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Prophet X Preview video on Sonicstate

Re: Prophet X Preview video on Sonicstate
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2018, 05:02:05 AM »
The low-precision approach to selecting loop points is almost certainly just how it works from the Prophet X front panel.  Precise loop points will be specified as part of the keymap when designed using external software, or I will be downright shocked.

Re: Prophet X Preview video on Sonicstate
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2018, 10:28:48 AM »
Just based on how the synth is designed and how the existing samples are configured I suspect you won’t be setting loop points in the software at all and that the loop function may be only created modified on the PX front panel.
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Re: Prophet X Preview video on Sonicstate
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2018, 12:24:16 PM »
Just based on how the synth is designed and how the existing samples are configured I suspect you won’t be setting loop points in the software at all and that the loop function may be only created modified on the PX front panel.

An early peek at the file format on disk showed loop points as part of the keymap, so I’m all but certain that’s not the case.  Another hint is that of you start with an init patch and scroll through sample keymaps you’ll see the loop light turn on and off as you find samples with set loop points.  Go to the Inst Edit page and you’ll see “Factory Setting” displayed instead of the usual loop UI until you make a change.  To return to the factory loop points you go back to the Inst Loop page and turn off “Edit Sample.”

Razmo

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Re: Prophet X Preview video on Sonicstate
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2018, 02:50:14 PM »
If they did not include the original loop points, then how on earth would they be able to play a sustained sample? ... now I'm not familiar with the X as I do not have one yet, but if the loop points was only editable via the crude parameters of the X, then you would have a REALLY hard time setting the points for a seamless loop... even if it may search for the nearest zero-crossing... a perfect zero crossing is not a guarantee of a seamless loop at all... I've been doing looping of samples for over 25 years down to single sample levels, so i know this for a fact.

If the X include some sort of crossfading, that would not cut it anyway... a crossfade requires as many samples prior to the loop start, that will be mixed in just before the loop end to work, and this rarely makes a seamless loop because you are in essence mixing two waveforms in the crossover area, which would be the same as mixing two oscillators, if the sample was of a single oscillator waveform... it creates all kinds of dips in the volume, and the crossfading area is almost always hearable... it's just not good enough for my usage when it comes to seamless looping.

If the original loop points is not used when a sample instrument is selected, then the only way i see to create seamless loops would be to create the loop in the sample editor by replicating the waveform several times, and making the sample so darn long that the envelopes would have died out (the Amp Envelope) long before the end of the sample has been reached, and that would require some pretty long samples, especially because the higher pitches will play faster thru the sample (the famous chipmunk effect of samplers).

I would find it really strange if original loops was not supported because this IS a sound designers sampling synthesizer afteral... it is meant to be taking chunks of audio material and mess around with it in creative ways, not just being a simple workstation playback device, and one of the most interesting aspects of this synth (to me) is that I want to be able to playback any looped snippet of audio that is perfectly looped, and use it as an oscillator building block... and in such a loop, there CANNOT be clicks, pops or ugly cross fades in my opinion... besides I really do not see why it should not be possible to support the original loop points... it should be one of the most simple playback methods... it's not like I'm requireing time stretching or formant shifting or anything, just plain old sample loop points like samplers has been able to since they even started to appear on the market in the 80's!

...and I can easily predict, that if this is not possible when the user sample support is released, that DSI will get pretty many complaints about this... this is something that most people would find mandatory functionality.

The crude settings of the parameters in the engine is fine... in fact i like that idea as I stated earlier for many reasons, and i can certainly see that it's cool that loop points set when you want to get down to granular stuff is automatically fixing the pitch to scale is absolutely cool... I'm not trying to say that this is stupid... I'm just saying, that there should be an option in the looping parameters, to allow you to use either the engine settings, or the original loop points... that way everyone will be happy... including me :D
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Re: Prophet X Preview video on Sonicstate
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2018, 03:36:41 PM »
I'm just saying, that there should be an option in the looping parameters, to allow you to use either the engine settings, or the original loop points... that way everyone will be happy... including me

See my post immediately above yours.  There is such an option, it’s called “sample edit.”  When turned on the loop points can be selected with the coarse 0-999 range, when turned off it reverts back to the precise loop points created by the author of the sample.  Or am I missing something in what you’re hoping for?  (Aside from the user sample preparation software, of course, which we’re all waiting patiently for.)

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Re: Prophet X Preview video on Sonicstate
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2018, 01:27:51 AM »
I'm just saying, that there should be an option in the looping parameters, to allow you to use either the engine settings, or the original loop points... that way everyone will be happy... including me

See my post immediately above yours.  There is such an option, it’s called “sample edit.”  When turned on the loop points can be selected with the coarse 0-999 range, when turned off it reverts back to the precise loop points created by the author of the sample.  Or am I missing something in what you’re hoping for?  (Aside from the user sample preparation software, of course, which we’re all waiting patiently for.)

If what you say is true, then everything is fine... But only if the loop points is from the original .wav files... We do not have the X software yet, so no one knows if the loop points are tampered with inside the X software... But I guess it's probably the original loop points... But if not:

A resolution of 0-999 is not good enough... Samples are way bigger than 1000 samples... An increment of 1 would jump in the thousands (or even more) of samples and more... What I want is for the original loop points in the .wav file to be useable, as these can be set to any one sample in the file... It's the only way to retain the exact same loop that you made in your sample editing software on your computer... It is not at all fun, to sit with your editing software meticulously setting up the perfect loop, only to find out that the X has changed these upon loading them up on the X...

Please note, that I do not know if the X will use the original loop points, so there might not even be a problem... I'm just saying that IF not, then it would really be a shame...

Anyway, the sample instruments must have loops set up in the software for the X... Otherwise you would have to manually set up any loop you want whenever you select a sample instrument which would be very tedious... The question is rather, if these loops are set in the X software and have the crude resolution of 0-999, or if the software automatically use the stored loop points in the wave files it loads...

Now that I think about it, even if it only use the crude 0-999 settings, it should still be able to loop an entire sample from start to end if the loop start is 0 and the end is 999... If this is the case, it helps somewhat... Then the only problem would be the loop start if it's not 0... I'd be able to live with that as the samples I'd be making that should loop are usually looped from start to end.... But what about a looped piano for example? That would require the loop start be after the transient part, looping only the sustained part... A 0-999 loop start would certainly make the loop click...
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 01:31:12 AM by Razmo »
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Re: Prophet X Preview video on Sonicstate
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2018, 10:38:16 AM »
I'm just saying, that there should be an option in the looping parameters, to allow you to use either the engine settings, or the original loop points... that way everyone will be happy... including me

See my post immediately above yours.  There is such an option, it’s called “sample edit.”  When turned on the loop points can be selected with the coarse 0-999 range, when turned off it reverts back to the precise loop points created by the author of the sample.  Or am I missing something in what you’re hoping for?  (Aside from the user sample preparation software, of course, which we’re all waiting patiently for.)

This is correct--if Sample Edit is not engaged, the user-defined loop points are utilized. In the factory instruments, this means the loop points that 8DIO have defined. Loop points are defined in the forthcoming application, which has resolution down to the sample.
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Re: Prophet X Preview video on Sonicstate
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2018, 02:45:45 PM »
I'm just saying, that there should be an option in the looping parameters, to allow you to use either the engine settings, or the original loop points... that way everyone will be happy... including me

See my post immediately above yours.  There is such an option, it’s called “sample edit.”  When turned on the loop points can be selected with the coarse 0-999 range, when turned off it reverts back to the precise loop points created by the author of the sample.  Or am I missing something in what you’re hoping for?  (Aside from the user sample preparation software, of course, which we’re all waiting patiently for.)

This is correct--if Sample Edit is not engaged, the user-defined loop points are utilized. In the factory instruments, this means the loop points that 8DIO have defined. Loop points are defined in the forthcoming application, which has resolution down to the sample.

The software will import the sample loop points from the .wav files you load with the software right!? ... we do not have to set up the loop once more in the software eh!?
If you need me, follow the shadows...

Re: Prophet X Preview video on Sonicstate
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2018, 09:57:17 AM »
I'm just saying, that there should be an option in the looping parameters, to allow you to use either the engine settings, or the original loop points... that way everyone will be happy... including me

See my post immediately above yours.  There is such an option, it’s called “sample edit.”  When turned on the loop points can be selected with the coarse 0-999 range, when turned off it reverts back to the precise loop points created by the author of the sample.  Or am I missing something in what you’re hoping for?  (Aside from the user sample preparation software, of course, which we’re all waiting patiently for.)

This is correct--if Sample Edit is not engaged, the user-defined loop points are utilized. In the factory instruments, this means the loop points that 8DIO have defined. Loop points are defined in the forthcoming application, which has resolution down to the sample.

This is really good news. Looking forward to working with this software.
Quantum | Montage 7 | Moog One | 14u x 104hp Eurorack | H9000 | SoundCraft GB4 24 Mixer | MixPre 10T