Potential issue w/ Sending Program Changes from LIVE

dp

Potential issue w/ Sending Program Changes from LIVE
« on: October 07, 2018, 05:46:03 PM »
Hey folks,

Looking for anyone experiencing the following issues (or that can recreate them) with sending Program Changes to the REV2 via Ableton Live's "Pgm Change" feature in a MIDI clip...

Firstly, I've updated to the recent (1.1.4.26) firmware and in Global Menu I have Multimode set to "off" and I have MIDI Prog Enable set to "on."

For simplified purposes, let's say I have three MIDI tracks (in LIVE), each containing a blank MIDI clip. None of these MIDI clips are looped. In each I've entered some Pgm Change data. Seems that the REV2 doesn't utilize use the "Bank" portion in Live but instead uses "Sub" as the bank number and "Pgm" number as you'd expect.

So I activate a clip in let's say, track one (can be any track). The REV2 accepts the Program Change. Then next track .. accepts the change. Then the last clip/track and it accepts it. Now the problem. If I activate any of the clips again, once each has already been engaged once, the REV2 does nothing. But If I go to any of these clips and change the Pgm Change data (even if by one number) and activate that clip, the REV2 accepts the change.

Here's something that confuses me even more. If I move all of these clips (each with different Pgm Change data) into a single track, I can activate each one as many times as I would like and the REV2 accepts the change.

The same issue occurs in the latest version of LIVE 10 and also in LIVE 9.7.6. So this leads me to belive it is not an issue with LIVE.

My setup would highly benefit from having these clips in a track of their own (so that's not a solution for me).

Anyone know what's going on?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 06:22:56 PM by dp »

Re: Potential issue w/ Sending Program Changes from LIVE
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2018, 12:11:19 AM »
I don't have my Rev2 right now, so I can't test but I already had that kind of setup and it worked. Some differences though :

  • I was not using the latest firmware
  • I only had ONE track with different clips in session view, each with a program change as well
  • I set the Rev2 to slave mode - not sure it has impact or not

Next week, I'll be able to look at that. Care to share your project so I can test it directly ?
I guess you're using the external instrument, right ?

dp

Re: Potential issue w/ Sending Program Changes from LIVE
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2018, 08:14:52 AM »
I don't have my Rev2 right now, so I can't test but I already had that kind of setup and it worked. Some differences though :

  • I was not using the latest firmware
  • I only had ONE track with different clips in session view, each with a program change as well
  • I set the Rev2 to slave mode - not sure it has impact or not

Next week, I'll be able to look at that. Care to share your project so I can test it directly ?
I guess you're using the external instrument, right ?

Hey theAndroid,

It works as expected when one using one track (session view) with multiple clips int eh same track. But the issue I'm having in when I have multiple tracks, with one clip in each (each requested a different program change). With my setup I need to have each program change be in a different track. Obviously this should work, so something is up.

I had this issue before I updated to the latest firmware (before that I has several version behind).

When you say "I set the Rev2 to slave mode" ... for which global parameter? I checked the manual and there are several parameters that have some from of slave option. But yeah, not sure if this would matter. Maybe though.

Here's a WeTransfer link to a test .als file I created - https://we.tl/t-nSw8wbkB8n. I used this stripped down Set to deduce any errors in my actual performance set. The issue happens with this test .als as well.

Thanks much
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 08:43:55 AM by dp »

Re: Potential issue w/ Sending Program Changes from LIVE
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2018, 09:04:39 AM »
I think it was the MIDI clock mode param set to Slave (because the main tempo is dictated by Live in my case, this way my presets have the right tempo too, especially LFO / FX rates etc).

Indeed it's not the same structure, I only use one track.
Also, I'm using the External Instrument device, to get the audio back into Live. Have you tried this way ? (just to see if it can solve the issue or help spot the problem).

dp

Re: Potential issue w/ Sending Program Changes from LIVE
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2018, 12:20:48 PM »
I think it was the MIDI clock mode param set to Slave (because the main tempo is dictated by Live in my case, this way my presets have the right tempo too, especially LFO / FX rates etc).

Indeed it's not the same structure, I only use one track.
Also, I'm using the External Instrument device, to get the audio back into Live. Have you tried this way ? (just to see if it can solve the issue or help spot the problem).

I'll try the External Instrument device to see if the issue persists, but this wouldn't be a solution for my live performance set because in my current set I have several tracks, separated into Groups (each Group representing a song) with midi clips in each of them (some having the Program Change info) .. and I have just one track for the REV2 stereo input ... with a effects rack in it (one chain for each song).

If I use the External Instrument device, I'd have multiple tracks with REV2 input .... hmmmm, wait, maybe the each External Instrument device only allows REV2 input from that instance of the External Instrument device? I'll have to test when home. Although who's to say this will fix the Program Change issue. We'll see

Thanks for the ideas

dp

Re: Potential issue w/ Sending Program Changes from LIVE
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2018, 06:24:46 AM »
I think it was the MIDI clock mode param set to Slave (because the main tempo is dictated by Live in my case, this way my presets have the right tempo too, especially LFO / FX rates etc).

Indeed it's not the same structure, I only use one track.
Also, I'm using the External Instrument device, to get the audio back into Live. Have you tried this way ? (just to see if it can solve the issue or help spot the problem).

I'll try the External Instrument device to see if the issue persists, but this wouldn't be a solution for my live performance set because in my current set I have several tracks, separated into Groups (each Group representing a song) with midi clips in each of them (some having the Program Change info) .. and I have just one track for the REV2 stereo input ... with a effects rack in it (one chain for each song).

If I use the External Instrument device, I'd have multiple tracks with REV2 input .... hmmmm, wait, maybe the each External Instrument device only allows REV2 input from that instance of the External Instrument device? I'll have to test when home. Although who's to say this will fix the Program Change issue. We'll see

Thanks for the ideas

Well using the External Instrument device doesn't resolve the problem. And the audio signal comes through all instances of External Instrument device. Oh well.

If anyone can test this (see link above for a .als for testing) on any external hard synth to see if this happens for them, I'd appreciate teh help "debugging" this issue.

Cheers