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10 voice Prophet 6?

10 voice Prophet 6?
« on: May 23, 2018, 08:24:05 PM »
Would anyone else like to see the Prophet 6 voice cards reused in an expanded analog synth with 10 voices?  I would.  These are my ideas.

- reuse the Prophet 6 voice cards, retain the Prophet 6 sound, have 10 voices, split or layered
- retain virtually all features of the Prophet 6, but enhance them
- add a third or fourth digital osc (maybe from the P12) for more complex or alternative wave shapes (and a way to still use analog VCO2 for LFO poly mod and still have robust sounds)
- create a more advanced poly mod section with more control over sources, destinations and amount of modulation
- have four LFOs
- add a third envelope
- add a real 8 slot modulation matrix
- add a display for menu diving and patch display/editing, one knob per function is not realistic, one knob per core functions is
- have a 5-octave keyboard
- maybe create an OB-10 variant of this same expanded analog (slightly digital) monster concept

I'm looking for a response to the Modal 008, which I tried to like in demos, but find it just sounds weird to me.  The Prophet 6 never sounds weird, just great, but I'd like more to design sounds with.
Moog Voyager, Novation Peak, Waldorf Microwave XT, Nord Wave, Emu Audity 2000, Yamaha SY85 & TG500, Waldorf Pulse+, Yamaha FS1R, Sequential Pro One, Korg Wavestation A/D, Roland Juno-60, Yamaha CS-15, MFB Tanzbar, Crumar Bit-99, Emu Emax I, Casio FZ-20M, 12U of Eurorack.

LoboLives

Re: 10 voice Prophet 6?
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2018, 03:12:56 AM »
Nah. If anything I'd rather take two P6 modules place them side by side and have a dual keyboard ala the Prophet 10. No menu and you have two separate synth engines all at your finger tips at all times.

The only thing I'd update is the sequencer with the ability to have it transpose on the fly without having to hold the record button down.

Re: 10 voice Prophet 6?
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2018, 10:54:35 AM »
There's some sense in a six-voice instrument having only a four-octave keyboard.  But a ten-voice?  That would invite crowding of voices, resulting in muddy arrangements.  The Prophet-6 makes sense to me as it is.  If the voice count were increased, I would prefer that an octave be added to the manual as well.
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LoboLives

Re: 10 voice Prophet 6?
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2018, 10:59:44 AM »
There's some sense in a six-voice instrument having only a four-octave keyboard.  But a ten-voice?  That would invite crowding of voices, resulting in muddy arrangements.  The Prophet-6 makes sense to me as it is.  If the voice count were increased, I would prefer that an octave be added to the manual as well.

or top manual 4 octaves, bottom manual 5.

Re: 10 voice Prophet 6?
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2018, 03:14:01 PM »
Then what about the other stuff with 6 voices?  I'd like more modulation options.
Moog Voyager, Novation Peak, Waldorf Microwave XT, Nord Wave, Emu Audity 2000, Yamaha SY85 & TG500, Waldorf Pulse+, Yamaha FS1R, Sequential Pro One, Korg Wavestation A/D, Roland Juno-60, Yamaha CS-15, MFB Tanzbar, Crumar Bit-99, Emu Emax I, Casio FZ-20M, 12U of Eurorack.

LoboLives

Re: 10 voice Prophet 6?
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2018, 04:23:41 PM »
Then what about the other stuff with 6 voices?  I'd like more modulation options.

Then you get a REV2 or P12. The thing with the P6 and OB6 is they are back to the basics of original poly synths. No menus, very basic features and modulation options and those limitations force you to become more creative because you have to work around them. The P6 is a throwback to the P5 which had even less features...same with the OB6 being similar to the OBX. Sometimes less is more. Personally speaking I would have much rather had no menu on the REV2. Ironic because my first choice for my first DSI synth was the P08 because I felt I needed to have a menu...but I eventually went with the Prophet 6 and it’s become my favourite synth ever..even to the point now I groan when I see a menu on board an analog synth. Digital or sample based synth? Sure...but I feel the point of analog synthesis is to get away from any type of menu...regardless of how shallow said menu is.

Re: 10 voice Prophet 6?
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2018, 05:19:40 PM »
I think adding a second LFO to the Prophet-6 would have made a huge improvement, while still maintaining its simple classic design.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
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The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

LoboLives

Re: 10 voice Prophet 6?
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2018, 05:37:01 PM »
I think adding a second LFO to the Prophet-6 would have made a huge improvement, while still maintaining its simple classic design.

Yeah but if you get two modules then you can have two LFOs ;)

Re: 10 voice Prophet 6?
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2018, 06:51:34 PM »
Meaning, one LFO per unit.  That wouldn't improve things, but only multiply the weakness.  The only other option is to sacrifice an audio oscillator for modulation, but then you're down to one sound source per unit.  I tried to resolve this in my mind a couple of years ago, because I really wanted to try the Prophet-6, but it just wouldn't work out.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 06:54:47 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

LoboLives

Re: 10 voice Prophet 6?
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2018, 08:56:38 PM »
Meaning, one LFO per unit.  That wouldn't improve things, but only multiply the weakness.  The only other option is to sacrifice an audio oscillator for modulation, but then you're down to one sound source per unit.  I tried to resolve this in my mind a couple of years ago, because I really wanted to try the Prophet-6, but it just wouldn't work out.

The only limitation is in you mind. Sometimes less is more. What you call a weakness I call creative influence.

Re: 10 voice Prophet 6?
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2018, 10:16:48 PM »
Within reason - yes, I'd agree with you.  Limitation can be an advantage, in a sense, by a creative mind.  But some limitation is just too much.  At a certain point, the instrument then dictates to the composer, and the latter becomes its servant, rather than the other way around.  I don't use an instrument in order to prove what a great instrument it is.  The goal is always music, not demonstration.  I mean, if the Prophet-6 had no LFO, for example, wouldn't you say, "Enough is enough?" 
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

Re: 10 voice Prophet 6?
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2018, 06:19:38 AM »
I do appreciate the simple sounds of the Prophet 6, but I would appreciate even more the ability to take those sounds even further.  I think this is the best sounding DSI synth, ever, it reeks luxury.  Why not take that basic luxurious sound and expand it further?  Four LFOs, hell yes.  One additional digital osc to add another layer of complexity, hell yes.  A digital osc because it's a different color, and (probably) cheaper to implement, and all the analog stuff we need is already on the existing voice cards.  I find that the effects are used too much to create sounds with size and weight, I'd rather have another osc doing most of that, the effects sound be icing, not a part of the synthesis, for me, at least.  I could see two additional digital oscillators being overkill, you don't want to lose the underlying analog sound.  A real modulation matrix allowing whatever to modulate whatever, hell yes, why would you not want to take that beautiful analog sound to the next level?  If you don't want to, then don't, use a Prophet 6, if you feel you want more, than another synth option with this beautiful sound taken further would be pretty f***in' cool.
Moog Voyager, Novation Peak, Waldorf Microwave XT, Nord Wave, Emu Audity 2000, Yamaha SY85 & TG500, Waldorf Pulse+, Yamaha FS1R, Sequential Pro One, Korg Wavestation A/D, Roland Juno-60, Yamaha CS-15, MFB Tanzbar, Crumar Bit-99, Emu Emax I, Casio FZ-20M, 12U of Eurorack.

LoboLives

Re: 10 voice Prophet 6?
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2018, 09:08:24 AM »
I do appreciate the simple sounds of the Prophet 6, but I would appreciate even more the ability to take those sounds even further.  I think this is the best sounding DSI synth, ever, it reeks luxury.  Why not take that basic luxurious sound and expand it further?  Four LFOs, hell yes.  One additional digital osc to add another layer of complexity, hell yes.  A digital osc because it's a different color, and (probably) cheaper to implement, and all the analog stuff we need is already on the existing voice cards.  I find that the effects are used too much to create sounds with size and weight, I'd rather have another osc doing most of that, the effects sound be icing, not a part of the synthesis, for me, at least.  I could see two additional digital oscillators being overkill, you don't want to lose the underlying analog sound.  A real modulation matrix allowing whatever to modulate whatever, hell yes, why would you not want to take that beautiful analog sound to the next level?  If you don't want to, then don't, use a Prophet 6, if you feel you want more, than another synth option with this beautiful sound taken further would be pretty f***in' cool.

Then it wouldn’t be a Prophet 6. It would be a Poly Evolver.

Re: 10 voice Prophet 6?
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2018, 03:45:08 PM »
I've always found the Prophet '08 to be quite limited.  To have even less would be to push the virtue of limitation to an absurd degree, to the point where the limitations were actually interfering with the musical ideas.  Personally, music trumps technology.  Again, I don't compose music so that I can use synthesizers; I use synthesizers so that I can compose music.  To use instruments that limit musical expression is to turn the whole artistic program upside-down.  One might as well try to build a house without nails.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 05:07:08 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

LoboLives

Re: 10 voice Prophet 6?
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2018, 11:42:49 PM »
Hmmm  you know I sort of still have a desire for a dual manual Prophet 6 now...I wonder if DSI would help at all in supplying things like the Sequential name plate and others for such a project.

Re: 10 voice Prophet 6?
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2018, 06:17:59 AM »
Would anyone else like to see the Prophet 6 voice cards reused in an expanded analog synth with 10 voices?

In a word, YES. And call it a Prophet-10. No, oops, they used that already, twice. Maybe call it the Prophet 10X, X being for Roman numeral "10" or for eXtra or eXcellent. Or just call it the Prophet-X!

Oh dear, Dave's used Prophet-X for something completely different now! Looks like a 10 voice Prophet-6 cannot ever exist because there is no name available for it.

Even a Prophet-6 with 5 octaves would be nice. You know, there's something particularly charming about note stealing and/or limited number of voices. Much more charming then limited number of Octaves, Dave, eh? Eh?

First of all, each voice is more important. Second of all, when you are playing arpeggios, etc, you can get a wonderful background from the past 6 notes played. You get a kind of chord drone that is much nicer than those horrible piano/strings combos on ROMplers that sound so cheesy and clichéd. I particularly like using the effect of fading of previous notes when I use the arpeggiator. It's much more fun than with a monosynth. If you had 10 or more notes, it would be a wash of unwanted notes. More polyphony sometimes gets in the way.

You can put longer release times on when there is limited polyphony and get more "sustain" and avoid using those annoying sustain pedals that I would never use. There is a lot of charm from 6 voices I have found.

For a mono-timbral analog polysynth, maybe it should be illegal to have more than 8 voices!
Prophet-6 nut. Formerly, just a Prophet-5 nut.

Re: 10 voice Prophet 6?
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2018, 06:27:06 AM »
Acftually therre is one idea. Have a Prophet T10 or T12, get a real super high quality keyboarrd, maybe 6 octaves - or 76 keys like the old Prophet-T8 (not one of those horrible E to G things but an A to C or a C to C one that looks like a real piano or still like a synth) and hook it up to a bi timbral synth with at least 2 LFOs for each sound and a few more mod options, well, a lot more modulation options. And go for polyphonic aftertouch, real, proper aftertouch.

I never use the more basic, channel aftertouch on the P6, I find it too "switchy" rather than smooth. Same for the velocity to amplifier envelope amount, I find that a bit severe too. I like velocity to filter envelope amount much better personally, brightens the sound and makes it a bit louder - and for me that sounds great.

The wonderful sound of the Prophet-6 warrants putting its sound generators inside a big machine, no need to change anything in the actual sound at all. Of course, you could say the same for the OB6. Probably hardly anyone would buy them, that's the problem.

Does anyone know how many P6s and OB6s have been made?

Would anyone else like to see the Prophet 6 voice cards reused in an expanded analog synth with 10 voices?  I would.  These are my ideas.
Prophet-6 nut. Formerly, just a Prophet-5 nut.

Re: 10 voice Prophet 6?
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2018, 10:52:08 AM »
I actually ended up buying a REV2, which I like, more, now that I have minor "corrective EQ" permanently attached to it to make it warmer sounding.  I think my need for a bigger and enhanced Prophet 6 just got severely diminished.  I've also found pre-amp transformers to be an interesting way to make it sound more like I'd like it to sound.  And I get all the modulation, layering and effects I could want.  The REV2 just comes out of the box with an interesting EQ profile, which can be easily adjusted.
Moog Voyager, Novation Peak, Waldorf Microwave XT, Nord Wave, Emu Audity 2000, Yamaha SY85 & TG500, Waldorf Pulse+, Yamaha FS1R, Sequential Pro One, Korg Wavestation A/D, Roland Juno-60, Yamaha CS-15, MFB Tanzbar, Crumar Bit-99, Emu Emax I, Casio FZ-20M, 12U of Eurorack.

Re: 10 voice Prophet 6?
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2018, 06:25:46 AM »
There's some sense in a six-voice instrument having only a four-octave keyboard.  But a ten-voice?  That would invite crowding of voices, resulting in muddy arrangements.  The Prophet-6 makes sense to me as it is.  If the voice count were increased, I would prefer that an octave be added to the manual as well.

I kind of agree but I really like reaching down to that low bass note without having to try to find a finger to hit the Transpose button. That really is a pain.

However, I think the form factor of the Prophet-6 and OB-6 look "perfect" - the Prophet-6 is like a smaller Prophet-5, same shape but smaller in all 3 dimensions. It looks better in real life than most photos I have seen, darker, more "black" - and the potentiometer controls have a great feel. Seeing one in real life made my decision to get it. It also sounds much better when you program it yourself - I don't go for the on-board presets much - but they can be starting points.

I guess that the electronics in the P6 and OB6 fitted easily into a 4 octave synth so they made it one. Maybe it's that simple. It also allowed them to make the desktop modules really compact. Everything is a compromise.

Most people don't make your point that limited polyphony is actually really great. There's stuff you can do with 6 voices that you can't with 10 or 12. Note stealing can reallty be your friend.
Prophet-6 nut. Formerly, just a Prophet-5 nut.