Rev does not transmit aftertouch

Rev does not transmit aftertouch
« on: September 22, 2018, 06:11:20 AM »
I really want to like the Rev2, and I'm hoping it's just my unit. Aftertouch works fine on local sounds, but it doesn't work at all on external sounds.

I've confirmed it's not the sound source by connecting my Novation Remote 25.  Someone please tell me external aftertouch works fine on their unit.
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Re: Rev does not transmit aftertouch
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2018, 09:57:15 AM »
Correction:  the Rev2 does transmit aftertouch.  Just not from layer B. =(

Moog One <> Prophet Rev2 16V <>  Andromeda <> Kronos 61 <> Nord Stage 2 HA76 <> Integra 7 <> Minilogue XD module <> Blofeld desktop <> Behringer Model D <> Minitaur <> Slim Phatty <> Matrix 1000 <> Micron <> Privia PX-5S <>  MODX7 <> TG77 <> ASM Hydrasynth <> Perform VE <> FCB1010

Re: Rev does not transmit aftertouch
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2018, 11:11:54 AM »
Still no luck with aftertouch transmission on Layer B after upgrading to 1.1.4.25.  I do see there have been several multimode / layer B issues that were addressed in previous versions, so I'll patiently hope that a future OS update will fix this.

Main OS 1.1.4.18
    Bug Fix: Various Multi Mode fixes

Main OS 1.1.4.13
    Bug Fix: Mulitmode On, Stack On, Poly seq mode both layers, hung notes on B layer when disengaging Play

Main OS 1.1.4.9
Bug Fix: Arp relatch not working on Layer B
Bug Fix: Gated sequencer, step mode, Layer B works differently than layer A
Bug Fix: Multi on, sending program change message affects both layers
Bug Fix: Multi on, sending all notes off on single channel affects both layers

Main OS 1.0.9.4
    Bug Fix: Multi Mode on, Pitch, [Aftertouch], and Mod wheel data only transmitted on base channel
    Bug Fix: Multi Mode on, if same note sent to both channels at same time, note on ignored on layer B
    Bug Fix: Layer B sequencer not triggering from sequencer jack
    Bug Fix: Multi Mode on, Stack/Split on, note sent on base channel trigger layer B
    Bug Fix: External sync on, Split on, gated sequencer not functioning on Layer B
Moog One <> Prophet Rev2 16V <>  Andromeda <> Kronos 61 <> Nord Stage 2 HA76 <> Integra 7 <> Minilogue XD module <> Blofeld desktop <> Behringer Model D <> Minitaur <> Slim Phatty <> Matrix 1000 <> Micron <> Privia PX-5S <>  MODX7 <> TG77 <> ASM Hydrasynth <> Perform VE <> FCB1010

shiihs

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Re: Rev does not transmit aftertouch
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2018, 04:40:49 AM »
...so I'll patiently hope that a future OS update will fix this.

Best to contact support to make sure they are officially aware of the problem.
--
gear: prophet rev2 16 voice, kawai NV10, casio wk-7600, Roland Integra-7, supercollider, ardour

links:

https://www.youtube.com/stefaanhimpe
https://soundcloud.com/stefaanhimpe
https://technogems.blogspot.com
https://a-touch-of-music.blogspot.com/

Re: Rev does not transmit aftertouch
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2018, 01:06:24 PM »
...so I'll patiently hope that a future OS update will fix this.

Best to contact support to make sure they are officially aware of the problem.

I just emailed Sequential to report my aftertouch and stuck note issues.  Thanks for the reminder.  8)
Moog One <> Prophet Rev2 16V <>  Andromeda <> Kronos 61 <> Nord Stage 2 HA76 <> Integra 7 <> Minilogue XD module <> Blofeld desktop <> Behringer Model D <> Minitaur <> Slim Phatty <> Matrix 1000 <> Micron <> Privia PX-5S <>  MODX7 <> TG77 <> ASM Hydrasynth <> Perform VE <> FCB1010

Re: Rev does not transmit aftertouch
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2018, 07:39:17 AM »
Me sad panda.  My ticket with Sequential was closed as "solved".  They confirmed that the Rev2 cannot send aftertouch on layer B.  My own tests with a MIDI monitor show that in Split mode with Multimode on, layer B plays notes on channel 3, but the aftertouch data outputs on channel 2 (Rev2 base channel/layer A channel set to 2).  Here's their reply --

Being that the keyboard does not send out polyphonic aftertouch, it's somewhat of a grey area with since there is only 1 aftertouch sensor strip that runs the length of the keyboard, rather than a "zoned" section for aftertouch. If this were the case, the split point could not be transposed and set to the users desire. For the time being, aftertouch is being sent out of the base channel but I'll put this on the list of future feature requests.

Of course, I don't really buy into that explanation fully, as I've had multiple keyboard controllers that don't have polyphonic aftertouch and yet they were able to implement aftertouch properly over several keyboard zones in separate MIDI channels.  I'm still holding out hope that in a future OS update the feature request will get implemented.

I'm slowly growing to like my Rev2 more, but I'm thrown into doubt again and on the hunt yet again. The latest contender is an Arturia Keylab61 mkII (with its Analog Lab) for my tier 2 controller duties.  That's a discussion I need to have with my Sweetwater rep.  Dang, so close...
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 08:58:29 AM by psionic11 »
Moog One <> Prophet Rev2 16V <>  Andromeda <> Kronos 61 <> Nord Stage 2 HA76 <> Integra 7 <> Minilogue XD module <> Blofeld desktop <> Behringer Model D <> Minitaur <> Slim Phatty <> Matrix 1000 <> Micron <> Privia PX-5S <>  MODX7 <> TG77 <> ASM Hydrasynth <> Perform VE <> FCB1010

Gomjab

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Re: Rev does not transmit aftertouch
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2018, 08:12:25 AM »
Of course, I don't really buy into that explanation fully, as I've had multiple keyboard controllers that don't have polyphonic aftertouch and yet they were able to implement aftertouch properly over several keyboard zones in separate MIDI channels.  I'm still holding out hope that in a future OS update the feature request will get implemented.
Are you saying that you have a keyboard without polyAT that can independently send AT for one keyboard zone but not the others?  That seems impossible since the channel AT is a single strip.

Or are you saying that pressure applied in any keyboard zones outputs AT to all zone MIDI channels?

The later I can see and I agree that it would be good if the Rev2 would output the AT message on both channels 2 and 3 in the example given.

Also for some reason I don’t see the Sequential reply quoted in your response.  Seeing that text may answer my question.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 08:14:24 AM by Gomjab »

Re: Rev does not transmit aftertouch
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2018, 09:25:21 AM »
Apologies, I've corrected my post so that you can see the reply from Sequential support.

Regarding AT on separate MIDI zones -- yes, my keyboard controllers allow you to decide whether aftertouch works for a particular zone/channel as desired.  Of course you can't have polyphonic aftertouch, but you can turn AT on or off per zone, giving some degree of polyphonic aftertouch independence ("paraphonic AT" ;).  Don't forget that the MIDI spec incorporates filtering out certain messages per channel, including pitch bend data and monophonic or polyphonic aftertouch.   

Many, many MIDI controllers, processors, and patchbays use these filters to customize your rig's MIDI zones.  For example, with the MIDI Solutions MIDI Event Processor, my very old Digital Music MX-8 MIDI Patchbay, and especially my Kurzweil Expressionmate, the amount of control is crazy.  You can take an incoming MIDI channel and output it to a different channel. Transpose outgoing notes, create velocity cross-switching over different MIDI channels, merge MIDI, convert breath control to aftertouch and vice versa, expand or compand velocity response, define keyboard ranges and channel zones, mimic analog delay using MIDI (the famous D-50 "chase" function), play odd notes on even MIDI channels, etc, etc, etc...

I imagine these lesser-used MIDI specs are how DSI, Moog, and others have achieved poly-chaining.  I also imagine Stephen Kay who created KARMA knows these specs better than anyone else.  I recently discovered how to add a sorely missed MIDI DIN/USB merge function to my Kronos using KARMA as a workaround.  And I'm certain Dave Smith could also give the Prophet series MIDI merge functionality if he deemed it feasible and desirable from a manufacturer's viewpoint.

Sequential did note that they can implement some aftertouch workaround in the future, so the capability is there.  Here's to hoping...

Long live MIDI!
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 09:28:27 AM by psionic11 »
Moog One <> Prophet Rev2 16V <>  Andromeda <> Kronos 61 <> Nord Stage 2 HA76 <> Integra 7 <> Minilogue XD module <> Blofeld desktop <> Behringer Model D <> Minitaur <> Slim Phatty <> Matrix 1000 <> Micron <> Privia PX-5S <>  MODX7 <> TG77 <> ASM Hydrasynth <> Perform VE <> FCB1010

Re: Rev does not transmit aftertouch
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2018, 09:38:07 AM »
For those more technically inclined, here's sample output from my Rev2 demonstrating how Sequential implements aftertouch.

Multimode: ON
Base channel: 2
Layer A: channel 2
Layer B: channel 3
Split mode engaged

Note in this example how the note ON message is channel 3, and its corresponding note OFF is also on channel 3, as expected.  What is not expected or intuitive, is that the aftertouch info remains on the base channel, channel 2 in this case.

19:47:26.819 From Rev2 Note On 3 C4 86
19:47:27.303 From Rev2 Channel Pressure 2 6
19:47:27.308 From Rev2 Channel Pressure 2 12
19:47:27.315 From Rev2 Channel Pressure 2 35
19:47:27.321 From Rev2 Channel Pressure 2 49
19:47:27.327 From Rev2 Channel Pressure 2 56
19:47:27.333 From Rev2 Channel Pressure 2 62
19:47:27.339 From Rev2 Channel Pressure 2 65
19:47:27.345 From Rev2 Channel Pressure 2 67
19:47:27.351 From Rev2 Channel Pressure 2 69
19:47:27.357 From Rev2 Channel Pressure 2 71
19:47:27.363 From Rev2 Channel Pressure 2 72
19:47:27.369 From Rev2 Channel Pressure 2 73
19:47:27.375 From Rev2 Channel Pressure 2 72
19:47:27.381 From Rev2 Channel Pressure 2 73
19:47:27.387 From Rev2 Channel Pressure 2 71
19:47:27.393 From Rev2 Channel Pressure 2 69
19:47:27.399 From Rev2 Channel Pressure 2 65
19:47:27.405 From Rev2 Channel Pressure 2 41
19:47:27.411 From Rev2 Channel Pressure 2 0
19:47:27.476 From Rev2 Note Off 3 C4 0
Moog One <> Prophet Rev2 16V <>  Andromeda <> Kronos 61 <> Nord Stage 2 HA76 <> Integra 7 <> Minilogue XD module <> Blofeld desktop <> Behringer Model D <> Minitaur <> Slim Phatty <> Matrix 1000 <> Micron <> Privia PX-5S <>  MODX7 <> TG77 <> ASM Hydrasynth <> Perform VE <> FCB1010