The Official Sequential/DSI Forum

Why so few of us?

Why so few of us?
« on: July 17, 2018, 03:38:42 PM »
I'm curious what you guys and girls think about why there are so few P12 owners/players out there? (at least relative to other expensive polys). It might not be accurate, but I get that feeling based on number of articles, forum posts, for sale listings, etc. Don't get me wrong, I love my P12 and find it easy to use, but it does seem underrepresented in the synth community...

Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2018, 03:57:11 PM »
It just seems that way because thousands of P12 players are way too busy creating amazing music to regularly post here  ;)
Mutiny in Jonestown, Progressive Rock Since 1987:

Website: https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown
Bandcamp: https://mutinyinjonestown.bandcamp.com/

Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2018, 04:51:37 PM »
In my opinion, one reason is the large number of Prophet 12 videos that terribly misrepresent its character.  There are so many YouTube demos that dwell exclusively on its caustic digital side, to the exclusion of its other abilities.  I fell for this misrepresentation myself, until I was finally able to borrow one.  The fact is, the P12 has a wonderful warmth to it, and it's not at all hard to find it, but it's not what seems to fascinate many owners.  It's a shame, because I found the instrument to be very strong in the domain of traditional analog sound, in addition to all the rest.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 06:58:31 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2018, 06:40:27 PM »
It's a shame, because I found the instrument to be very strong in the domain of traditional analog sound, in addition to all the rest.

This and it's massive modulation matrix is what sold me.  I was a bit concerned after all the digital focused youtube vids you mentioned, but I still believed I could get the analog sounds I was after...
Mutiny in Jonestown, Progressive Rock Since 1987:

Website: https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown
Bandcamp: https://mutinyinjonestown.bandcamp.com/

Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2018, 06:59:52 PM »
Good for you.  But I didn't believe it until I had proven it for myself.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2018, 01:26:13 AM »
When I bought my previous synth (Yamaha DX7 in 1984/5) I was dragged into a shop by a mate who warbled on about how it made sounds like bells and bassoons. I had no interest in buying something that made sounds "like" anything, but whilst I was reading the manual it occurred to me that by choosing the settings halfway between the 'bell' ones and the 'bassoon' ones I might start to create original sounds.
 It turns out that over 95% of DX7s returned to the factory still had all the preset sounds - nobody had bothered to modify the voices or write new ones. The DX7 was a massive seller - everyone wanted one so they could copy the noises that their favourite pop groups made.
I bought the Prophet 12 to replace 2 broken DX7s, because I realised that I could write fantastic sounds with it - I found the presets unappealing, the videos I saw all seemed to be aimed at people making very old fashioned music. Without the emergence of modern artists making radical new sounds or even using P12 presets, and with the competition of computer derived music, there has been no popular take up of musicians wanting to copy P12 sounds from their favourite songs.
 Perhaps the days of the big synth have passed their heyday and too many people are happy with laptop based music. Those of us that want more have a massive choice of digital keyboards, whereas the DX7 was clearly a 'Leader'. I am completely happy (post the Linear FM update) with my choice to buy the P12, but nobody hearing my music is going to rush out and buy a new synth because my tiny audiences mostly think about the music, not the equipment.

Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2018, 10:55:38 AM »
Perhaps the perception of "so few players" might  be partially rectified right here on this forum.  I wish more people could post their sounds, and especially their composed songs.  Pro 2 and OB 6 seem even less represented in that regard.  I know  there a lot of Pro 2's out there, but not a heck of a lot of music posted unfortunately.

As Chaparral eluded to,  there may just be less people posting full songs who use hardware instruments, especially those whom use a high grade instrument like the P12.   It is perhaps the most capable synth instrument for any genera IMO, not too hard to use either, so I don't think its a factor of the instrument itself. 

General rambling on here....but I'm getting tired of seeing the surge of cut and paste laptop stuff in so much electronic music.  Sure the technology of the software is great, but I wish more of it could be recorded as actually played reintroducing the musicianship aspect.  I mean I myself multi-track a lot, but I at least play the tracks over each other.   There is something valuable in that regard to the listener-  just like a true sunset photo versus a photoshopped one might be considered more "honest" for lack of a better word.   Anyway...this trend of more folks using a table/PC  as a more affordable or preferred method to make music nowadays might ironically only serve to only strengthen our niche as hardware users some day.

Oh, and speaking of classic....age is only one variable for being a classic.  (There's is a whole thread on this on this forum about what makes a classic).   I went to a car show a few weeks ago and saw on display an in my opinion "ugly" early 80's K car.   It didn't quite fit next to the 70's Roadrunner of the same make ;)     P12 will certainly be a classic someday, and perhaps even sooner than age would normally dictate. 

DSI Equipment: Poly Evolver Keyboard, Evolver desktop, Prophet 8,  Pro-2, OB6, P-12
 

https://Soundcloud.com/wavescape-1

Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2018, 11:13:03 AM »
I completely agree with you, Soundquest.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 06:52:26 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2018, 01:47:16 PM »
In my opinion, one reason is the large number of Prophet 12 videos that terribly misrepresent its character.

Completely agree.  I own a Prophet 6, just received a Prophet X and a Prophet 12 (I've been deciding).  I love the Prophet 12 and should have got this years ago. Absolutely gorgeous synth and fantastic controller.  None of the concerns that I've read online were justified IMO, and I can't believe I was put off by them.

The Prophet X, however, didn't make my cut. It goes back.  The samples, sound of the samples and polyphony are just too much of an obstacle for what I do. Sad as I really wanted to like it ... but i just don't. I ordered the Prophet 12 after experiencing, and being disappointed by the X to see if it was something I would gravitate to ... and have I ever.

Dave really should work on his PR, address the misconceptions in the market on the Prophet 12 and have a chat with 8DIO ...
Hammond C2/L122, lamm memorymoog, minimoog Voyager (Rudi Linhard mod), Prophet 5, Prophet 6, Prophet 12, Andromeda A6, Roland A-80, muse research Receptor, Yamaha DX7IIFD/E!, Motif ES6, Montage 8

Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2018, 05:31:51 PM »
I think you start on a false premise tbh, I'm not sure it's rare than anything else.


Are there really more more Roland Jupiter 80's in the wild for example than there is Dave Smith Prophet 12's?


And if you're comparing synths (not workstations like Kronos Motif Xf etc), then I think the Prophet 12 is about as popular as you can expect  a 2300 synth can be.


It's quite a specialised product so by definition has a smaller market to appeal to - much like any other dedicated synth in that price range tbh.


Even synths like the Access Virus Ti2 are relatively rare - it's the cheaper versions that tend to be more common or the cheaper synths.
You may see more Roland System 8's and JD-XA's out there, but they are less than half the price and don't come close to the Prophet 12 IMO.


I think the other issue is it isn't an analogue synth, which w[size=78%]ith all the knobs on the front panel I think people expect it to be[/size][/size][size=78%] and then maybe go into it with rather the wrong expectations.[/size]
[/size]
Don't get me wrong I think it can sound as good as most analogue synths, but it's a slow burn the Prophet 12 and takes a while to gel with (at least it did for me) and I say that as someone who absolutely LOVES the Prophet 12. :)

So I don't think it's particularly unpopular, I think it's about as popular as you could expect a synth in it's price range to be. 2300 buys you many other pieces of equipment, so there is lots of competition.

The other factor is the Prophet 12 is just an element of my music. Most of my songs feature sounds from many other synths too and tbh most of the sounds I write are created using 3 or 4 different synths.

I have never understood why some feel that making a sound with the oscillators of one synth is more valid than making it with combination of oscillators of many.

For that reason it's difficult for me to post a track showcasing my Prophet 12 because quite often it'll only supply 2 or 3 of the sounds in the track and I use other synths in most of my compositions.

For me though, the Prophet 12 is a stunning instrument and a gorgeous sounding synth.

It's possibly my favourite synth ever and I plan to keep it for life! :)

Definitely a future classic IMO. :)

As for demos - maybe there should be more showing sounds like this rather than the standard bass and leads that are pretty much ubiquitous now - show some big swirly pads like this instead. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFaqYyPBOjs


Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2018, 05:35:24 PM »
Or if a bit of Depeche Mode is more your thing....:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph9zt6jA6HE&feature=youtu.be

Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2018, 11:23:51 AM »
The P12 family is strong <3

Quai34

  • *
  • 42
  • FORMER PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF SAINT-BONIFA
Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2018, 05:52:48 PM »
I will be honest, I had never planned to buy one because the 4000 CAN$ was a price I had reached only one time when I bought my Stage 2 and I was considering it to be the maximum I could spend on a single keyboard....So, the P12 was a dream only...But that came true when I saw a new one, in a store, at 2700 CAN$....And the store had the financing as well...
So, I bought it and I love it, maybe I could have bought it earlier If I had known how gorgeous it was but I was never impressed by any reviews about the DSi synth when they were saying that the P08 sucked....
I bought a P08 and I never regretted it so, I was almost sure it was going to be the same with the P12...
But the price,'hey....Higher the price is, less and less people will buy it then, less noise....Taht's why we think we are very few...
Stage 2, NL2X+TC Pedals, Nord C2, Matrix 1000 X2, Proteus 2000, Prophet 12 & P08//Tetra+Eventide H9, TX802, Roland D50+PG1000, AX5080, AX keytar, Waldorf Streichfett, 2 Yorkville PS-10P, Bass: Ibanez SR1200+G&L L2000. Guitars: G&L Legacy HSS, Asat Blueboys, Asat Deluxe Savanna, Ibanez Artstar AS153

Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2018, 02:19:42 AM »
The P'12 is an expensive synth and it was controvestial, I guess because many people were expecting an updated Prophet V and the early factory preset, which used a lot feedback, distorsion, cool for electro-industrial, not at all for funk...

Here's the work where I used a lot of P'12 where I used a lot of techniques (VA, FM, heavy modulation...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHjY6SNGjJ0

And that's definitely my favourite sound I made with this synth
https://thedisease.bandcamp.com/track/dusk



Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2018, 12:26:57 PM »
The fact is, the P12 has a wonderful warmth to it, and it's not at all hard to find it

As I await mine in the mail, I've been wondering about this.  I mean, seems like you can just turn up the slop, touch up a little detune, throw on some slow LFOs and dial back the filter and it should sound quite warm, no?  Are there any other tricks you advise for getting warmth, or are in the Tips and Tricks thread?

Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2018, 12:59:31 PM »
The fact is, the P12 has a wonderful warmth to it, and it's not at all hard to find it

As I await mine in the mail, I've been wondering about this.  I mean, seems like you can just turn up the slop, touch up a little detune, throw on some slow LFOs and dial back the filter and it should sound quite warm, no?  Are there any other tricks you advise for getting warmth, or are in the Tips and Tricks thread?

There are a few in the tips & tricks thread. It's well worth a read.
Prophet 12, Modal 002, MFB Dominion 1, Behringer DeepMind 12D, Korg Polysix & EX-8000, Roland JX-8P, Ensoniq SQ-80, Kawai K3m and now an OB-6!

Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2018, 09:38:20 PM »
The way I started was to treat it like a P-08 and start with just the 2 oscs to get a basic feel.  As I got the feel of the filters, I began incorporating the other features.  It is a very warm and lush synth, but can get really edgy with just some minor tweaks.   The P-12 really rewards finesse. 
Jim Thorburn .  Toys-  Dave Smith: Prophet 08;
Pro 2; Prophet 12; EastWest Orchestral soft synths; Yamaha S-90; Yamaha Montage 8, Yamaha DX-7; KARP Odyssey; Ensoniq ESQ-1.  All run through a Sonar DAW with a Tascam DM-24 board.

Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2018, 12:52:11 PM »
The way I started was to treat it like a P-08 and start with just the 2 oscs to get a basic feel.  As I got the feel of the filters, I began incorporating the other features.  It is a very warm and lush synth, but can get really edgy with just some minor tweaks.   The P-12 really rewards finesse.

Yeah that's generally my approach anyway - I love bass so I almost always see what kind of punchy basses I can dial in with 1 osc, and build from there.  I've also noticed the finesse thing in a lot of videos - people turn the hack etc up way too much, where I hear a sweet spot as they start turning that if they would just stop, it would be a really nice sound.  It seems to me if you allow the accumulation of it's goodness to happen from many small tweaks, you'll get much farther than if you turn everything up to 11 from the get go.

Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2019, 07:33:32 AM »
I'm curious what you guys and girls think about why there are so few P12 owners/players out there? (at least relative to other expensive polys). It might not be accurate, but I get that feeling based on number of articles, forum posts, for sale listings, etc. Don't get me wrong, I love my P12 and find it easy to use, but it does seem underrepresented in the synth community...

Maybe not visible to the public but I use it quite a bit for Film Scoring, it is on my top of the list of favorites. I actually own Two of them (One as a spare) it gets lots of use in the studio. It really works well for Film and it is a great workhorse, Incidental etc.. You probably have heard it in movies and not even know its the P12 :) You would be surprised at how much use it gets.

Sad to see it is being discontinued, I hope there is a future replacement product and it is not the end of the line for this type of instrument. I
Moog Modular Model 15,Korg Prophecy,Korg Z1,Nord Modular Keyboard,DSI OB6,DSI P12,DSI Rev 2 16voiceMoog Minimoog D,SEM Modules,Moog Slim Phattys,Alesis QS 8.1,Alesis QSR,Roland Integra 7,Genelec 8341s,8040,8030,Novation Peak,Kawai K5000R,Eurorack Modulars,etc..

laurentluigi

  • *
  • 86
  • A starship nammed Prophet X !!!
Re: Why so few of us?
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2019, 09:56:05 AM »
Hello!
I'm a Prophet X owner...
I was looking for a space ship to travel across the Universe.
I find it.....but......
There is a problem with the main system...
As soon as it be fixed, I'll sell or exchange it to bring back a P12.
Fingers crossed to fix everything....
Then I'll be yours!!!!!

I'm curious what you guys and girls think about why there are so few P12 owners/players out there? (at least relative to other expensive polys). It might not be accurate, but I get that feeling based on number of articles, forum posts, for sale listings, etc. Don't get me wrong, I love my P12 and find it easy to use, but it does seem underrepresented in the synth community...