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Demo-Weary

chysn

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Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2018, 10:04:35 AM »
Well, I'll tell you what I'm weary of. Drumkits. If I hear kick-snare-hat in something that's not rock and roll or jazz, I'm out.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 10:12:39 AM by chysn »
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2018, 10:40:20 AM »
 There much more room for distraction from new gizmos in synth world than would be found in the woodwind world for example, and so the videos are going to focus more that way.  Unlike Sacred Synthesis, I haven't reached viewing exhaustion just yet, although those seemingly obligatory filter blasts and squeals found in so many these demos are pushing me to the brink :-\
 
Not limited to synths,  but one of my video peeves is how some of the truly good players (and even some well-known pros) when they are demoing an instrument seem to gravitate to playing as fast and complex and they can possibly muster.  Rarely is this conducive to demonstrating an instruments sound.  It's like basing a test drive of a new car purchase only on a peddle-to-the-metal trip down the drag strip.
DSI Equipment: Poly Evolver Keyboard, Evolver desktop, Prophet 8,  Pro-2, OB6, P-12
 

https://Soundcloud.com/wavescape-1

Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2018, 10:49:28 AM »
Well, I'll tell you what I'm weary of. Drumkits. If I hear kick-snare-hat in something that's not rock and roll or jazz, I'm out.

Holy Cow, you said it Chysn.  Some many songs tainted with drum machines where it makes no sense to have it.  Hey, and that's coming from a drummer ;)
DSI Equipment: Poly Evolver Keyboard, Evolver desktop, Prophet 8,  Pro-2, OB6, P-12
 

https://Soundcloud.com/wavescape-1

Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2018, 11:23:29 AM »
I think a large part of this issue is related to the GAS problem.  All those neat looking generally affordable gadgets with delicious blinking lights quickly make a studio look sophisticated and professional.  Folks buy heaps of them, until the music they produce is the result of trying to incorporate some of them, or as many of them as possible, into each song.  But the GAS is related to the instruments also, in that folks want to buy one new or different instrument after another.  The result is that they quickly grow bored with the instruments they presently own and fail to deeply explore and push any one instrument to its capacity. 

By contrast, imagine the pianist who has only one sound, and must learn how to make the most of that sound for a whole life time, drawing out from it all the subtle nuances and variations possible.  I must admit, that simple and direct approach, that resourcefulness, fills me with admiration.

For all the years I was a church organist, I never once thought of buying organ-related objects.  When I studied harpsichord, I never thought of adding harpsichord-related gadgets to my music room.  It was 100% about the instrument and what my mind, hands, and feet could do with it.  And that's exactly how I approach the synthesizer. 
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 12:02:12 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

chysn

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Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2018, 05:23:50 PM »
I think a large part of this issue is related to the GAS problem.

It's also possible that people are making music in ways that satisfy their need for expression. Lacking harmony or form or melody isn't a downfall of anybody's music; it just means that you won't like it, and they probably don't even know you. My view is that harmony is failed experiment and my opinion of melody isn't much more charitable. But when I encounter these things in music, I don't necessarily find them cloying. The most important thing, to me, is balance: like a top spinning and overcoming little local instabilities, or a sumo wrestler staying on his feet against another one. We all have our own things we listen for, but nobody owes these things to us. It's best to not attribute their absence to some personal or systemic failure. Start with the assumption that people are doing what they enjoy.

Quote
By contrast, imagine the pianist who has only one sound, and must learn how to make the most of that sound for a whole life time, drawing out from it all the subtle nuances and variations possible.  I must admit, that simple and direct approach, that resourcefulness, fills me with admiration.

I've never been unsatisfied with a piano. There's no synthesizer that can fill a room like that. I hope I never need to choose between my piano and my modular.
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

megamarkd

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Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2018, 06:51:57 PM »
Taste=Subjective.  And that's a lot of the review vids.

I like Markus Fuller's videos but he's only got so many and they aren't demo's as such, though he does tend to play nicely at the end of them.

Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2018, 08:12:16 PM »
I think a large part of this issue is related to the GAS problem.

It's also possible that people are making music in ways that satisfy their need for expression.

I'm not denying that.  But I think one of the effects of GAS is the production of GAS music.  That seems only natural, doesn't it?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 09:28:44 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Shaw

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Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2018, 09:26:40 PM »
I think one of the effects of GAS is the production of GAS music.
Well Said!
Prophet X  |  Prophet 12  |  OB-6
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rockīn roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2018, 09:40:21 PM »
I would say if anything the performances online require a little more...I dunno...consistency and context. The videos themselves are either static while the music plays or they go on far too long without any context. Perhaps instead of doing video after video of experimenting with their gear or demoing patches (Which are both fine) try to put those performances in the context of a song or album. It's sort of like drone music. I can go see a Sunn O))) show or listen to a full album no problem but when it's just a single track I lose interest. Perhaps it's less to do with the music and performance itself and more to do with the lack of context. There's almost no song titles, no video editing to go along with the music, it's just "Moog Grandmother Patch Demo" and a 5 minute video of someone turning various dials and sliders on their synth or stepping through patch after patch so quickly nothing has time to digest. I don't care if the video is 5 minutes of pads and strings or bleeps and bloops, I'd just like a little more effort put into other elements to give it context.  There is a channel called "Sounds & Things" and a lot of it is just a Korg MS20 run through various reverbs, delays, phasers etc but the performer gives each performance a song title and splices in footage of old science fiction films. I like that a lot.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Oberheim SEM-Pro, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

megamarkd

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Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2018, 10:26:59 PM »
....but the performer gives each performance a song title and splices in footage of old science fiction films. I like that a lot.

I agree with this, give your work a title at least, it's a sign that you created something, not just went through a process of open/plug in/test/demo.

My music is crap and lately I've only really done simple examples of the sounds I am making, but I give them names and try to find interesting video (to distract from crap composing, heheh). I used to write stories about the sounds years ago when tape was king.

chysn

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Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2018, 05:44:02 AM »
I'm not denying that.  But I think one of the effects of GAS is the production of GAS music.  That seems only natural, doesn't it?

GAS music?
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2018, 07:07:52 AM »
I'm not denying that.  But I think one of the effects of GAS is the production of GAS music.  That seems only natural, doesn't it?

GAS music?

I think he just means music that is using all the gear someone has at once for the sake of it rather than for the sake of composition. Iím not sure I buy that though...look at the dude from Synthmania. The guy has a ton of synths and music gear and yet he approaches each of his videos differently with totally different styles and different gear.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Oberheim SEM-Pro, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2018, 11:00:03 AM »
Yes, that's what I mean. 
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2018, 11:05:18 AM »
....but the performer gives each performance a song title and splices in footage of old science fiction films. I like that a lot.

I agree with this, give your work a title at least, it's a sign that you created something, not just went through a process of open/plug in/test/demo.

My music is crap and lately I've only really done simple examples of the sounds I am making, but I give them names and try to find interesting video (to distract from crap composing, heheh). I used to write stories about the sounds years ago when tape was king.

I'm satisfied with putting all the effort into the music, and then posting a beautiful picture.  I don't think anybody goes to my channel for a media thrill.  It's music or nothing, and that's just the way I want it to be.  It they want pictures or videos of tons of equipment, then they have a thousand or more other videos from which to choose.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 11:08:45 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

dsetto

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Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2018, 05:56:56 AM »
Would you agree this thread is discussing two separate notions: Music and YouTube Synthesizer Demos? They are related, and not.

And like all, the range is wide. I am referring to reasons for existence (of the music) to its results. And the maker's experience. And the listener's experience of it.

As a listener, I have become less interested. ... I continue to tell myself to go seek.

dsetto

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Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2018, 06:14:43 AM »
- Groove. To me it's important.
- Thoughtfulness - conscious, or better, sub-conscious. Important.

These are deeply subjective.

On a deeper, slow level: groove can be loosely applied to form. Form "groove" requires an attentiveness that is the opposite of what feels like the wideheld norm today. (Maybe that was always the case, but today there is the i-soapbox.)

---
Perhaps some classic Minimalism (Reich, Glass) may bridge gap between what you crave and what exists in synth demos. Not that you are trying to bridge a gap, nor that they are the same.

The advice I would give myself: It is resonance of spirit I seek. Once motivated, seek.

Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2018, 03:40:11 PM »
Would you agree this thread is discussing two separate notions: Music and YouTube Synthesizer Demos? They are related, and not.

Yes, the original topic has broken up into two different issues.  I only intended the YouTube theme.  The other "traditional music" issue has already been discussed elsewhere.  It's a touchy topic.  I think a synthesizer forum is the wrong place for such a discussion, which is why I went into this unwillingly.  It better belongs on a blog as a discussion between mutual enthusiasts striving for a common goal.  It's pointless to go into it without a number of people who share the same views and are striving for the same goal.  Otherwise, it turns into yet another debate with those who don't even care for the idea.  But there are just so few of us. 

I wish more musicians like myself would take the synthesizer seriously.  What would that look like from a video perspective (since we started out talking about YouTube)?  To describe a setting: a musician sitting at a full-sized polyphonic synthesizer under a desk lamp in front of a music stand playing powerful and expressive solo synthesizer pieces, complete from start to finish; fresh new compositions that are ten or twenty minutes long, with dynamic changes, theme and development, melody, harmony, and contrapuntal or even fugal; preludes, interludes, postludes, and meditations; and every note and nuance scored.  In other words, something totally different.  That's all I'm talking about and wishing for.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 04:56:18 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2018, 05:30:59 PM »
Would you agree this thread is discussing two separate notions: Music and YouTube Synthesizer Demos? They are related, and not.

Yes, the original topic has broken up into two different issues.  I only intended the YouTube theme.  The other "traditional music" issue has already been discussed elsewhere.  It's a touchy topic.  I think a synthesizer forum is the wrong place for such a discussion, which is why I went into this unwillingly.  It better belongs on a blog as a discussion between mutual enthusiasts striving for a common goal.  It's pointless to go into it without a number of people who share the same views and are striving for the same goal.  Otherwise, it turns into yet another debate with those who don't even care for the idea.  But there are just so few of us. 

I wish more musicians like myself would take the synthesizer seriously.  What would that look like from a video perspective (since we started out talking about YouTube)?  To describe a setting: a musician sitting at a full-sized polyphonic synthesizer under a desk lamp in front of a music stand playing powerful and expressive solo synthesizer pieces, complete from start to finish; fresh new compositions that are ten or twenty minutes long, with dynamic changes, theme and development, melody, harmony, and contrapuntal or even fugal; preludes, interludes, postludes, and meditations; and every note and nuance scored.  In other words, something totally different.  That's all I'm talking about and wishing for.

I think itís a bit unfair to say they arenít taking it seriously. They are simply doing a different style that you donít enjoy. A lot of synth players arenít classically trained musicians but that doesnít make them somehow inferior. Some people might think your music is too redundant with constant use of pads and string sounds. Some people would say that you should just have a SoundCloud account because your videos are visually dull. Doesnít mean they are right or wrong. What Iíve noticed is a lot of people enjoy shorter content these days. While long compositions are nice I can almost be certain people will change videos half way through or divert their attention to something else and have the music play in the background. At the end of the day you have your own style that you do and do quite well. No sense in turning your nose up or looking down on others who donít do the same style. Focus on making your music be unique in the synth sub genre rather than focusing on making everyone else adopt your style.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 05:33:09 PM by LoboLives »
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Oberheim SEM-Pro, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

megamarkd

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Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2018, 09:46:27 PM »
I sorta feel this is straying away from the demo thing and becoming a bash-fest.

Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2018, 11:01:19 PM »
I sorta feel this is straying away from the demo thing and becoming a bash-fest.

I think itís simply a case of the question being unclear. The core topic went from being about criticisms of presentations to criticisms of performances to debates on personal taste.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Oberheim SEM-Pro, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.