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Demo-Weary

Demo-Weary
« on: July 17, 2018, 05:19:58 PM »
I have grown completely exhausted from YouTube synthesizer demonstrations.  Until a year ago or so, I used to spend sometimes two hours in a day watching demos of synthesizers.  They weren't at all what I was looking for, but I watched them anyway.  It was as if I was always hoping they would tie me over until I finally found one I liked.  But no more.  I am done with watching fantastic multi thousand-dollar instruments being used to make little blips and blurbs, noises and effects, and perhaps just a few chords.  It is so rare to find a video in which a synthesizer is played for an uninterrupted five minutes of solo synthesizer music, the kind that showcases just the instrument, to the exclusion of the many devices that bury the synthesizer under a heap of beats, rhythms, sequences, loops, and other repetitious distractions.  Alongside these, the other half of the demos consists of the users quickly running through sounds, tweaking a few parameters - especially the filter cut off - and then feeling their job is done.   

So many superb instruments these days, but so few musical demonstrations of them.  So much noise, so little music. 

   
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 05:38:36 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2018, 08:33:05 PM »
Why donít you do instrument demonstrations? Thereís not many Poly Evolver demos and you certainly are knowledgeable and passionate enough to do some videos. Iíd watch em :)
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2018, 08:41:47 PM »
But that's exactly what I do.  Those videos are musical demonstrations, rather than parameter exercises.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2018, 09:57:07 PM »
But that's exactly what I do.  Those videos are musical demonstrations, rather than parameter exercises.

I mean you actually explaining in detail about the Poly Evolver not just your songs/performances.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

Gerry Havinga

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  • Really enjoying creating sounds and composing.
    • For the love of electronic music
Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2018, 04:04:28 AM »
I have grown completely exhausted from YouTube synthesizer demonstrations.  Until a year ago or so, I used to spend sometimes two hours in a day watching demos of synthesizers.  They weren't at all what I was looking for, but I watched them anyway.  It was as if I was always hoping they would tie me over until I finally found one I liked.  But no more.  I am done with watching fantastic multi thousand-dollar instruments being used to make little blips and blurbs, noises and effects, and perhaps just a few chords.  It is so rare to find a video in which a synthesizer is played for an uninterrupted five minutes of solo synthesizer music, the kind that showcases just the instrument, to the exclusion of the many devices that bury the synthesizer under a heap of beats, rhythms, sequences, loops, and other repetitious distractions.  Alongside these, the other half of the demos consists of the users quickly running through sounds, tweaking a few parameters - especially the filter cut off - and then feeling their job is done.   

So many superb instruments these days, but so few musical demonstrations of them.  So much noise, so little music. 
Yes I totally agree. Technical, how-to style, demonstrations are great from my perspective as long as the demonstrator sets clear objectives at the beginning making clear what he/she is trying to achieve. But there is a lack of musical "displays" what an artist can achieve with an instrument. Perhaps also an audio only platform, with options to include text to explain how the artist has gotten to this result, will be better suited for that.

I really enjoy Troels' videos demoing the Prophet X and some of the products 8Dio are selling. He is capable of demonstrating a really nice combination of musical & strong emotive showcases plus all the technical stuff. He also enjoys wine and candle light  :) that appeals to the romantic part of me.
Prophet X, Prophet Rev2 and Evolver desktop, Waldorf Blofeld, Roland System-1, Korg Microstation, Nord Rack 2, Akai S5000, Dato DUO, Elektron Digitone, Deepmind12D, Schrittmacher, Bitwig v2. Daw-less...

https://soundcloud.com/user-252754541
https://open.spotify.com/artist/1QKocb4H6mNRVJ01qyqd

chysn

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Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2018, 06:16:18 AM »
I don't have any problem finding music on YouTube.
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Gerry Havinga

  • ***
  • 294
  • Really enjoying creating sounds and composing.
    • For the love of electronic music
Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2018, 10:22:03 AM »
Nice one for the Rev2: https://youtu.be/dFgva0rv71M

Pure music, static "video"  picture.

Why all this Youtube video obsession?
Prophet X, Prophet Rev2 and Evolver desktop, Waldorf Blofeld, Roland System-1, Korg Microstation, Nord Rack 2, Akai S5000, Dato DUO, Elektron Digitone, Deepmind12D, Schrittmacher, Bitwig v2. Daw-less...

https://soundcloud.com/user-252754541
https://open.spotify.com/artist/1QKocb4H6mNRVJ01qyqd

Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2018, 11:19:43 AM »
I don't have any problem finding music on YouTube.

Sure, you can find bits and pieces.  But I mean substantial pieces of solo synthesizer music that you can play for some time in the background while you're working.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2018, 11:25:32 AM »
Why all this Youtube video obsession?

No obsession here.  At this point, I don't even look any longer.  I'll continue to post music, but now I keep to my little corner of YouTube and leave it at that.  It just seems like such a lost opportunity.  But if there is an obsession, I'd say it's with the fascination with posting countless videos that demonstrate the same revolving fragments of parameter tweaking over and over and over and over and over.  Sure, a certain amount of this is useful, but the sheer volume of it is crazy.

« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 11:35:29 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

chysn

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Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2018, 01:16:09 PM »
It sounds like you're expecting a coupling of "demos" and "music" that doesn't really exist.

I've never been much of a watcher of demos, but for the music I'm interested in, there's no shortage of ways to watch people use specific things. Emily Sprague will list modules used and some degree of patch notes, and you can watch her work, but she's not trying to "sell" or "demonstrate" any particular thing.

Or ann annie, same thing. I was looking into the Hermod module, and found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DNpKkSnbRM, which is a complete piece of music, but shows the usage of the gear. Nobody's chatting about it, and nobody's in a hurry to explain everything.

I have bought modules based on seeing them used in these types of videos, but that's not the purpose of the videos.

It's largely a matter of subscribing to the people you like and seeing what they make. I care more about processes than about how squealy a filter's resonance can get. When I really want to dig into the operation of something, I don't care that much whether it's musical.
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2018, 03:23:58 PM »
You're right, Chysn, in suggesting that "demo" is not the right word.  Call it what you or I will, solo synthesizer music of the traditional sort is not nearly as abundant on YouTube as the masses of geeky techy noisy stuff that makes me check my woofers for tears.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 03:26:37 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

chysn

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Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2018, 08:31:42 PM »
You're right, Chysn, in suggesting that "demo" is not the right word.  Call it what you or I will, solo synthesizer music of the traditional sort is not nearly as abundant on YouTube as the masses of geeky techy noisy stuff that makes me check my woofers for tears.

So the problem you're bringing to our attention is that people aren't making the kind of music you like? I know you like Bach, and there's no shortage of Bach for synthesizer, so what is it? I feel like a renewed trip to the Big Dark Relativistic Pit is in order, or else we're nearing Get Off My Lawn You Crazy Kids territory.

I don't think there's ever been so much good stuff out there, but the percentages are about the same as they've always been. I wouldn't presume to suggest that you expand your musical horizons, but I can't believe that you can't find anything worth listening to.
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2018, 08:52:42 PM »
I always thought traditional synthesizer music was bleeps and bloops ala The Barons. Synths originally were used for sound effects rather than actual musical compositions...but that changed with Wendy Carlos and itís use in Disco and Dance music. Regardless Sacred Synthesis, your music sounds nothing like traditional synthesizer music at all. I would equate it more towards early Phaedra era Tangerine Dream type soundscapes with focus mainly on pads and strings rather than repetitive motifs or classical performance.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

Gerry Havinga

  • ***
  • 294
  • Really enjoying creating sounds and composing.
    • For the love of electronic music
Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2018, 12:07:03 AM »
I always thought traditional synthesizer music was bleeps and bloops ala The Barons. Synths originally were used for sound effects rather than actual musical compositions...but that changed with Wendy Carlos and itís use in Disco and Dance music. Regardless Sacred Synthesis, your music sounds nothing like traditional synthesizer music at all. I would equate it more towards early Phaedra era Tangerine Dream type soundscapes with focus mainly on pads and strings rather than repetitive motifs or classical performance.
There is also quite a bit of Klaus Schulze videos and performance out there. Personally I really like his stuff with Lisa Gerrard, especially Rheingold and Loreley are amazingly beautiful and haunting, almost ambient, compositions (and they last for 20+ minutes ;-).
Prophet X, Prophet Rev2 and Evolver desktop, Waldorf Blofeld, Roland System-1, Korg Microstation, Nord Rack 2, Akai S5000, Dato DUO, Elektron Digitone, Deepmind12D, Schrittmacher, Bitwig v2. Daw-less...

https://soundcloud.com/user-252754541
https://open.spotify.com/artist/1QKocb4H6mNRVJ01qyqd

Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2018, 06:47:40 AM »
Yeah, I knew I was stepping in it with the expression, "traditional music."  I knew it.  It's a lightening rod among synthesists.  Ah well....carry on, fellas.  Just seeing if the water temperature might have at all changed around here.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 06:51:12 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

chysn

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Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2018, 07:35:43 AM »
Yeah, I knew I was stepping in it with the expression, "traditional music."  I knew it.  It's a lightening rod among synthesists.  Ah well....carry on, fellas.  Just seeing if the water temperature might have at all changed around here.

The root of the problem with the expression "traditional music" is that it doesn't mean anything but to the person using it. We can make suppositions about what each other's traditions might be, but there's no clarity to it. Somebody here might have exactly what you're looking for, but isn't really sure what you mean.
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2018, 08:11:25 AM »
I've explained before in detail exactly what I mean with the expression "traditional music."  Terms either have meaning, or there's no point in using them.  That's why I've tried to be clear.  I'm not referring necessarily to a style of music, although in my case, the preference is always for classical.  Yet, that classical music need not be Baroque.  In fact, I think Baroque music sounds terrible on synthesizers.  The reason it's been so popular, I would guess, is that Baroque music used counterpoint, which conveniently consisted of individual lines performed simultaneously.  That happened to suit the multi-tracking of synthesizer parts, each of which could then use a different patch.  The two seemed to be a perfect match for each other.  But in my opinion, the synthesizer could never improve on the sound of the original acoustic instruments, and the numberless attempts I've listened to for decades make that certain in my mind.  There have been some impressive attempts, alright, but still.

By the expression "traditional music" I always mean the use of the fundamental elements of melody, harmony, beat, and rhythm.  Where I part with the typical synthesizer music is in what I would call a mind-numbing exaggerated use of beat and rhythm - due to the use of drum machines and related devices - and also with the additionally exaggerated use of repetition, due to looping and sequencing.  To these four fundamental elements of music I would also add those of form and theme and development.  These are the most challenging elements in composition - the intellectual aspects that require effort and discipline in giving a coherent shape to the musical ideas that might have come quickly and easily.  To mention two examples - the beginning and the end.  The first few measures of a composition can be very difficult to create, and so can the conclusion of the whole piece, which must somehow, by a near miracle, conclude in a logical and beautiful way all that has gone before it.  Traditional music includes these, but what I constantly hear among synthesists is the avoidance of the beginning and the end, and the replacement of them with a convenient fading in and fading out, so that there really isn't a beginning and definitely isn't a conclusion.

When I refer to the absence of "traditional music" performed on solo synthesizer on YouTube, I mean complete keyboard (!) compositions performed start to finish by a human being's hands and/or feet, without other devices that occupy an awful lot of time and space, and that use the above mentioned-elements of music.  What I also dislike in the use of these ubiquitous little devices is their covering over of the sound of the synthesizer.  A fine carefully designed patch deserves to be heard from start to finish.

I guess what amazes me is that the above paragraph seems like Egyptian hieroglyphics to synthesists.  So be it.  But jeepers, give it a chance.  This is where I believe there could arise a fabulous repertoire of mature (!) solo synthesizer music - complete compositions that need nothing except one synthesizer (or several) and one synthesist (or several).  And what is frustrating is when the response to this proposition is, "Well, that's not real synthesizer music, cause you're not using the synthesizer like a real synthesist would."  In other words, my music is not real synthesizer music, but your synthesizer music is, because of the high priority that equipment plays in its creation.  Nonsense!  Real synthesizer music consists of music composed for a synthesizer, even if that music could be performed on an organ or a piano.  It was intended first and foremost for the synthesizer, and the lofty place given to the traditional elements of music changes nothing.  It's synthesizer music, period. 
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 09:35:08 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

chysn

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Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2018, 09:24:16 AM »
Yes, that clarifies it, thank you. I think the confusion is that "traditional," to me, refers to cultural traditional music, which is really diverse. Japanese traditional music is a lot different than African traditional music. It sounds to me like you mean "classical music," which isn't even really traditional European music. But no matter, we have a context for what you mean.

And I can see why you're having trouble finding that kind of thing. It's like several endangered paradigms stacked on top of each other, but with synthesizers. You might have to resolve to being the lonely holdout for a while. Music in exile. There's something romantic about that, right?
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2018, 09:31:54 AM »
I just added a few important things to the second paragraph above.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Demo-Weary
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2018, 09:37:28 AM »
Yes, that clarifies it, thank you. I think the confusion is that "traditional," to me, refers to cultural traditional music, which is really diverse. Japanese traditional music is a lot different than African traditional music. It sounds to me like you mean "classical music," which isn't even really traditional European music. But no matter, we have a context for what you mean.

And I can see why you're having trouble finding that kind of thing. It's like several endangered paradigms stacked on top of each other, but with synthesizers. You might have to resolve to being the lonely holdout for a while. Music in exile. There's something romantic about that, right?

That was a reasonable and generous response, Chysn.  I appreciate it very much.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co