kaleidoscopic Artworks
Re: End of the Prophet 12!
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2018, 04:48:03 PM »
I somehow had a feeling this was about to happen... so now this synth is not on my list anymore because I'm pretty certain that the next synth we will see from Sequential will be it's replacement...
If you need me, follow the shadows...

LoboLives

Re: End of the Prophet 12!
« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2018, 07:23:04 PM »
I somehow had a feeling this was about to happen... so now this synth is not on my list anymore because I'm pretty certain that the next synth we will see from Sequential will be it's replacement...

And likely a million times better with more capabilities.

Re: End of the Prophet 12!
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2018, 07:28:09 PM »
Oh wow - that's sad and yet great too.
I think the LE edition looks ace! :)
I absolutely LOVE my Prophet 12 and it being discontinued might result in it becoming a 'classic' - I can't think of a modern synth more deserving of the label.
It'd be brilliant if DSI/Sequential released a Prophet 16, especially if it mixed both analogue oscillators from the REV2 with the digital one's of the P12 - that'd be mega.
Can't wait to see what they do next, but whatever it is it's unlikely I'll ever relinquish my Prophet 12 for it.
I do hope whatever its successor is gets a better keybed though - it's the only thing I'd change about the synth.
In fact if they've given a new keyed to the LE, I may try and get one.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 07:31:40 PM by jazzygb1 »

Re: End of the Prophet 12!
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2018, 01:43:16 AM »
I do hope whatever its successor is gets a better keybed though

Iím with you there. I guess thereís a strong chance theyíll use the keybed used in the Rev2 which feels much nicer.

Razmo

  • ***
  • 2168
  • I am shadow...
    • Kaleidoscopic Artworks
Re: End of the Prophet 12!
« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2018, 01:56:17 AM »
Here is my guess on what the replacement will be:

With the disappearance of the 12, there will be no digital front end synth in the products anymore exept the X, which is not really a replacement, so I bet it'll be a synth with a digital front end. I do not believe it will be a direct replacement, but rather something new, just with the same structure of Digital OSC -> Analog Filters. I do not believe in a P12 rev2, or an Evolver rev2... it'll be something else.

I bet that with the new stereo SSM chips in the X, that we'll probably see a synth using those, and thus a true stereo synth, so that far we could probably see a bit of the Evolver, but it'll be more like a Prophet X, with the sampling functionality taken out, and replaced with more powerful digital oscillators.

I also think we'll see at least 8 stereo voices /16 mono voices like on the X. And of course the now standard FX engine in the end and the TP9/S keybed.

Id be happy with such a synth because I already have the Curtis filter sound in my REV2... that was the only thing that irritated me a bit with the P12 because I always thought that the combi of digital osc. and Curtis filters sounded a bit flat and uninspiring... not bad, but I'd definitely rather have a new digital front end synth from Sequential with the SSM filters or maybe even something with a state variable in it.

I'm excited to see what the replacement is going to be :)
If you need me, follow the shadows...

LoboLives

Re: End of the Prophet 12!
« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2018, 02:18:33 AM »
Here is my guess on what the replacement will be:

With the disappearance of the 12, there will be no digital front end synth in the products anymore exept the X, which is not really a replacement, so I bet it'll be a synth with a digital front end. I do not believe it will be a direct replacement, but rather something new, just with the same structure of Digital OSC -> Analog Filters. I do not believe in a P12 rev2, or an Evolver rev2... it'll be something else.

I bet that with the new stereo SSM chips in the X, that we'll probably see a synth using those, and thus a true stereo synth, so that far we could probably see a bit of the Evolver, but it'll be more like a Prophet X, with the sampling functionality taken out, and replaced with more powerful digital oscillators.

I also think we'll see at least 8 stereo voices /16 mono voices like on the X. And of course the now standard FX engine in the end and the TP9/S keybed.

Id be happy with such a synth because I already have the Curtis filter sound in my REV2... that was the only thing that irritated me a bit with the P12 because I always thought that the combi of digital osc. and Curtis filters sounded a bit flat and uninspiring... not bad, but I'd definitely rather have a new digital front end synth from Sequential with the SSM filters or maybe even something with a state variable in it.

I'm excited to see what the replacement is going to be :)

I wonder if the oscillator section will have a small OLED screen like how the PX does for the samples but instead this shows all the wavetables. Also with Dave mentioning they are working on multitimbrality if this will be the first new Sequential synth to offer more than two engines.

Razmo

  • ***
  • 2168
  • I am shadow...
    • Kaleidoscopic Artworks
Re: End of the Prophet 12!
« Reply #50 on: November 17, 2018, 03:15:38 AM »
Here is my guess on what the replacement will be:

With the disappearance of the 12, there will be no digital front end synth in the products anymore exept the X, which is not really a replacement, so I bet it'll be a synth with a digital front end. I do not believe it will be a direct replacement, but rather something new, just with the same structure of Digital OSC -> Analog Filters. I do not believe in a P12 rev2, or an Evolver rev2... it'll be something else.

I bet that with the new stereo SSM chips in the X, that we'll probably see a synth using those, and thus a true stereo synth, so that far we could probably see a bit of the Evolver, but it'll be more like a Prophet X, with the sampling functionality taken out, and replaced with more powerful digital oscillators.

I also think we'll see at least 8 stereo voices /16 mono voices like on the X. And of course the now standard FX engine in the end and the TP9/S keybed.

Id be happy with such a synth because I already have the Curtis filter sound in my REV2... that was the only thing that irritated me a bit with the P12 because I always thought that the combi of digital osc. and Curtis filters sounded a bit flat and uninspiring... not bad, but I'd definitely rather have a new digital front end synth from Sequential with the SSM filters or maybe even something with a state variable in it.

I'm excited to see what the replacement is going to be :)

I wonder if the oscillator section will have a small OLED screen like how the PX does for the samples but instead this shows all the wavetables. Also with Dave mentioning they are working on multitimbrality if this will be the first new Sequential synth to offer more than two engines.

When you look at the past synths, it's obvious that Sequential is reusing past technology... with the Pro2 we saw part of the oscillators of the P12 reused... with the P6 we saw the new FX section which has been reused on any synth after that one... with the X we see part of the P12 oscillators too... again and again they are reusing old technology, slightly changed and enhanced in some way added with something new... this is why I believe that the next synth will very well have the same genes from some of the past, and the most likely is to reuse the SSM chips from the X for something else... at the same time we see that the TP9S and the FX engine is now a standard... likewise has the dual engine been, so I hardly believe it'll be multitimbral... if they are working on multitimbrality i bet it is a special product aimed at studio use more than live use... an "oddity" like the Tempest was.

Everything is speculation based on experience... but I'm pretty certain that we'll see another digital front end synth because the removal of the Prophet 12 leaves a BIG HOLE in the different types of synthesis in Sequential's repertoire now. I simply cannot imagine Dave wanting this... something has to compete with the PEAK, QUANTUM etc...
If you need me, follow the shadows...

Sleep of Reason

Re: End of the Prophet 12!
« Reply #51 on: November 17, 2018, 06:37:36 AM »
Whatever it is, it would be quite bullheaded to feature the PA397 considering all the flak that filter receives and all the options available these days.

Re: End of the Prophet 12!
« Reply #52 on: November 17, 2018, 07:24:22 AM »
If they do replace it with a new synth I hope they keep the P12's big OLED display.
I'm not a fan of the tiny OLED used in the REV2 and even more importantly, keep the numeric Keypad and dedicated bank select buttons from the Prophet 12 too.
Having them makes navigation MUCH quicker and I can't emphasise enough how much the lack of both these things on the REV2 frustrates me sometimes.
I've noticed that the keypad and bank select buttons have been dropped on the X too! :(
Oh well, just another reason to love my Prophet 12 I suppose! :)

Re: End of the Prophet 12!
« Reply #53 on: November 17, 2018, 07:28:10 AM »
I really dig the new Sequential plate on the front of the LE though.
It'd be great if DSI would sell the plates separately so original owners could pimp our existing Prophet 12's! :)

LoboLives

Re: End of the Prophet 12!
« Reply #54 on: November 17, 2018, 08:22:25 PM »
Here is my guess on what the replacement will be:

With the disappearance of the 12, there will be no digital front end synth in the products anymore exept the X, which is not really a replacement, so I bet it'll be a synth with a digital front end. I do not believe it will be a direct replacement, but rather something new, just with the same structure of Digital OSC -> Analog Filters. I do not believe in a P12 rev2, or an Evolver rev2... it'll be something else.

I bet that with the new stereo SSM chips in the X, that we'll probably see a synth using those, and thus a true stereo synth, so that far we could probably see a bit of the Evolver, but it'll be more like a Prophet X, with the sampling functionality taken out, and replaced with more powerful digital oscillators.

I also think we'll see at least 8 stereo voices /16 mono voices like on the X. And of course the now standard FX engine in the end and the TP9/S keybed.

Id be happy with such a synth because I already have the Curtis filter sound in my REV2... that was the only thing that irritated me a bit with the P12 because I always thought that the combi of digital osc. and Curtis filters sounded a bit flat and uninspiring... not bad, but I'd definitely rather have a new digital front end synth from Sequential with the SSM filters or maybe even something with a state variable in it.

I'm excited to see what the replacement is going to be :)

I wonder if the oscillator section will have a small OLED screen like how the PX does for the samples but instead this shows all the wavetables. Also with Dave mentioning they are working on multitimbrality if this will be the first new Sequential synth to offer more than two engines.

When you look at the past synths, it's obvious that Sequential is reusing past technology... with the Pro2 we saw part of the oscillators of the P12 reused... with the P6 we saw the new FX section which has been reused on any synth after that one... with the X we see part of the P12 oscillators too... again and again they are reusing old technology, slightly changed and enhanced in some way added with something new... this is why I believe that the next synth will very well have the same genes from some of the past, and the most likely is to reuse the SSM chips from the X for something else... at the same time we see that the TP9S and the FX engine is now a standard... likewise has the dual engine been, so I hardly believe it'll be multitimbral... if they are working on multitimbrality i bet it is a special product aimed at studio use more than live use... an "oddity" like the Tempest was.

Everything is speculation based on experience... but I'm pretty certain that we'll see another digital front end synth because the removal of the Prophet 12 leaves a BIG HOLE in the different types of synthesis in Sequential's repertoire now. I simply cannot imagine Dave wanting this... something has to compete with the PEAK, QUANTUM etc...

Give me those Vector and P12 wavetables and run them into that SSM filter and add some sequencers and dual effects and I'm good to go....just make sure it's blue.

Re: End of the Prophet 12!
« Reply #55 on: November 18, 2018, 02:01:19 PM »
Give me those Vector and P12 wavetables and run them into that SSM filter and add some sequencers and dual effects and I'm good to go....just make sure it's blue.

+1, especially if stereo filters like the X and PEK. Also +1 on the blue.
Prophet 12, Modal 002, MFB Dominion 1, Behringer DeepMind 12D, Korg Polysix & EX-8000, Roland JX-8P, Ensoniq SQ-80, Kawai K3m and now an OB-6!

Re: End of the Prophet 12!
« Reply #56 on: November 18, 2018, 03:04:56 PM »
Definitely saw this coming.  I too am hoping for a Prophet VS for the modern age.

Love my Prophet 12 to death.  No matter what comes out, its never leaving my studio.  It was my first DSI synth and is used in a lot of my live concerts.  It sounds amazing through a deep reverb.
Quantum | Montage 7 | Moog One | 14u x 104hp Eurorack | H9000 | SoundCraft GB4 24 Mixer | MixPre 10T

Re: End of the Prophet 12!
« Reply #57 on: November 18, 2018, 03:11:32 PM »
Can we take a moment and talk a bit about what made the Prophet 12 so great? Im not the biggest synth wizard so it would be interessting for me to know your thoughts?

I feel the design is very simplistic, With one audio path with some branching at the delay and feedback. Also the ton of mod posibilities. Is the instrument so great only because of all the content it has, or are there some particular design characteristics that make it super special?

Id love to hear your thoughts :)

Re: End of the Prophet 12!
« Reply #58 on: November 18, 2018, 06:11:04 PM »
Can we take a moment and talk a bit about what made the Prophet 12 so great? Im not the biggest synth wizard so it would be interessting for me to know your thoughts?

I feel the design is very simplistic, With one audio path with some branching at the delay and feedback. Also the ton of mod posibilities. Is the instrument so great only because of all the content it has, or are there some particular design characteristics that make it super special?

Id love to hear your thoughts :)

What makes a Stradivarius great, they only have 4 strings?

Quality is not created by design alone, especially in synthesizers.  It's about the sum of the parts.  Or another way to say it is, to see why it has the quality it does, you have to account for ALL aspects of it's design, AND how they fit together.

First and foremost, the P12 *sounds* great, which is the main requirement for any musical instrument.  It's also ridiculously flexible for a polyphonic analog synth with programmable memory (26 sources, 97 destinations, for TWO layers!); it's basically a 12-voice modular that you can save patches on, but despite it's depth, it's close to knob-per-function.  It has a massive amount of timbral variety available just from the waveforms, tunings, AM & FM modulations, even before you hit the character or filter sections.  You can use sync, wave mod and FM at the same time.  It does 4op linear FM.  The 2 assignable strips are both position and pressure sensitive, in addition to the 2 standard wheels and aftertouch, giving you 7 dimensions of performance modulation at any time.  You can store programs in Playlists, which is a lifesaver for live performance.   It sends changes as MIDI CCs as well as NRPNs, so you can sequence performances including changes to the control panel.  And on and on.

All of these things add up to a true instrument that is crazy deep, yet fairly immediate to program (if you know what you're doing), makes it relatively easy to prepare for live performances, and gives you many expressive controls for articulating your own phrasings with your patches that simply aren't possible on other synths without additional external controllers (and that is IF they can even respond to those inputs).

There are plenty of other things to mention, but hopefully that helps you see why it's not just a simple ole "one audio path" synth.

Re: End of the Prophet 12!
« Reply #59 on: November 18, 2018, 08:08:44 PM »
Can we take a moment and talk a bit about what made the Prophet 12 so great? Im not the biggest synth wizard so it would be interessting for me to know your thoughts?

I feel the design is very simplistic, With one audio path with some branching at the delay and feedback. Also the ton of mod posibilities. Is the instrument so great only because of all the content it has, or are there some particular design characteristics that make it super special?

Id love to hear your thoughts :)
What makes a Stradivarius great, they only have 4 strings?

Quality is not created by design alone, especially in synthesizers.  It's about the sum of the parts.  Or another way to say it is, to see why it has the quality it does, you have to account for ALL aspects of it's design, AND how they fit together.

First and foremost, the P12 *sounds* great, which is the main requirement for any musical instrument.  It's also ridiculously flexible for a polyphonic analog synth with programmable memory (26 sources, 97 destinations, for TWO layers!); it's basically a 12-voice modular that you can save patches on, but despite it's depth, it's close to knob-per-function.  It has a massive amount of timbral variety available just from the waveforms, tunings, AM & FM modulations, even before you hit the character or filter sections.  You can use sync, wave mod and FM at the same time.  It does 4op linear FM.  The 2 assignable strips are both position and pressure sensitive, in addition to the 2 standard wheels and aftertouch, giving you 7 dimensions of performance modulation at any time.  You can store programs in Playlists, which is a lifesaver for live performance.   It sends changes as MIDI CCs as well as NRPNs, so you can sequence performances including changes to the control panel.  And on and on.

All of these things add up to a true instrument that is crazy deep, yet fairly immediate to program (if you know what you're doing), makes it relatively easy to prepare for live performances, and gives you many expressive controls for articulating your own phrasings with your patches that simply aren't possible on other synths without additional external controllers (and that is IF they can even respond to those inputs).

There are plenty of other things to mention, but hopefully that helps you see why it's not just a simple ole "one audio path" synth.


+1


Very well said. :)


It's a very complete instrument. The two slider strips are great, the modulation options are excellent, the UI is very well implemented (though not perfect) and then the unique things like the 4 delays, the analogue distortion just give it something many other synth'd don't have.
I like that it has a high pass filter too - it's just great!


There's really only 2 or 3 things i'd change...


It should have a better keybed (the keyboard used is too light and aftertouch too easily accidentally triggered). The Rev2's keyboard is MUCH better.


There should be a way to solo/mute oscillators.


Beat sync for the Arp would be good too.


That said, it's still an utterly ace synth! :)