Making the Prophet 6 sound more like a Prophet 5

[LoboLives]

On one of my videos it was suggested that in order to make the P6 sound more “vintage” I would need to back the oscillators off to half way and decrease the amp envelope amount.

For me I usually add a touch of distortion and Slop around 9 or 10 o clock and a bit of noise.

Any suggestions at all?

[Manbird]

On one of my videos it was suggested that in order to make the P6 sound more “vintage” I would need to back the oscillators off to half way and decrease the amp envelope amount.

For me I usually add a touch of distortion and Slop around 9 or 10 o clock and a bit of noise.

Any suggestions at all?

If you can bear it, there's a thread on GS titled "I want to love the Prophet 6," with James Meeker contributing loads of tips on such. He's a former (maybe current?) P5 owner, now deeply into the P6. Meanwhile, a funny little discovery for me was found in the P6 manual. I did a quick skim just now but can't find the bit I'm thinking of, but basically it suggests using the Filter Env in the Poly Mod section in negative mode. This allows for greater range of subtle filter tracking. Or something like that!

[LoboLives]

It seems with the Prophet 6 the Oscillators are naturally overdriven when maxed out and the main key to achieving that "vintage" sound is an approach of "less is more". With Oscillator levels maybe around 50-75% and the AMP Envelope around 60%.

Perhaps this has to do with the original P5 oscillators being, I don't want to say weak, but not as powerful or precise as the ones on the P6.

It seems the basic concept for the P6 was a P5's basic functions on steroids...and I think in addition to a more powerful Poly Mod section, the Oscillators also fall into that category. By default they are a bit overdriven and someone harsh sounding/metallic sounding and they need to be tamed to sound warmer/more organic.

[DaveP6guy]

On one of my videos it was suggested that in order to make the P6 sound more “vintage” I would need to back the oscillators off to half way and decrease the amp envelope amount.

For me I usually add a touch of distortion and Slop around 9 or 10 o clock and a bit of noise.

Any suggestions at all?

I've had my Prophet-6 for about 4 months now and I have been surprised with how vintage I could make it. I'm not sure if it is really Prophet-5 like because my ownership of a working Prophet-5 (which was a Rev 2.0 and somewhat quirky I would guess compared to most later P5s) never overlapped with my P6. It was P5 out of the car and P6 in, more or less.

I'm not a lover of many of the P6 presets I must say. Maybe it's just that styles have changed, production vallues and stock sounds have changed.

I would say:

1. Get away from the presets and enjoy the P6 more. Panel Mode (Preset button light off) is a good place to start and just turn everything off and get the oscillators going one by one, detune to taste (keep slop at 0 to start with) and then go from there with the rest of the panel functions. Don't forget to save any good sound since you have 500 memory locations to overwrite with new stuff.

2. Don't be afraid to make 5-10 versions of a patch and store them all, then come back to them later and see which is really best. It may well be the one you didn't like when you programmed it.

3. Store a patch whenever it reminds you of your favourite Roxy / Genesis / Gabriel / Collins / Rush / Duran / Japan / Depeche / Jarre / Vangelis sound or whatever. Maybe you hate all those people and love the 90s. It'll probably be nothing like it really but I keep finding sounds that remind me of somebody I like. I have not really found this on any other synth, not even my P5, which is strange.

4. Turn the effects off and get as good a patch without them. Sometimes they get in the way.

5. Someone mentioned turning the voice pan spread down to 0 to get a more 'mono' sound.

6. Play the P6 as much as possible.

7. Record what you play and play it back. I spend more time listening to what I have recorded on cassette tape (good ol' analog wow and fluttery cassettes, 20-30 year old most of them) then I do playing the P6. Listening back, going out of the room and hearing it from upstairs, I can tell what cuts through nicely, instead of frying my ears next to the speakers.
If I think of anything else, I will post it on this post by editing it again.

[DaveP6guy]

Meanwhile, a funny little discovery for me was found in the P6 manual. I did a quick skim just now but can't find the bit I'm thinking of, but basically it suggests using the Filter Env in the Poly Mod section in negative mode. This allows for greater range of subtle filter tracking. Or something like that!

I think it's the bit on PP23-24. I 'll quote it here (claiming Fair Use")!

"Changing the Filter Envelope’s Response Curve
By default, the envelopes of all synthesizers are designed to have certain
type of response curve that is largely dependent on the preference of the
designer. In most cases, this can’t be changed. The current preference is
that the faster or snappier the envelopes, the better.
However, in the case of the Prophet-6, there is a hidden feature in the
Poly Mod section that allows you to modify the responsiveness of the
Filter Envelope’s ADSR controls. This opens up a new level of fine
adjustment of these controls that is subtle but powerful. Try it and see.
24 Amplifier Envelope Dave Smith Instruments
To adjust the responsiveness of the filter envelope:
1. Select a program — such as a synth brass sound — that has a slightly
soft but bright attack.
2. Repeatedly play a series of notes or chords on the keyboard, so you can
hear the effect of the adjustments as you follow the steps below.
3. In the Poly Mod section, enable the lp filter as the only destination
(disable all other Poly Mod destinations such as freq 1, freq 2 etc.).
4. In the Poly Mod section, turn the filter env control slightly counterclockwise.
Try a setting of about 11 o’clock.
5. Continue to play a series of chords and turn the env amount knob
clockwise in the low-pass filter section. Try moving it back and forth
between 1 o’clock and 3 o’clock.
6. As you do this, compare different settings of the Poly Mod filter env
control, the Low-Pass Filter env amount, and different Attack, Decay,
Sustain, and Release settings on the Filter Envelope.
The interaction of these controls is worth exploring for greater flexibility
and control of the Filter Envelope.
Amplifier Envelope"

[jmnes]

I’m about two months into Prophet 6 ownership and this thread - along with the gearslutz post referenced above - have been the most helpful things I’ve come across.

Turning the oscillators down and subtle modulation are where the character of the instrument come alive for me.

[abstrx]

It seems with the Prophet 6 the Oscillators are naturally overdriven when maxed out and the main key to achieving that "vintage" sound is an approach of "less is more". With Oscillator levels maybe around 50-75% and the AMP Envelope around 60%.

Perhaps this has to do with the original P5 oscillators being, I don't want to say weak, but not as powerful or precise as the ones on the P6.

It seems the basic concept for the P6 was a P5's basic functions on steroids...and I think in addition to a more powerful Poly Mod section, the Oscillators also fall into that category. By default they are a bit overdriven and someone harsh sounding/metallic sounding and they need to be tamed to sound warmer/more organic.

Here are Tom Loncaric's tips from his Bach on the P6 videos on imitating P5 timbres on the P6:

1- Oscillator gain settings are set low in order to not drive the filter too hard.
2- The slop function is on about 25%, and the polymod is modulating oscillator 1 a tiny bit, and both these things give the slight sense of pitch instability found on vintage synthesizers.
3- The high pass filter is cutting some of the low end to imitate the lesser bass response of the old gear.
4- Finally, added some noise and distortion (!) to match the slight fuzziness of the vintage Prophet. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXsf22OQikY

[LoboLives]

It seems with the Prophet 6 the Oscillators are naturally overdriven when maxed out and the main key to achieving that "vintage" sound is an approach of "less is more". With Oscillator levels maybe around 50-75% and the AMP Envelope around 60%.

Perhaps this has to do with the original P5 oscillators being, I don't want to say weak, but not as powerful or precise as the ones on the P6.

It seems the basic concept for the P6 was a P5's basic functions on steroids...and I think in addition to a more powerful Poly Mod section, the Oscillators also fall into that category. By default they are a bit overdriven and someone harsh sounding/metallic sounding and they need to be tamed to sound warmer/more organic.

Here are Tom Loncaric's tips from his Bach on the P6 videos on imitating P5 timbres on the P6:

1- Oscillator gain settings are set low in order to not drive the filter too hard.
2- The slop function is on about 25%, and the polymod is modulating oscillator 1 a tiny bit, and both these things give the slight sense of pitch instability found on vintage synthesizers.
3- The high pass filter is cutting some of the low end to imitate the lesser bass response of the old gear.
4- Finally, added some noise and distortion (!) to match the slight fuzziness of the vintage Prophet. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXsf22OQikY

Wonderful! Do you find that when you lower the volume of the oscillators and increase the master volume it brings in some unwanted noise or hiss from the signal?

[jmnes]

Wonderful! Do you find that when you lower the volume of the oscillators and increase the master volume it brings in some unwanted noise or hiss from the signal?

Definitely. The gain staging on the Prophet 6 is a little tricky, but you’ll  put some noise in there if you turn the oscillators down a lot (which may be necessary for the sound you’re doing).

I’m still doing a lot of experimentation on where to put the oscillator / amp / master levels for my own patches.

Right now, I usually set the oscillators around halfway, adjusted for the sound I desire pushing the filter.  The env amount as hot as possible without clipping.

As far as I understand, the master volume and program volume only attenuate the signal, so I keep them both all the way up and try to set each program as close to each other just with the env amount.

The prophet then goes directly into a compressor with a pretty high threshold that just smooths off the more aggressive bursts.

[LPF83]

Meanwhile, a funny little discovery for me was found in the P6 manual. I did a quick skim just now but can't find the bit I'm thinking of, but basically it suggests using the Filter Env in the Poly Mod section in negative mode. This allows for greater range of subtle filter tracking. Or something like that!

I think it's the bit on PP23-24. I 'll quote it here (claiming Fair Use")!

"Changing the Filter Envelope’s Response Curve
By default, the envelopes of all synthesizers are designed to have certain
type of response curve that is largely dependent on the preference of the
designer. In most cases, this can’t be changed. The current preference is
that the faster or snappier the envelopes, the better.
However, in the case of the Prophet-6, there is a hidden feature in the
Poly Mod section that allows you to modify the responsiveness of the
Filter Envelope’s ADSR controls. This opens up a new level of fine
adjustment of these controls that is subtle but powerful. Try it and see.
24 Amplifier Envelope Dave Smith Instruments
To adjust the responsiveness of the filter envelope:
1. Select a program — such as a synth brass sound — that has a slightly
soft but bright attack.
2. Repeatedly play a series of notes or chords on the keyboard, so you can
hear the effect of the adjustments as you follow the steps below.
3. In the Poly Mod section, enable the lp filter as the only destination
(disable all other Poly Mod destinations such as freq 1, freq 2 etc.).
4. In the Poly Mod section, turn the filter env control slightly counterclockwise.
Try a setting of about 11 o’clock.
5. Continue to play a series of chords and turn the env amount knob
clockwise in the low-pass filter section. Try moving it back and forth
between 1 o’clock and 3 o’clock.
6. As you do this, compare different settings of the Poly Mod filter env
control, the Low-Pass Filter env amount, and different Attack, Decay,
Sustain, and Release settings on the Filter Envelope.
The interaction of these controls is worth exploring for greater flexibility
and control of the Filter Envelope.
Amplifier Envelope"

So is the idea behind this trick that it works kind of like gain staging, allowing more resolution on the main filter env knob?
When I first read it I was kind of excited because I thought maybe there was maybe a difference in using the polymod negative envelope knob and just cutting back on the filter env, but I can't really tell a difference.  If that's the case I'd rather keep my polymod free for another function and just cut back on filter env amount for a vintage sound.