The REV2 is a deep and VERY capable synth

Razmo · « **Reply #140 on:** November 11, 2018, 09:16:28 AM »

I had to try and do this sound... I just had to, and those of you who know me from the past, know why

I've always been a fan of Jarre's first two albums, and I love that Eminent 310 Unique sound so much, especially with a real 70's Electro Harmonix Smallstone phaser on it... so here is my best attempt at recreating that sound on the REV2:

http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Prophet310U.mp3

Make no mistake, I KNOW it won't beat or even sound fully like the real deal... I've had the 310U myself (the one I had is in the attached picture)... it's a crazy 70kg heavy monster that sounds like a reactor starting when it's turned on, and has a noisefloor above -40dB ... and it was a NIGHTMARE to keep alive.

I won't go into any technical details about why it's not possible to recreate that stringer sound on a lot of synths, but I can say as much that that ensemble effect is done by three delay lines, something not possible to do on many synths that easy... I simulate it by doing some special modulation of two oscillators acting like "delay lines"... so it's allready down by one delayline in comparison to the original.

Maybe i should just have named it "Prophet Stringer" ... still, I feel that this is the closest I'll get to the 310U.

Jump70 · « **Reply #141 on:** November 11, 2018, 10:31:44 AM »

Talk about taking the Rev2 to beautifull far deep and wide spaces , Razmo great patches there , Im interested in the purchase of these patches too.

dslsynth · « **Reply #142 on:** November 11, 2018, 12:55:51 PM »

Quote from: Razmo on November 11, 2018, 09:16:28 AM

I've always been a fan of Jarre's first two albums, and I love that Eminent 310 Unique sound so much

Speaking of Jarre: https://twitter.com/jeanmicheljarre/status/1061651132341280770

dslsynth · « **Reply #143 on:** November 11, 2018, 12:58:52 PM »

Quote from: Razmo on November 11, 2018, 09:16:28 AM

http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Prophet310U.mp3

Sounds very good. I recognized the sound and its original source almost immediately.

Razmo · « **Reply #144 on:** November 12, 2018, 09:39:41 AM »

New ambient program... 100% REV2, no external FX as usual.

This one is called "Atlantis Rising"

http://razmo.ziphoid.com/AtlantisRising.mp3

I have begun layering layers from already existing programs to get new timbres... it's a hell of a lot faster creating new sounds when you've created about half a bank so that you have some layers to work with. This does not mean that it's simply a matter of throwing two layers together... you still have to tweak a lot of parameters to get them to "melt together" the right way... in most cases you cannot even hear that it's a merging of other layers from two different programs sine they are tweaked quite a bit to fit together.

This one was a mix from two earlier programs called "Little Mermaid" and "Heavens Gate"... the last patch, instead of sounding like the PAD it actually is, gets a totally different feel to it... in this case it sounds more like an incredibly lush reverb when layered with the "Little Mermaid" layer.

There are seriously many easy programs to obtain this way, and the REV2 way of browsing layers from the MISC menu is a godsent for trying out the raw layers first... when the right combi is found, it's simply a matter of requesting the edit buffer from my editor, and voila! ... ready for tweaking

oh... by the way... none of the two layers use a reverb at all

... it's a flanger and a stereo delay.

Razmo · « **Reply #145 on:** November 13, 2018, 09:46:17 AM »

Working on getting some better bell tones out of the REV2 today:

http://razmo.ziphoid.com/MetalBell.mp3

Actually you can get really many convincing bell tones if you mix the two layers... one doing the long tonal release sound, while the other creates the short inharmonic transient hit of the bell... you don't need to make many hanges to the transient before the bell sound start to sound dramatically different

maxter · « **Reply #146 on:** November 17, 2018, 04:22:53 PM »

Great sounds as always, Razmo!

Speaking of combining and tweaking different layers made me think of an iPad app I used to use when I had the P'08, Patch Morpher, it really was great for this purpose. Unfortunately the Rev2 doesn't seem to be supported, and it hasn't been updated since 2014, so probably not something to hope for. Great idea though, maybe someone will pick up and do something similar eventually...

AlainHubert · « **Reply #147 on:** November 17, 2018, 08:48:19 PM »

Your Eminent patch is pretty spot on, Razmo. Great work !

Razmo · « **Reply #148 on:** November 18, 2018, 02:58:12 AM »

Quote from: maxter on November 17, 2018, 04:22:53 PM

Great sounds as always, Razmo!

Speaking of combining and tweaking different layers made me think of an iPad app I used to use when I had the P'08, Patch Morpher, it really was great for this purpose. Unfortunately the Rev2 doesn't seem to be supported, and it hasn't been updated since 2014, so probably not something to hope for. Great idea though, maybe someone will pick up and do something similar eventually...

Funny, because yesterday I was thinking about asking for a feature update in the feature thread about an option to randomly put together two layers from any program in the bank memories... simply to try out different combinations quickly... it would be cool for sound designers... a more in depth feature would be one that randomly takes different sections from different programs and merge them together... like Oscillators, LFOs, Filter, Amplifier, Effect etc... making a random program generator this way would probably make the sounds more useful since the parameter usually have sane settings when merged in groups... of course there will always be the need for touch-up and refinement, but it would give sound designers a fast way to come up with more useful programs... some of the latest programs I've done was done by layering from different programs, and I find that these sounds are some of the better ones I've done actually.

Razmo · « **Reply #149 on:** November 18, 2018, 10:45:00 AM »

http://razmo.ziphoid.com/GoldenDragon.mp3

This is a try into making a Koto like program... i call this one "Golden Dragon"... it's not finished, and still need some FX on layer B... otherwise it's 100% REV2 again.

I've been creating quite a few plucked sounds by now actually, but keep coming up with new plucked timbres from time to time, and they are very useful for fantasy ambient music.

Sorry for the haphazard live playing... it's just a demo

Razmo · « **Reply #150 on:** November 18, 2018, 01:00:56 PM »

Here's another one... i call it "Ice Harp": http://razmo.ziphoid.com/IceHarp.mp3

Again this is a combined program... the "ice glitter" taken from an earlier program and changed a bit, and the previous "Golden Dragon" program, also changed to sound different... this time there is a bit of Übermod reverb on the demo, otherwise all REV2.

Tarjeijazz · « **Reply #151 on:** November 18, 2018, 01:04:05 PM »

How much do you use FM in your patches?

Razmo · « **Reply #152 on:** November 18, 2018, 01:11:59 PM »

Quote from: Tarjeijazz on November 18, 2018, 01:04:05 PM

How much do you use FM in your patches?

I'd say... all the time

... the FM of the resonant filter is one of the reason the REV2 can do so many strange sounds.

Tarjeijazz · « **Reply #153 on:** November 18, 2018, 01:47:00 PM »

Could you elaborate on that? Cuz when i try to use FM, it just goes crazy really fast. I dont feel i can reliably controll it.....

Razmo · « **Reply #154 on:** November 18, 2018, 03:53:15 PM »

Quote from: Tarjeijazz on November 18, 2018, 01:47:00 PM

Could you elaborate on that? Cuz when i try to use FM, it just goes crazy really fast. I dont feel i can reliably controll it.....

First off you need to make sure that your REV2 is properly calibrated regarding the filters... turn on your REV2, and let it be on for half an hour before you do a calibration... this ensures that the filter can be played and is in tune. this is crucial!

When that has been done, make sure that oscillator 2 is OFF, and that the OscMix parameter is set to only play oscillator 2...

Now set the cutoff to value 24 (a single value increase will advance the filter a semitone, and value 24 is a C).

now set resonance to max to get the filter to self oscillate...

now set keyfollow on the filter to 64 (that correspond to the filter following the keyboard properly).

if you now increase the Audio Mod parameter you'll hear the FM start to happen on the self resonating filter.. the modulator is oscillator 1, so you need to tweak oscillator 1's parameters as well as the filter cutoff and Audio Mod.

The reason oscillator 2 had to be off, and OscMix set to only hear osc2 is that you only want to hear the filter, and none of the oscillators... you can of course mix in any of the oscillators if you would like that.

Also be aware, that the filter FM can be quite unstable at some settings, so you really need to experiment with the different parameters. Also, a lot of the tricks used to get more out of it is to assign envelope 3 to AudioMod for example, or even oscillator 1's pitch... experiment is key.

It will take some practice to learn how to use the FM feature well, so just keep trying and you'll get there.

Tarjeijazz · « **Reply #155 on:** November 18, 2018, 04:14:18 PM »

That is awesome! Thank you for the elaborate explanation.

So if my oscillators were set to C# frequency, then the filter cutoff would need to be at 25, and it would work the same way?

I havent checked out the posibilities of using the self oscillating filter as a oscillator. I find it hard to find good and stable uses for it. But as you describe the combination of key tracking and cutoff point so that it matches the oscillators then i think it might be easier for me to use it in meaningful and controlled ways.

In generall i find the continuously variable key tracking to be hard to use (probably because im not proficient with it), because it sorta takes away the cutoff knobs function.....does this make sense? I mean, that when i turn the key track all the way up, its like opening the filter, and then the cutoff knob doesnt affect the filter as much anymore. I know its not like that, but thats the ferling i get when using it. Like im not in controll:p

Razmo · « **Reply #156 on:** November 18, 2018, 05:25:37 PM »

Quote from: Tarjeijazz on November 18, 2018, 04:14:18 PM

That is awesome! Thank you for the elaborate explanation.

So if my oscillators were set to C# frequency, then the filter cutoff would need to be at 25, and it would work the same way?

I havent checked out the posibilities of using the self oscillating filter as a oscillator. I find it hard to find good and stable uses for it. But as you describe the combination of key tracking and cutoff point so that it matches the oscillators then i think it might be easier for me to use it in meaningful and controlled ways.

In generall i find the continuously variable key tracking to be hard to use (probably because im not proficient with it), because it sorta takes away the cutoff knobs function.....does this make sense? I mean, that when i turn the key track all the way up, its like opening the filter, and then the cutoff knob doesnt affect the filter as much anymore. I know its not like that, but thats the ferling i get when using it. Like im not in controll:p

Yep... a single increase in cutoff represent a semitone... thus 36 is one octave higher, and 48 yet another. This makes using the self oscillating filter rather simple... many are complaining about the "1 semitone resolution" of the cutoff parameter, but that is probably because they are not building presets using FM

...

About the self oscillating filter... it IS extremely stable actually (stable and in tune in more than an 8 octave range!)... so stable it can be used as a sine oscillator... the only thing you need to know is, that your REV2 must have warmed up for half an hour, then calibrated before it will be perfectly in tune... also remember, that when you then shut off your REV2 and come back to it later, YOU NEED TO LET IT WARM UP FOR HALF AN HOUR!!! that is crucial because the filters need to get "back in tune"... but i can asure you, that if you do what I said, you won't be having a problem with the self oscillating filter not being in tune... and please remember, that with very high Audio Mod values, you may run into some instability in the sound between the voices... that's just how it is with FM in the analog domain... it's hard to keep stable at very high values.

And about the keyfollow... yes... it may seem like the cutoff parameter do not have any effect when keytrack is increased... that is logical because the note values from the keyboard are actually added to the cutoff value... you have to think of the cutoff parameter as a "sine oscillator pitch control" when you use the filter in self oscillating mode... any modulation you do to the cutoff parameter via LFO, EG or Mod Matrix will be ADDED to the current value + the key note. Just keep experimenting with the cutoff parameter when the filter is in self oscillating mode and everything becomes much much clearer

... learn to use the keytrack parameter on your presets, it makes one hell of a difference to the tone because the filter open up the higher you play on the keys... this is an essential feature, otherwise your sound will start to get dull on the higher keys... this is ok for some sounds, but not for others... i use keytrack VERY OFTEN, but you usually have it set at either 0 or 64... rarely any in between and above.

Also remember that the filter will ONLY self oscillate when in 4pole mode... not 2pole.

Razmo · « **Reply #157 on:** November 18, 2018, 05:40:48 PM »

And another thing:

When using FM on the self oscillating filter which is in essence a sine wave, what waveform you choose to modulate it with on OSC1 will have a huge impact on the resulting sound... in normal oldschool Yamaha FM, you FM a sine carrier with a sine modulator... on the REV2, the carrier is the self oscillating filter sinewave, and the modulator is the oscillator 1 waveform... so if you want the closest FM to a two operator Yamaha FM synth, you should choose "Triangle" as the waveform for oscillator 1... that wave will give you the clearest and most "FM sounding" tones... Pulse, Saw/Tri and Sawtooth can also give good results, but they usually sound more harsh... also the Shape parameter can be used here to create other FM timbres.

The oscillator pitch control is also of huge importance as this is what will FM the filter... if you choose the same key here, as in the filter (a C on both for example), then the tone will usually be musically harmonic... if they differ you'll start to get very inharmonic timbres... this is how you create those bell'ish sounds... now start to modulate the pitch of an oscillator or cutoff and get crazy stuff... and now that you're at it... try to switch on Sync from oscillator 2 which is not doing anything anyway... that way you can make even more waveforms with oscillator 1, which then in turn can give even more FM timbres from modulating the filter.

Admitted... it can be confusing... and it does take time to master the FM on the REV2... you really need to know what you're doing, and be prepared to fiddle with very tiny adjustments to the parameters because even a single increase or decrease in a value can alter the sound dramatically, depending on the parameters in tandem... so get experimenting!

Razmo · « **Reply #158 on:** November 20, 2018, 07:56:55 AM »

This is a bit weird... a strange eerie sound that end in what I would call the sound of a supernova, the death of a star... so i called this program "Death of a Sun" ... don't ask me what went into making this sound, i cannot answer it, i just tweaked parameters uncontrollably until something useful came along... can probably be used as a sound FX in some Space Ambient... or somethin'

Please note... this sound will get LOUD!!!

http://razmo.ziphoid.com/DeathOfASun.mp3

Razmo · « **Reply #159 on:** November 20, 2018, 04:16:53 PM »

http://razmo.ziphoid.com/FrozenTime.mp3

Another new program... tried to make the longest fake reverb I possibly could with the REV2... this is the result: "Frosen Time"

You could always use an external quality reverb, i know... but it's fun to see how much I can squeeze out of the REV2 on it's own. There is a few "clicks" in the demo because of the FX engine clipping... need to fix that...