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The REV2 is a deep and VERY capable synth

Re: The REV2 is a deep and VERY capable synth
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2018, 07:13:48 AM »
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/BankSounds.mp3

The 44 minutes long demo above holds all the 44 presets I've been doing over the last two months.
I'm posting it here to showcase that the REV2 is not just a simple "Brass synth", which I have read on occation on some fecebook synthesizer groups... I find it hard to find good demos of synths that showcase Ambient/Fantasy/Pads presets, so I thought I'd post this in response to that observation.

It's just live playing (so don't expect anything serious, it's only meant to showcase the sounds)... everything is played thru a Valhalla - Übermod plugin for that extra Ambient feeling, but other than that, just REV2. Everyone uses external FX anyway with most synths.

These are great sounds, so many good ones. Great job!

My favourites are:

6.26 Bell-ish sounds.

10.06 that nasty bass is amazing and I’d totally buy the pack just for that if I owned a Rev 2.

16.35 The rain/water in cave sounds

27.02 Eerie pad

35.58 bass arp

36.18 (is this the same as above but modulated or is it a distinct patch?)

40.19 convincing Irish whistle

By the way, was it you who did the 4 elements sounds. I was trying to listen to the fire one again to show my daughter and it wouldn’t load. If it was yours, could you please reupload a working link. Thanks.

The sound at 36.18 is not a modified version... in fact i start all programs from scratch in 99% of the time.

and yes... it was I who did that fire-sound as well... but I'm not fully satisfied with it yet, so I am to go back and re-edit it at some time... I'll upload all the demo's again so that they'll work again...

EDIT: old links to demo's in my blog should be up again now...

Where is your blog?

Re: The REV2 is a deep and VERY capable synth
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2018, 09:53:46 AM »
beautiful sounds there!

Razmo

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Re: The REV2 is a deep and VERY capable synth
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2018, 09:58:48 AM »
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/BankSounds.mp3

The 44 minutes long demo above holds all the 44 presets I've been doing over the last two months.
I'm posting it here to showcase that the REV2 is not just a simple "Brass synth", which I have read on occation on some fecebook synthesizer groups... I find it hard to find good demos of synths that showcase Ambient/Fantasy/Pads presets, so I thought I'd post this in response to that observation.

It's just live playing (so don't expect anything serious, it's only meant to showcase the sounds)... everything is played thru a Valhalla - Übermod plugin for that extra Ambient feeling, but other than that, just REV2. Everyone uses external FX anyway with most synths.

These are great sounds, so many good ones. Great job!

My favourites are:

6.26 Bell-ish sounds.

10.06 that nasty bass is amazing and I’d totally buy the pack just for that if I owned a Rev 2.

16.35 The rain/water in cave sounds

27.02 Eerie pad

35.58 bass arp

36.18 (is this the same as above but modulated or is it a distinct patch?)

40.19 convincing Irish whistle

By the way, was it you who did the 4 elements sounds. I was trying to listen to the fire one again to show my daughter and it wouldn’t load. If it was yours, could you please reupload a working link. Thanks.

The sound at 36.18 is not a modified version... in fact i start all programs from scratch in 99% of the time.

and yes... it was I who did that fire-sound as well... but I'm not fully satisfied with it yet, so I am to go back and re-edit it at some time... I'll upload all the demo's again so that they'll work again...

EDIT: old links to demo's in my blog should be up again now...

Where is your blog?

It's located here: https://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,58.0.html
If you need me, follow the shadows...

Re: The REV2 is a deep and VERY capable synth
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2018, 05:26:30 PM »
Thanks for the compliments... :)

Yes... I almost use up all ModMatrix slots on most programs... modulation is the key to complex and evolving sounds especially when you are dealing with an analog synth that only has the most basic waveforms.
This is why I roll my eyes every time someone compares the Rev2 to the OB-6 or P6 and says "You don't need all of the modulation on the OB-6 or P6 to make it sound good." It's like saying you don't need a filter or square waves; I mean, you don't--unless you want to make patches with filters and square waves!

One would probably think that with the new Shape parameter, that more sounds are possible from the oscillators, but I rarely use them to be honest, as i find that they all sound more or less like PWM... it's not like if you chose from a wavetable.

The shape control might be somewhat limited but can be really interesting for nuanced patches--especially atmospheric ones like you've made. For example route Noise to Shape at 20-30 for some lovely buzzy shapes, Route a gated seq to Shape and set the mode to Key Step so each new key hit is a slightly different shape. Route Audio Out to Shape to let the sound influence itself! Combine various modulations and get shapes like the one attached! But I also find the the control useful for dialing in the shape just so--finding a slightly more hollow triangle or what seems like phase reversing the saw.


Re: The REV2 is a deep and VERY capable synth
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2018, 07:44:41 PM »
A lot of people misunderstand or under utilize some of the Rev 2's functions.  The AudioMod for the filter being one of the more important ones when trying to break out of the ordinary-- and it's not just for making bells or noisy sounds, either.

Re: The REV2 is a deep and VERY capable synth
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2018, 11:36:18 PM »
This is a great demo Razmo. You pulled some stuff out of there I've yet to hear in any demo or patch bank. Hard to believe this thing in front of me is capable of making some of those sounds. Well done!

It definitely highlights how I'm totally one of in those misunderstanding/under-utilizing this thing. But I'm trying to dig in. It's still a pretty new addition and I'm used to simpler synths.

The only weak side I have found on Rev2 is the bass sounds (as on many poly synthesizers) but that is not a problem anymore after purchasing a Toraiz AS-1. They really complement each other and are both really great instruments.

Absolutely. I did the same after finally deciding on a REV2 over a P6. Seemed like a better solution - all the possibilities of a REV2 and it's 61 note keyboard, while still retaining a piece of what makes the P6 great.

I struggled at first with the multimode in-only limitation. It would be great if you could split the midi channel going out like you can coming in. I guess that's more of a "there's 2 synth engines not 2 keyboard zones" thing, but I wonder if it couldn't be implemented in a firmware update. Seems like DSI isn't really interested in that though, from what I've gathered in some other threads.

For now, I just pop the AS-1 into low note priority and let it fill in the bass register. With the right combo of patches (and a steady hand on a low note) it'll sound fantastic.

Razmo

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Re: The REV2 is a deep and VERY capable synth
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2018, 12:51:35 AM »
Thanks for the compliments... :)

Yes... I almost use up all ModMatrix slots on most programs... modulation is the key to complex and evolving sounds especially when you are dealing with an analog synth that only has the most basic waveforms.
This is why I roll my eyes every time someone compares the Rev2 to the OB-6 or P6 and says "You don't need all of the modulation on the OB-6 or P6 to make it sound good." It's like saying you don't need a filter or square waves; I mean, you don't--unless you want to make patches with filters and square waves!

One would probably think that with the new Shape parameter, that more sounds are possible from the oscillators, but I rarely use them to be honest, as i find that they all sound more or less like PWM... it's not like if you chose from a wavetable.

The shape control might be somewhat limited but can be really interesting for nuanced patches--especially atmospheric ones like you've made. For example route Noise to Shape at 20-30 for some lovely buzzy shapes, Route a gated seq to Shape and set the mode to Key Step so each new key hit is a slightly different shape. Route Audio Out to Shape to let the sound influence itself! Combine various modulations and get shapes like the one attached! But I also find the the control useful for dialing in the shape just so--finding a slightly more hollow triangle or what seems like phase reversing the saw.

Utilizing the ModMatrix to do modulation takes a bit more understanding of how to do the modulations, than just the usual subtractive stuff that everyone knows how to use... i think that is why many say that the P6 or OB6 is as capable, because if you only use the normal subtractive stuff, and do not dig into the ModMatrix, then you will certainly end up with just a "16 voice P6 like synth"... Understanding the ModMatrix and how it works is not rocket science though... everyone understand the source, amount and destination scheme, but the secrets lies in understand what to modulate and how... this is something you have to learn like any other skill... it's sound design skills that is needed to get more out of the REV2, and other deep synths like the Prophet 12 and X.

I'm certain that I'll find a use for the shape parameter... I've just not really digged into that yet... I'm far from exploiting all the aspects of the REV2... far from it actually... i tend to take one step at a time... another thing I've not been using a lot yet, which will certainly open up a lot af cool modulations is the gated sequencer... it's used only on two of the 44 programs. But I'm sure the shape parameter will be useful in the future, especially when I start using it in combination with frequency modulation of the filter (AudioMod) and the like, and of course the "Audio Out" Modulation destination which I still have to explore a bit to find it's uses.

But all in all... there are no analog polysynths out there yet, that boast the same kind of deep modulation and flexibility as the REV2... there are some hybrid contestants like the Prophet X, Prophet 12, Poly Evolver and PEAK... I think the only other that is close must be the Behringer DeepMind12, but this has no dual layers... instead it has a much better FX section than the REV2.
If you need me, follow the shadows...

Razmo

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Re: The REV2 is a deep and VERY capable synth
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2018, 12:55:36 AM »
A lot of people misunderstand or under utilize some of the Rev 2's functions.  The AudioMod for the filter being one of the more important ones when trying to break out of the ordinary-- and it's not just for making bells or noisy sounds, either.

I agree... the AudioMod is one that I have been using A LOT in those programs... without it the REV2 would not have been able to do so many different sounds as it's capable of... more than bell sounds yes, but without it, bell sounds would have been out of the question really... this is also why I find it a shame that DSI did not include the filter feedback from the Mopho and Tetra into the REV2... that would have allowed for a lot more analog distorted timbres on a per voice basis. But I guess this is Dave's philosophy... every synth has to have something that makes it unique, so that people want them all ...
If you need me, follow the shadows...

Re: The REV2 is a deep and VERY capable synth
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2018, 01:00:05 AM »
"Understanding the ModMatrix and how it works is not rocket science though... everyone understand the source, amount and destination scheme, but the secrets lies in understand what to modulate and how... this is something you have to learn like any other skill... it's sound design skills that is needed to get more out of the REV2, and other deep synths like the Prophet 12"

Razmo have you got any tips for literature or other stuff where I can learn the skills or is it learning by doing? I am pretty new to Synthesis so it would be great to get some tips from experienced people like you.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2018, 01:02:21 AM by gernotreininger »
IMac Mid 2013, Cubase 9Pro, Prophet Rev 2 8voice

Razmo

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Re: The REV2 is a deep and VERY capable synth
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2018, 01:02:10 AM »
This is a great demo Razmo. You pulled some stuff out of there I've yet to hear in any demo or patch bank. Hard to believe this thing in front of me is capable of making some of those sounds. Well done!

It definitely highlights how I'm totally one of in those misunderstanding/under-utilizing this thing. But I'm trying to dig in. It's still a pretty new addition and I'm used to simpler synths.

The only weak side I have found on Rev2 is the bass sounds (as on many poly synthesizers) but that is not a problem anymore after purchasing a Toraiz AS-1. They really complement each other and are both really great instruments.

Absolutely. I did the same after finally deciding on a REV2 over a P6. Seemed like a better solution - all the possibilities of a REV2 and it's 61 note keyboard, while still retaining a piece of what makes the P6 great.

I struggled at first with the multimode in-only limitation. It would be great if you could split the midi channel going out like you can coming in. I guess that's more of a "there's 2 synth engines not 2 keyboard zones" thing, but I wonder if it couldn't be implemented in a firmware update. Seems like DSI isn't really interested in that though, from what I've gathered in some other threads.

For now, I just pop the AS-1 into low note priority and let it fill in the bass register. With the right combo of patches (and a steady hand on a low note) it'll sound fantastic.

Regarding bass sounds and the REV2 (or Curtis chip in general), then most of the sounds that end up sounding fat and deep are those where you use unison... unfortunately using unison also makes the sound smeared... this can be cool if that's what you're after, but if you want a single oscillator bass sound, that is strong and punchy in the lowend, then the REV2 simply won't do really... I managed to make a few that comes close, but it's just not the same as sitting in front of a Sub37 for example... you need an analog synth with much stronger basic oscillator sounds, and a filter that can seriously drive up that low-end... also, the REV2 does not have any means of driving the input to the filter into distortion... that's another reason...

If bass sounds is critical to anyones music, I'd certainly find another analog monosynth to complement the REV2... like you are doing.
If you need me, follow the shadows...

Razmo

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Re: The REV2 is a deep and VERY capable synth
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2018, 01:24:28 AM »
"Understanding the ModMatrix and how it works is not rocket science though... everyone understand the source, amount and destination scheme, but the secrets lies in understand what to modulate and how... this is something you have to learn like any other skill... it's sound design skills that is needed to get more out of the REV2, and other deep synths like the Prophet 12"

Razmo have you got any tips for literature or other stuff where I can learn the skills or is it learning by doing? I am pretty new to Synthesis so it would be great to get some tips from experienced people like you.

To be honest, i learned everything I know by myself over the course of the last 25+ years... so I'd say that a large part of it is by simply doing and having the ambition to expereiment and take things one step at a time... I've also been doing electronics myself in the past, and coding stuff like envelopes, LFO's and the like for synths... knowing how things work internally is also a big plus which people not having done these things probably do not realize...

Over the years I've learned some tricks of course, that I use a lot, but in many cases it's about being able to "see the sound in your head"... it's actually a creative process... using your imagination to get as much modulation into the sound as possible... in some cases things end in completely other directions than intended, and you stumble upon a cool sound by accident... it's almost like "creating a painting" to me... I just "throw colors at the canvas" and see what i come up with over time... then knowing how to take those raw sounds and molding them into something useable is where knowing how the synth works is crucial...

But a good start is to take any part of the synth, and focus on that part... figure out how it works, and how you can use that part...

Many of my sounds usualy start out by me looking at a certain part of the synth from a technical perspective... like "Hey, what does it sound like, if I let the pitch of an oscillator be modulated by LFO1, which is modulated by LFO2, which is modulated by LFO3 which is modulated by LFO4 which is again modulated by LFO1 ?" ... I simply take a small part of the engine, and experiment with it... when I find something while experimenting that sounds cool, then it's just about applying maybe some filter modulation and assign some controllers to parameters until i get some interresting modulations going... and when I've experimented with such a program, then I have learned more about how the LFO's can be used in strange ways, intermodulating eachother etc... some stuff I can use on other programs, other things is only used that once... it varies..

I actually do not have many obscure tricks that I use a lot to be honest... a few have proven useful and is used often though:

1. Envelope feedback... routing an envelope's output to it's own Decay/Attack/Release parameter is a known trick on many synths... this lets you shape the envelope decay curve to become more exponential or logarithmic... a really cool trick for making basses more snappy, or give a bassdrum more punch... it's also good on bell sounds that need punch...

2. Fake filter... Set one oscillator to a Triangle, and the other to a Sawtooth... route an envelope to the oscillator MIX parameter... this way you can simulate a filter BEFORE the filter (like having two filters after each other)... the sound starts out with the bright Sawtooth waveform, but the envelope will crossfade to the Triangle in the end... the Triangle has the least harmonics, thus the end result sound much like a filter... if you adjust the real filter on top this actually give some rather cool bass sounds.

I'll post other tricks in here, when I recall them... but as i said earlier; most of my sounds come from experimentation with a certain part of the engine... that is also why most of my programs are made from scratch, and NOT based on other programs.
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Re: The REV2 is a deep and VERY capable synth
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2018, 02:04:37 AM »
[...] any tips for literature or other stuff where I can learn the skills or is it learning by doing?

Good old "Synth Secrets" series from Sound On Sound:
https://www.soundonsound.com/search/articles/%22Synth%20Secrets%22
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Razmo

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Re: The REV2 is a deep and VERY capable synth
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2018, 02:43:27 AM »
[...] any tips for literature or other stuff where I can learn the skills or is it learning by doing?

Good old "Synth Secrets" series from Sound On Sound:
https://www.soundonsound.com/search/articles/%22Synth%20Secrets%22

Yes, they are quite good actually... on a theoretical level at least... the examples are usually done with the Nord Modular in mind, which is in most cases impossible to transfer to hardwired synths... but it gives you some valuable insight into synthesis nonetheless :)
If you need me, follow the shadows...

Re: The REV2 is a deep and VERY capable synth
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2018, 02:55:19 AM »
Thank you guys. I'll have a look!
IMac Mid 2013, Cubase 9Pro, Prophet Rev 2 8voice

Re: The REV2 is a deep and VERY capable synth
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2018, 04:18:25 PM »
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/BankSounds.mp3

The 44 minutes long demo above holds all the 44 presets I've been doing over the last two months.
I'm posting it here to showcase that the REV2 is not just a simple "Brass synth", which I have read on occation on some fecebook synthesizer groups... I find it hard to find good demos of synths that showcase Ambient/Fantasy/Pads presets, so I thought I'd post this in response to that observation.

It's just live playing (so don't expect anything serious, it's only meant to showcase the sounds)... everything is played thru a Valhalla - Übermod plugin for that extra Ambient feeling, but other than that, just REV2. Everyone uses external FX anyway with most synths.

These are great sounds, so many good ones. Great job!

My favourites are:

6.26 Bell-ish sounds.

10.06 that nasty bass is amazing and I’d totally buy the pack just for that if I owned a Rev 2.

16.35 The rain/water in cave sounds

27.02 Eerie pad

35.58 bass arp

36.18 (is this the same as above but modulated or is it a distinct patch?)

40.19 convincing Irish whistle

By the way, was it you who did the 4 elements sounds. I was trying to listen to the fire one again to show my daughter and it wouldn’t load. If it was yours, could you please reupload a working link. Thanks.

The sound at 36.18 is not a modified version... in fact i start all programs from scratch in 99% of the time.

and yes... it was I who did that fire-sound as well... but I'm not fully satisfied with it yet, so I am to go back and re-edit it at some time... I'll upload all the demo's again so that they'll work again...

EDIT: old links to demo's in my blog should be up again now...

Where is your blog?

It's located here: https://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,58.0.html

Thanks, Razmo. I managed to find the exact post using a google search with the right keywords.

Razmo

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Re: The REV2 is a deep and VERY capable synth
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2018, 09:05:22 AM »
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/TheStorm.mp3

Made a short demo of several of my presets including a new bass patch... it has not been EQ'ed or anything... it's just some tracks recorded directly from the REV2... no external FX, just the REV2.
If you need me, follow the shadows...

Re: The REV2 is a deep and VERY capable synth
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2018, 03:14:22 PM »
Oh, gorgeous sounds in the first demo!

Re: The REV2 is a deep and VERY capable synth
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2018, 12:35:53 PM »
I'm deeply impressed, thanks a lot for sharing your work and your tips!  :)
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chexg

Re: The REV2 is a deep and VERY capable synth
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2018, 10:02:18 PM »
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/BankSounds.mp3

The 44 minutes long demo above holds all the 44 presets I've been doing over the last two months.
I'm posting it here to showcase that the REV2 is not just a simple "Brass synth", which I have read on occation on some fecebook synthesizer groups... I find it hard to find good demos of synths that showcase Ambient/Fantasy/Pads presets, so I thought I'd post this in response to that observation.

It's just live playing (so don't expect anything serious, it's only meant to showcase the sounds)... everything is played thru a Valhalla - Übermod plugin for that extra Ambient feeling, but other than that, just REV2. Everyone uses external FX anyway with most synths.
Very inspiring demo. Thanks, Razmo! I would definitely be interested if you offer your soundbank for purchase.

Re: The REV2 is a deep and VERY capable synth
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2018, 10:38:53 PM »
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/TheStorm.mp3

Made a short demo of several of my presets including a new bass patch... it has not been EQ'ed or anything... it's just some tracks recorded directly from the REV2... no external FX, just the REV2.
Great patches and tune. Thank you!
IMac Mid 2013, Cubase 9Pro, Prophet Rev 2 8voice