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Moog One

Re: Moog One
« Reply #100 on: October 08, 2018, 03:11:59 PM »
Oh for sure it's powerful on paper but I'm not hearing anything unique in any of it's demos.

That's of course always a matter of taste. I just wanted to point out that this was obviously a massive undertaking for Moog which clearly shows in the overall design and sets it apart from what we've seen so far.

I found the 3rd live stream quite impressive. It also gives a good insight in how the interaction via the display works:

https://youtu.be/zbfSxOqYJL4?t=1448

It's still early. Can't judge a synth on it's presets or SoundCloud demos. I love my Prophets and I hated all their demos and 90% of their presets.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

Re: Moog One
« Reply #101 on: October 08, 2018, 03:14:51 PM »
Oh for sure it's powerful on paper but I'm not hearing anything unique in any of it's demos.

That's of course always a matter of taste. I just wanted to point out that this was obviously a massive undertaking for Moog which clearly shows in the overall design and sets it apart from what we've seen so far.

I found the 3rd live stream quite impressive. It also gives a good insight in how the interaction via the display works:

https://youtu.be/zbfSxOqYJL4?t=1448

It's still early. Can't judge a synth on it's presets or SoundCloud demos. I love my Prophets and I hated all their demos and 90% of their presets.

Sure. Hence I posted the 3rd video. I think those demos currently provide a better overall understanding of how everything works. And just as with other incredibly deep synths, it will take a while for people to explore the full potential.

Gomjab

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Re: Moog One
« Reply #102 on: October 08, 2018, 05:54:54 PM »
I think people can debate the raw sound of the oscillators and filters but IMHO the sound design workflow is undeniable. It just looks like an instrument that will be a sheer pleasure to use. 

I actually thought of Razmoís sound design work here while watching Moogís live deep walkthrough video.  I also agree it can be a hard choice to drop so much money on a single synth when it could buy you two totally different synths like a PX and Quantum for same amount as the 16 voice.

I for one am just happy to see a bit of a hardware renaissance the last few years after the dark ages that were VSTs and mini keys.  Not starting a fight as I have some cool soft synths like Falcon.  Well maybe starting a fight concerning mini keys!  ;)

Re: Moog One
« Reply #103 on: October 08, 2018, 06:52:16 PM »
I do agree that while Iím not rushing out to get a Moog One right away (it likely will grow on me after a while) I do hope that this is sort of a potential preview of things to come in the analog world. A step away from portable and affordable and more a step into bigger format type synths. While I appreciate the Moog One, all its really done is make me salivate at the possibilities of Sequentialís next synth.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

Razmo

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Re: Moog One
« Reply #104 on: October 09, 2018, 02:21:12 AM »
Comparing ONE to P12 is not really fair for both... The P12 has many options the ONE do not and vice versa... P12 has audio rate modulation in the modmatrix on a digital and so precise level it does both linear and logarithmic FM... This is not doable with only analog hardware... It also have wavetable synthesis... Having both a P12 and ONE would be a good combi, and would rather question the need for a REV2 to that combi... In fact I will not compare or argue the coolness of having the ONE as your only analog polysynth, but it will not (in my case) take out either Quantum, Prophet X or Prophet 12 in any way... For me the battle is between other 8-16 voice analog polysynths... It will probably win on features and sound, but definitely not on price... Even the DeepMind is a contender worth considering if you want an analog polysynth... Both REV2 and Deepmind12 are deep and capable and may pretty much satisfy many users needs in a fraction of the price of a ONE, no matter how bright the ONE shines :)
If you need me, follow the shadows...

jok3r

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Re: Moog One
« Reply #105 on: October 09, 2018, 05:59:36 AM »
After seeing all the live streams posted here, the UI is the thing that makes me really jealous.

The sound seems to be very fat and moogish, yes... but that was expectable.

But at the moment it's really this screen and these 'more' knobs per section that I would want in all my synthesizers. I'm not a big fan of touch screens, but a screen that show's all the infos I need (e.g. a graphical representation of an EG) without any noticable delay is really a nice thing.
Or simply the fact that you can store so much presets and the way of organizing them. Storage is cheap in this millennium. A similar system should be the standard in any modern synthesizer.
(It is a different case if you have a synth like the P6 without any menues at all. I'm only thinking of synth that already have a screen and (little) menue diving like Rev2 or X)

Another thought from a live keaboarder: even if it looks perfect for live gigging... I would be very afraid to put this thing on stage at this price point. I think it would not leave my safe studio ;-)
Prophet Rev2, Novation Peak, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES,  Akai MPK 261

Sleep of Reason

Re: Moog One
« Reply #106 on: October 09, 2018, 07:57:31 AM »
Exactly, the UI is what I'm jealous of as well. I'm not so sure Dave has anyone in-house capable of programming something like that, but I'd love to be proven wrong. To be able to see exactly where everything is set at instantly & to be able to organize massive amounts of presets is something every synth should benefit from these days. The other option would be to have lights around the knobs indicating their settings and having a smaller screen at least showing filter/envelope settings. The other cool feature the One has is the capability to store snapshots enabling the ability to recall & compare prior edits. Supposedly no one at Moog knows how many presets or modulations the One can store due to the limit being so immense. Crazy.

P.S. These features are all undoubtedly incredibly beneficial, but there will always be a few who think we should remain stuck solely in the past like chimps throwing feces around. Waiting for the obligatory reply from a certain someone stating a preference for zero visual representation and unsorted patch selection via buttons...

dsetto

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Re: Moog One
« Reply #107 on: October 09, 2018, 08:23:59 AM »
Although I havenít played a One, Iím sure Iíd prefer itís sound over my Ď08 Rev2. However, for me today, a satisfying & effortlessly portable polyphonic keyboard is more important. (I remain satisfied with my analog poly, and donít want another one at this time.)

Iím glad Moogís got a polyphonic. Moog & DSIís offerings are quite complementary.

I didnít expect the Moog poly to have such exploration options. I imagine the 3rd layer is useful. It harkens to the 3 oscillator foundation.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 08:34:36 AM by dsetto »

jok3r

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Re: Moog One
« Reply #108 on: October 09, 2018, 09:02:06 AM »
Waiting for the obligatory reply from a certain someone stating a preference for zero visual representation and unsorted patch selection via buttons...

I think that is quite another approach of doing things. If there's a 100%-knob-per-function design, everything is alright for me. But as soon as menue diving starts and the synth must have a screen, it better is a screen that is capable of doing graphics and stuff and the running software is really helping me, instead of keeping me searching through endless parameters. I hope I can make my point clear. Both is pretty fine... i just think those middle ways are no longer up-to-date.

But that's just a thought. I'm still pretty happy with my new (middle way) Rev2 and have a lot of fun with it. It does my cover band stuff pretty well and gives me a lot of inspiration for other music. So if I don't win the lottery, I won't buy a One either.
Prophet Rev2, Novation Peak, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES,  Akai MPK 261

dsetto

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Re: Moog One
« Reply #109 on: October 09, 2018, 09:11:54 AM »
Oh for sure it's powerful on paper but I'm not hearing anything unique in any of it's demos.

That's of course always a matter of taste. I just wanted to point out that this was obviously a massive undertaking for Moog which clearly shows in the overall design and sets it apart from what we've seen so far.

I found the 3rd live stream quite impressive. It also gives a good insight in how the interaction via the display works:

https://youtu.be/zbfSxOqYJL4?t=1448

It's still early. Can't judge a synth on it's presets or SoundCloud demos. I love my Prophets and I hated all their demos and 90% of their presets.

As far as I'm concerned, it's not too early to have a pretty good assessment of what this synth is. The audio of the synth that has already been presented is sufficient to support the quality that was presumed likely. However, it is too early to likely have had the chance to play it. ... Online demos are a small part of my assessment process. I suppose I prefer to not read the last page of the book, first. But I'm not in the market for an instrument, so my curiosity is well tempered.

dsetto

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Re: Moog One
« Reply #110 on: October 09, 2018, 09:16:25 AM »
Exactly, the UI is what I'm jealous of as well. ... To be able to see exactly where everything is set at instantly...
Is this possible on the One? (I didn't catch that.)

Sleep of Reason

Re: Moog One
« Reply #111 on: October 09, 2018, 09:29:31 AM »
If there's a 100%-knob-per-function design, everything is alright for me.

Why would that matter when your patch settings typically aren't represented accurately by the knob settings? Even more so when you're switching between layers. This is exactly why lights around the knobs are ideal.

Is this possible on the One? (I didn't catch that.)
Not if you took what I was saying to mean every single setting at once, which would be impossible for a human to even perceive in a single instance anyhow. I meant everything is easily visible and instantly recognizable such as a visual of the filter or envelope.

Here's an example of its elegant way of representing things:
https://youtu.be/QV9AO2t67H8?t=51m27s
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 09:37:23 AM by Sleep of Reason »

jok3r

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Re: Moog One
« Reply #112 on: October 09, 2018, 09:48:07 AM »
If there's a 100%-knob-per-function design, everything is alright for me.
Why would that matter when your patch settings typically aren't represented accurately by the knob settings? Even more so when you're switching between layers. This is exactly why lights around the knobs are ideal.

But if we're talking about multiple layers... is this really knob-per-function? That's knob-per-function-per-layer I would guess... well, at least that was not what I thought of in my above statement ;-)

If a synth is implemented with 100% knob-per-function, I think it is meant to be programmed "by ear"? Sure, it would be nice to have lights around the knobs, or better motorized controls (I don't know if this is a very expensive thing... most digital mixers have motorized faders by now I would guess...).

I just think if it needs a display (because it's a very deep synth), then why not a display that is really up-to-date. Why should one add adisplay that shows only the value of a single parameter in a numeric representation? In other words: The display of the Rev2 is not so much of an improvement to the 3-digit-display of the P6 when it comes to pure information. The current parameter value could have also been shown on that 3-digit-thing. But I better shut up about that now, before I confuse myself and others more. I'm not a native English speaker and perhaps cannot make it clear enough ;-)
Prophet Rev2, Novation Peak, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES,  Akai MPK 261

Sleep of Reason

Re: Moog One
« Reply #113 on: October 09, 2018, 10:48:30 AM »
But if we're talking about multiple layers... is this really knob-per-function? That's knob-per-function-per-layer I would guess...
This is true.

If a synth is implemented with 100% knob-per-function, I think it is meant to be programmed "by ear"? Sure, it would be nice to have lights around the knobs, or better motorized controls (I don't know if this is a very expensive thing... most digital mixers have motorized faders by now I would guess...).
Of course how much all this matters depends on the complexity of the synth's architecture and at the end of the day a good ear is absolutely what matters most, it's just that it's ideal to know exactly where the settings are at before making edits. It also makes it much faster to get back to where you were at if you don't like what you just did. I thought about motorized knobs as well, but more complex mechanical parts not only ups the cost, it also makes for more things that can functionally go wrong. I think lights epitomize the form follows function rule and shouldn't offend the purist among us.

I just think if it needs a display (because it's a very deep synth), then why not a display that is really up-to-date. Why should one add adisplay that shows only the value of a single parameter in a numeric representation? In other words: The display of the Rev2 is not so much of an improvement to the 3-digit-display of the P6 when it comes to pure information. The current parameter value could have also been shown on that 3-digit-thing.

Agreed, both the REV2 screen and three digit displays are equally capable of showing a single parameter value change. They're under utilized on the P6 and OB-6 in that regard.

But I better shut up about that now, before I confuse myself and others more. I'm not a native English speaker and perhaps cannot make it clear enough ;-)
I'd say you're doing swell, especially if English is not your first language.

« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 11:49:46 AM by Sleep of Reason »

Re: Moog One
« Reply #114 on: October 09, 2018, 10:56:46 AM »
After more videos, I am still not blown away by the sound (unlike the DD CS80 clone for example, which totally delivered when it arrived in my studio), but I like the user interface, the 3 synths, the sequencer, etc.

I think this is the main area where hardware synths manufacturers can compete: UI. (Point 1 of my post before). But this is also an opportunity for a premium MIDI controller manufacturer. What combination of knobs, sliders, menu's (if any) can create the best creative workflow.

dsetto

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Re: Moog One
« Reply #115 on: October 09, 2018, 12:40:52 PM »
...
Is this possible on the One? (I didn't catch that.)
Not if you took what I was saying to mean every single setting at once, which would be impossible for a human to even perceive in a single instance anyhow. I meant everything is easily visible and instantly recognizable such as a visual of the filter or envelope.


Got it. So, once you're using more than one layer, like on the REV2, and you are editing layers back and forth, the knobs no longer represent their settings. ... That's future, next-level stuff for a controls-laden synth. (I believe Montage's knobs & sliders may have that - but, that's an incomplete picture of the sound.)

Gomjab

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Re: Moog One
« Reply #116 on: October 09, 2018, 06:54:45 PM »
This demo is amazing https://youtu.be/49vHK_D5-gA
At 17:30 he gets what I would swear was a layered patch but he was using both filters with clever use of tracking to create two distinct sounds across the key range on a single layer!

It was really cool to hear this guy talk about the design of the patch.  Great stuff.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 07:19:05 PM by Gomjab »

MPM

Re: Moog One
« Reply #117 on: October 13, 2018, 02:41:38 AM »
Good on them. Nice job. But Iíll pass this week since Iím buying a helicopter. Iíve heard that itís way better than driving a car in peak hours traffic.
OB-6  Prophet-6  Prophet.Rev2/16  no kids

Re: Moog One
« Reply #118 on: October 13, 2018, 12:04:45 PM »

Sorry to say, but I stand by my previous concern, that this synth is NOT worth 8k... at least in my opinion.

That's the thing about Moog kit though, it isn't worth the money compared to other manufacturers, they charge too much.

The upgrade to my Moog guitar for 13 pin midi was around $1500, this is a Ghost system, the same you can get in a similar quality Brian Moore guitar. The only difference is that with Brian moore you get the guitar thrown in for that price as well!

Moog charge over the odds because people will pay, it seems to work for them.

Re: Moog One
« Reply #119 on: October 14, 2018, 10:17:16 AM »

Sorry to say, but I stand by my previous concern, that this synth is NOT worth 8k... at least in my opinion.

That's the thing about Moog kit though, it isn't worth the money compared to other manufacturers, they charge too much.

The upgrade to my Moog guitar for 13 pin midi was around $1500, this is a Ghost system, the same you can get in a similar quality Brian Moore guitar. The only difference is that with Brian moore you get the guitar thrown in for that price as well!

Moog charge over the odds because people will pay, it seems to work for them.

In a way they are the Gibson of synthesizers in that regard.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.