The Official Sequential/DSI Forum

Prophet X Sounds

Re: Prophet X Sounds
« Reply #60 on: May 04, 2018, 11:07:35 AM »
It sounds like you've either lost interest, or else, you need an instrument that especially inspires you.  Personally, I find that too much stuff really wears me out.  There's nothing like a simple, clean, and minimal set up.  But when everything is hooked up, sometimes I'm annoyed even by having to turn on so many pieces in order to sit down and play. 

Maybe you do need just one magnificent instrument like the Prophet X, and then to leave it at that.

I think really I probably already have it all covered, my one magnificent instrument would be the Kronos/Omnisphere/Keyscape, I also use the MatrixBrute, Nord G2. Minibute 2S/Eurorack, Organelle and Origin. I have started using the MPC Live for knocking things up as well rather than a DAW as I am sick of them.

I think really I could live with those and get rid of everything else, I thought the X looked appealing and it was new but realistically I don't need it at all.

Definitely talked out of it :)


chysn

  • ***
  • 1137
Re: Prophet X Sounds
« Reply #61 on: May 04, 2018, 12:19:09 PM »
If Sacred Synthesis is the guy with the halo sitting on your right shoulder, he can wave across at me on the other end. :)

Ah, Chysn, we've had this exact same disagreement before, and it was even over LoboLives and the Oberheim Two-Voice Pro.  All I'm saying - again - is that a musician should use their money wisely and choose their instrument prudently.  Art need not be a hedonistic plunge into irrational and purely subjective behavior, nor is it made any better by it.  It is only helped by the intellect and judicious, rather than impulsive, decisions.  That's my personal advice - take it or leave it.

Woah... yeah, you're right. Hopefully my counsel can be more nuanced than "Don't Think! Buy!" I myself am an avid researcher. I myself, having four kids, must be wise with my synth money*. But I've found that, for me, paralysis can set in if I don't give myself permission to find an alternate decision criterion beyond hard facts. Hedonism is more like a tie-breaker.

* I recognize how ridiculously dripping with first-world privilege this sentence is. Let's let that go for now.

Quote
My understanding of this instrument is that it will have samples, not only of traditional instruments like piano and strings, not only the usual sound effects, but also samples of other classic synthesizers, including the Prophet 5.  How expansive will this be?  How many other synthesizers will be included?  A few, or many?  It's a shocking concept, and I'm not even sure if I like it.

150GB is a huge chunk of memory. If I didn't screw up the math, it's well over 150 hours of 24-bit stereo 44.1K linear PCM wave data. I'm sure there's plenty of multi-sampling and probably velocity-switched sampling, but it should still be one hell of a library, covering a lot of ground. I can't imagine that it comes totally full. I don't know.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 12:21:36 PM by chysn »
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Re: Prophet X Sounds
« Reply #62 on: May 05, 2018, 10:53:42 PM »
If Sacred Synthesis is the guy with the halo sitting on your right shoulder, he can wave across at me on the other end. :)

Ah, Chysn, we've had this exact same disagreement before, and it was even over LoboLives and the Oberheim Two-Voice Pro.  All I'm saying - again - is that a musician should use their money wisely and choose their instrument prudently.  Art need not be a hedonistic plunge into irrational and purely subjective behavior, nor is it made any better by it.  It is only helped by the intellect and judicious, rather than impulsive, decisions.  That's my personal advice - take it or leave it.

Woah... yeah, you're right. Hopefully my counsel can be more nuanced than "Don't Think! Buy!" I myself am an avid researcher. I myself, having four kids, must be wise with my synth money*. But I've found that, for me, paralysis can set in if I don't give myself permission to find an alternate decision criterion beyond hard facts. Hedonism is more like a tie-breaker.

* I recognize how ridiculously dripping with first-world privilege this sentence is. Let's let that go for now.

Quote
My understanding of this instrument is that it will have samples, not only of traditional instruments like piano and strings, not only the usual sound effects, but also samples of other classic synthesizers, including the Prophet 5.  How expansive will this be?  How many other synthesizers will be included?  A few, or many?  It's a shocking concept, and I'm not even sure if I like it.

150GB is a huge chunk of memory. If I didn't screw up the math, it's well over 150 hours of 24-bit stereo 44.1K linear PCM wave data. I'm sure there's plenty of multi-sampling and probably velocity-switched sampling, but it should still be one hell of a library, covering a lot of ground. I can't imagine that it comes totally full. I don't know.

Itíll be 150GB Of already loaded samples and 50GB of blank space for user samples.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

Re: Prophet X Sounds
« Reply #63 on: May 05, 2018, 11:05:42 PM »
I do have to say though the presets and demos have really been poor to my ears. Not in terms of sound quality but it seems like there is a lot of focus on noisy sounds, turning the samples into something unrecognizable and a lot of focus on the synth engine as well. I donít think itís really doing a service to the Prophet X. Maybe itís better to let the quality of the samples speak and do slight manipulations to them. A Steinway layered with a VS or FM piano, a sampled choir being modulated slowly with an LFO, a sampled string section layered with a squarewave string pad through a rotary speaker effect.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

dslsynth

  • ***
  • 1036
Re: Prophet X Sounds
« Reply #64 on: May 07, 2018, 01:01:20 AM »
The thing is I haven't turned on the PEK for over a year, it isn't even wired up. The P12 (and P2) haven't been used since I messed up the motherboards, I have not even put the replaced motherboards back in yet. This is also over a year.

I see your point. But please consider taking your time as getting a new PEK are going to be an expensive exercise. Well researched gear reconfigurations are simply the best way to proceed even if having plenty of money.
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

dsetto

  • ***
  • 382
Re: Prophet X Sounds
« Reply #65 on: May 07, 2018, 02:38:23 AM »
I'm enjoying this thread's familiar side trip. ... After quickly grasping what the new instrument is, I'm in the next phase where I am:
- reminding myself of my primary goals, and that I've got what I need to support it. And for me, an instrument exchange not only doesn't add, but it will detract from my consciously stated goals.
- As I am grossly enthralled by what I learned of the new instrument, I will look to pursue some of those process & net-result paths with my current instrument set.
- With caution, I may enjoy reading & discussing the implications of this wonderful new instrument.

I'll admit it's kind of hard. Just today, I tried to explore some of the sample playing-manipulation of my sample player. It's hard getting a taste of what I know the X can do, and that I can't do it with my traditional sample player. That said- I got such amazing results which happened to build off an abandoned project that was, perhaps ironically, propelled by a deep want for a polyphonic analog. My particular sample player is like a big, big, big, big city. Whereas the DSI boards are like a nice sized walkable, vibrant small city.

Managing restraint appropriately  can surely be challenging.

Re: Prophet X Sounds
« Reply #66 on: May 07, 2018, 05:32:00 AM »
Honestly the more I hear these presets demonstrated the more I want to cry. Why are so many of them not allowing the samples to breath? There seems to be a lot of focus on decimating or bit crushing the samples to the point of noisy industrial type sounds and there seems to be a lot of focus on the synth engine as well. I feel like the demos and presets really have done a disservice to showcasing what this thing can do. I understand in most cases presets are awful but these are just downright ugly sounding. Ugh, I wish DSI contacted me about doing some patches for the thing.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

dsetto

  • ***
  • 382
Re: Prophet X Sounds
« Reply #67 on: May 07, 2018, 08:45:08 AM »
Probably to effectively demonstrate its capability, which is different from style. And to communicate its intention from top-to-bottom.

Focus on its makeup. Based on what you have, imagine what you can do with it. What's interesting about this instance is it requires experience with synthesis and manipulating samples to have a tangible sense for imagining its capabilities.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 08:48:56 AM by dsetto »

Re: Prophet X Sounds
« Reply #68 on: May 07, 2018, 09:50:18 AM »
Probably to effectively demonstrate its capability, which is different from style. And to communicate its intention from top-to-bottom.

Focus on its makeup. Based on what you have, imagine what you can do with it. What's interesting about this instance is it requires experience with synthesis and manipulating samples to have a tangible sense for imagining its capabilities.

Oh I understand what they are trying to showcase but it just seems like the majority of presets I hear and the majority of sounds demonstrated just sounds like aliens in a bathroom. Itís cool and all but it doesnít showcase the synth well at all and frankly I think a lot of the negative reactions on YouTube videos for this thing are due to people being subjected to extreme modulation capabilities rather than anything of style like you said.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

Re: Prophet X Sounds
« Reply #69 on: May 08, 2018, 04:42:42 AM »
Honestly the more I hear these presets demonstrated the more I want to cry. Why are so many of them not allowing the samples to breath? There seems to be a lot of focus on decimating or bit crushing the samples to the point of noisy industrial type sounds and there seems to be a lot of focus on the synth engine as well. I feel like the demos and presets really have done a disservice to showcasing what this thing can do. I understand in most cases presets are awful but these are just downright ugly sounding. Ugh, I wish DSI contacted me about doing some patches for the thing.

I think that's a pretty harsh assessment, which I don't even mean in a defensive sense due to having been involved in the process. I do get that you'd prefer to listen to some sample-only content that's only slightly processed at best, be it out of curiosity, be it due to personal preferences. And that is absolutely fine. But also consider that it's almost impossible to please everyone with presets. There are currently 3 goups of people: One would like to hear what you want, another one wants exactly the opposite (only oscillator-based sounds without any samples), yet another one wants only hardcore-mangled sounds because they think everything they've heard so far is not experimental or granular enough or too tame. Taking that into account, I'd say that the current presets provide a rather good compromise to hold these different interests together.

And there are also always mandatory rules for sound design, which pretty much write themselves based on an instrument's features: For potential customers all controllers like AT, mod wheel, and touch sliders obviously have to have an effect, most of the effects need to be showcased in some shape or form, particularly new ones if there are any (which of course doesn't mean pushing it to 11 all the time), the sequencer needs to play something if there is any, and the general philosophy behind the instrument has to be communicated, i.e. in this case that this is a synth and a sample playback instrument with sample manipulation options. Those are just self-evident preconditions that need to be catered to for any existing synth out there before you even start to think about a particular sound. Presets are not only supposed to sound cool (strictly subjective of course), but also carry the function of showcasing an instrument and all or most of its possibilities. You should also consider thatóas usualóit'll be up to you to eventually create the stuff you like with this instrument.

And on a personal note: There are at least 3 presets in my playlist that pretty much fit your desription above. One is a rather pure Rhodes sound with only additional effects that are dialed in via the touch sliders and mod wheel (phaser, delay, and tremolo), "Fashion Magazine" also only makes use of non-mangled samples, same as the tongue-in-cheek "Chill, Dude!", and even the last track uses mostly EMS-based synth samples, where only a sine wave takes over the role of a supporting sub oscillator. Whether those examples fit your personal style is another story, but there are quite a few sounds from everyone that only make sparse use of the oscillators, or use them in a rather supportive manner and not as the main tone generators. The problem may be that you cannot always hear that, or that you can only know this if you actually see how the according sounds have been made.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 04:49:36 AM by Paul Dither »

Re: Prophet X Sounds
« Reply #70 on: May 08, 2018, 09:46:41 AM »
Honestly the more I hear these presets demonstrated the more I want to cry. Why are so many of them not allowing the samples to breath? There seems to be a lot of focus on decimating or bit crushing the samples to the point of noisy industrial type sounds and there seems to be a lot of focus on the synth engine as well. I feel like the demos and presets really have done a disservice to showcasing what this thing can do. I understand in most cases presets are awful but these are just downright ugly sounding. Ugh, I wish DSI contacted me about doing some patches for the thing.

I think that's a pretty harsh assessment, which I don't even mean in a defensive sense due to having been involved in the process. I do get that you'd prefer to listen to some sample-only content that's only slightly processed at best, be it out of curiosity, be it due to personal preferences. And that is absolutely fine. But also consider that it's almost impossible to please everyone with presets. There are currently 3 goups of people: One would like to hear what you want, another one wants exactly the opposite (only oscillator-based sounds without any samples), yet another one wants only hardcore-mangled sounds because they think everything they've heard so far is not experimental or granular enough or too tame. Taking that into account, I'd say that the current presets provide a rather good compromise to hold these different interests together.

And there are also always mandatory rules for sound design, which pretty much write themselves based on an instrument's features: For potential customers all controllers like AT, mod wheel, and touch sliders obviously have to have an effect, most of the effects need to be showcased in some shape or form, particularly new ones if there are any (which of course doesn't mean pushing it to 11 all the time), the sequencer needs to play something if there is any, and the general philosophy behind the instrument has to be communicated, i.e. in this case that this is a synth and a sample playback instrument with sample manipulation options. Those are just self-evident preconditions that need to be catered to for any existing synth out there before you even start to think about a particular sound. Presets are not only supposed to sound cool (strictly subjective of course), but also carry the function of showcasing an instrument and all or most of its possibilities. You should also consider thatóas usualóit'll be up to you to eventually create the stuff you like with this instrument.

And on a personal note: There are at least 3 presets in my playlist that pretty much fit your desription above. One is a rather pure Rhodes sound with only additional effects that are dialed in via the touch sliders and mod wheel (phaser, delay, and tremolo), "Fashion Magazine" also only makes use of non-mangled samples, same as the tongue-in-cheek "Chill, Dude!", and even the last track uses mostly EMS-based synth samples, where only a sine wave takes over the role of a supporting sub oscillator. Whether those examples fit your personal style is another story, but there are quite a few sounds from everyone that only make sparse use of the oscillators, or use them in a rather supportive manner and not as the main tone generators. The problem may be that you cannot always hear that, or that you can only know this if you actually see how the according sounds have been made.

I do agree that presets are completely subjective but the REV 2 had some really nice presets...probably the best factory presets I've heard in a long time overall.

My opinion wasn't meant as a slight to the sound designers so I'm glad you didn't take it that way I just keep seeing comments like "I don't get it?" or "$4k for these sounds?". I get that it's all subjective but 8Dio has some breathtaking high quality sounds and from what I've heard on on most of the demo sounds or even from most of the demonstrations from Superbooth...that they are almost an afterthought. I just don't think it represents the synth well, that's all. The Superbooth videos played the same Steinway sample, sample choir sample and same bass sample and same multisampled industrial percussion sample over and over. Then bringing in a basic Init Patch Sawtooth Oscillator just buzzing under it. For me I would have demonstrated the bread and butter sampled sounds first and then show how they can be manipulated. If you start with all it's modulation and manipulation capabilities first people have no idea what they are hearing or what's special about it.

Like you said, once I get the synth I can program it for my personal taste and that's fine I'm just saying that I personally think it's a poor move to have these type of sounds represent the synth. Especially having poor Gerry demonstrate them and admittedly not being prepared or as familiar with the synth as he should have been. 
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 09:51:02 AM by LoboLives »
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

Re: Prophet X Sounds
« Reply #71 on: May 09, 2018, 03:38:49 AM »
I do agree that presets are completely subjective but the REV 2 had some really nice presets...probably the best factory presets I've heard in a long time overall.

My opinion wasn't meant as a slight to the sound designers so I'm glad you didn't take it that way I just keep seeing comments like "I don't get it?" or "$4k for these sounds?". I get that it's all subjective but 8Dio has some breathtaking high quality sounds and from what I've heard on on most of the demo sounds or even from most of the demonstrations from Superbooth...that they are almost an afterthought. I just don't think it represents the synth well, that's all. The Superbooth videos played the same Steinway sample, sample choir sample and same bass sample and same multisampled industrial percussion sample over and over. Then bringing in a basic Init Patch Sawtooth Oscillator just buzzing under it. For me I would have demonstrated the bread and butter sampled sounds first and then show how they can be manipulated. If you start with all it's modulation and manipulation capabilities first people have no idea what they are hearing or what's special about it.

Like you said, once I get the synth I can program it for my personal taste and that's fine I'm just saying that I personally think it's a poor move to have these type of sounds represent the synth. Especially having poor Gerry demonstrate them and admittedly not being prepared or as familiar with the synth as he should have been.

Did you watch any of 8DIO's Prophet X YouTube videos? They might be more to your liking, as they focus more on the samples alone.

Re: Prophet X Sounds
« Reply #72 on: May 09, 2018, 02:00:38 PM »
I do agree that presets are completely subjective but the REV 2 had some really nice presets...probably the best factory presets I've heard in a long time overall.

My opinion wasn't meant as a slight to the sound designers so I'm glad you didn't take it that way I just keep seeing comments like "I don't get it?" or "$4k for these sounds?". I get that it's all subjective but 8Dio has some breathtaking high quality sounds and from what I've heard on on most of the demo sounds or even from most of the demonstrations from Superbooth...that they are almost an afterthought. I just don't think it represents the synth well, that's all. The Superbooth videos played the same Steinway sample, sample choir sample and same bass sample and same multisampled industrial percussion sample over and over. Then bringing in a basic Init Patch Sawtooth Oscillator just buzzing under it. For me I would have demonstrated the bread and butter sampled sounds first and then show how they can be manipulated. If you start with all it's modulation and manipulation capabilities first people have no idea what they are hearing or what's special about it.

Like you said, once I get the synth I can program it for my personal taste and that's fine I'm just saying that I personally think it's a poor move to have these type of sounds represent the synth. Especially having poor Gerry demonstrate them and admittedly not being prepared or as familiar with the synth as he should have been.

Did you watch any of 8DIO's Prophet X YouTube videos? They might be more to your liking, as they focus more on the samples alone.

Funny enough I commented on them with my suggestion and they responded that they will do a series of videos demonstrating more natural and acoustic samples and then slowly show what you can turn them into. :)
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

jg666

  • ***
  • 359
Re: Prophet X Sounds
« Reply #73 on: May 11, 2018, 08:03:39 AM »
OK I'm probably going to show myself up here with this :) What's the big excitement about this synth? To me the stuff I've heard is all possible on a synth such as the Yamaha Montage..... I assume I'm missing something massive though!
DSI Prophet Rev2, DSI Pro 2, Moog Sub37, Korg Minilogue, Yamaha MOXF6, Yamaha MODX6, Yamaha Montage6

chysn

  • ***
  • 1137
Re: Prophet X Sounds
« Reply #74 on: May 11, 2018, 12:59:27 PM »
OK I'm probably going to show myself up here with this :) What's the big excitement about this synth? To me the stuff I've heard is all possible on a synth such as the Yamaha Montage..... I assume I'm missing something massive though!

I'm sure they can do a lot of the same kinds of things, being sample-based instruments with synth engines. And they aren't radically far-apart in price. The Prophet X seems to have a pretty big interface advantage (way knobbier), 30x more user memory, and the analog filters. But yeah, you're probably not going to see that many people selling off a Montage to buy a Prophet X.
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Sleep of Reason

Re: Prophet X Sounds
« Reply #75 on: May 11, 2018, 02:22:14 PM »
The Prophet X seems to have a pretty big interface advantage (way knobbier), 30x more user memory, and the analog filters.

To be fair, the PX has its advantage in directness (& analog filter) as you pointed out, but certain not in overall ability. Plus the larger user memory only really matters because a "deeper" sample library is more important to the machine. Ultimately they have their own appeal.

Re: Prophet X Sounds
« Reply #76 on: May 11, 2018, 07:01:37 PM »
Hi!  I've been active elsewhere but not here on the official forums since I haven't previously been a DSI owner.  That changes with this instrument, which has spoken to me since the first teaser. I pre-ordered the day of the formal announcement and I'm very much looking forward to its arrival.

To be fair, the PX has its advantage in directness (& analog filter) as you pointed out, but certain not in overall ability. Plus the larger user memory only really matters because a "deeper" sample library is more important to the machine. Ultimately they have their own appeal.

Why would round-robin alternates matter more for drum hits on one instrument versus another?  Or tonal variants based on microphone position?  Or more velocity layers?  The 150GB of factory samples should prove to be a phenomenal strength in providing a wide range of raw material.

"Overall ability" is fairly meaningless.  The ability of a hex editor to produce digital music of every kind imaginable is unbeatable, but it's still not a great musical instrument.  An instruments speaks to you and sparks your creativity, or it doesn't.  It gets in your way or it acts as an effective extension of your will.  The answers to both questions are going to be highly personal.  If the Montage appeals to you that's great.  Personally, I found it worked well out of the box and had some nice affordances for tweaking presets but it didn't appeal to me for ground-up sound design.

I'll freely admit I didn't spend a ton of time with it because the editing model didn't gel for me, but without analog filters or audio-rate modulation I find it hard to believe that the synthesis capabilities would be remotely similar to the Prophet X.  What I can't speak to is what matters most to you.  I'm expecting the Prophet X to a perfect complement to my Kurzweil Forte.

Sleep of Reason

Re: Prophet X Sounds
« Reply #77 on: May 11, 2018, 10:35:04 PM »
Ability (as enumerated below for those interested) is not subjective, it's simply the fair counter "advantage" to what chysn mentioned.

The Montage has two main synth engines. One is a subtractive synth engine that uses samples as oscillators and the other engine is a FM synth and both can be mixed together. Each engine has a 128 polyphony count. For each performance you can have 64 oscillators or operators. You can for example choose from the 18 filter types and have a different one for each oscillator. Each oscillator can have their own independent amp envelope, pitch EG, and pan setting. Each oscillator can have their own LFO as well as a more powerful common user editable LFO per scene. Each oscillator can have their own position on the keyboard and/or velocity setting spread throughout the 88 keys (for the M8 in the same price range). Within the performances you can switch or combine eight scenes with completely different settings. Each scene can have two of the 85 effects separately assignable (with much more than two parameters), an EQ, and an overall reverb + EQ. Each scene can have eight arpeggiators and eight motion sequences assignable. You can get all kinds of crazy evolving sounds with the motion control options. There's also direct A/D input and Sample Robot for free coming in the near future. Keep in mind this is my very limited knowledge of the instrument. You could literally go down the FM rabbit-hole and never come back. Of course none of this will matter if like many users on here you're the type that for some reason can't come to terms with the touch screen format. No one was arguing that.

If you watch the interview with Dave (that Paul conducted), he even admits if that's the type of thing that you're looking for then the PX may not be for you. It's more about the accessibility (I.E. direct tweakability via knobs) and instant access to high quality samples, which is exactly why that deeper upfront sample library/memory is more important in that context. All with the option to be put through an analog filter. If you read my post, I said am simply pointing out each has their own corner in the market that will cater to different users because each has their own strengths or rather focal points. Plenty of folks will swear their plug-ins are cheaper and better than both. Luckily you can buy whatever you want/can afford. It's all gravy to me.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 11:51:06 PM by Sleep of Reason »

jg666

  • ***
  • 359
Re: Prophet X Sounds
« Reply #78 on: May 11, 2018, 11:53:33 PM »
Ability (as enumerated below for those interested) is not subjective, it's simply the fair counter "advantage" to what chysn mentioned.

The Montage has two main synth engines. One is a subtractive synth engine that uses samples as oscillators and the other engine is a FM synth and both can be mixed together. Each engine has a 128 polyphony count. For each performance you can have 64 oscillators or operators. You can for example choose from the 18 filter types and have a different one for each oscillator. Each oscillator can have their own independent amp envelope, pitch EG, and pan setting. Each oscillator can have their own LFO as well as a more powerful common user editable LFO per scene. Each oscillator can have their own position on the keyboard and/or velocity setting spread throughout the 88 keys (for the M8 in the same price range). Within the performances you can switch or combine eight scenes with completely different settings. Each scene can have two of the 85 effects separately assignable (with much more than two parameters), an EQ, and an overall reverb + EQ. Each scene can have eight arpeggiators and eight motion sequences assignable. You can get all kinds of crazy evolving sounds with the motion control options. There's also direct A/D input and Sample Robot for free coming in the near future. Keep in mind this is my very limited knowledge of the instrument. You could literally go down the FM rabbit-hole and never come back. Of course none of this will matter if like many users on here you're the type that for some reason can't come to terms with the touch screen format. No one was arguing that.

If you watch the interview with Dave (that Paul conducted), he even admits if that's the type of thing that you're looking for then the PX may not be for you. It's more about the accessibility (I.E. direct tweakability via knobs) and instant access to high quality samples, which is exactly why that deeper upfront sample library is more important in that context. All with the option to be put through an analog filter. If you read my post, I said am simply pointing out each has their own corner in the market that will cater to different users because each has their own strengths or rather focal points. Plenty of folks will swear their plug-ins are cheaper and better than both. Luckily you can buy whatever you want/can afford. It's all gravy to me.

Excellent post :) Hopefully my question above didn't come across as me having a 'downer' on the Prophet X, I was just curious about it vs other synths. I do think that the Prophet X looks superb and if I should get a a few thousand spare it would be a toss-up between it and the Montage. I nearly bought a Montage when they first came out but made the mistake of looking on the Yamaha forums and seeing everybody moaning and complaining non-stop instead of enjoying what they'd got  ;D
DSI Prophet Rev2, DSI Pro 2, Moog Sub37, Korg Minilogue, Yamaha MOXF6, Yamaha MODX6, Yamaha Montage6

Re: Prophet X Sounds
« Reply #79 on: May 12, 2018, 09:47:02 AM »
Hi!  I've been active elsewhere but not here on the official forums since I haven't previously been a DSI owner.  That changes with this instrument, which has spoken to me since the first teaser. I pre-ordered the day of the formal announcement and I'm very much looking forward to its arrival.

To be fair, the PX has its advantage in directness (& analog filter) as you pointed out, but certain not in overall ability. Plus the larger user memory only really matters because a "deeper" sample library is more important to the machine. Ultimately they have their own appeal.

Why would round-robin alternates matter more for drum hits on one instrument versus another?  Or tonal variants based on microphone position?  Or more velocity layers?  The 150GB of factory samples should prove to be a phenomenal strength in providing a wide range of raw material.

"Overall ability" is fairly meaningless.  The ability of a hex editor to produce digital music of every kind imaginable is unbeatable, but it's still not a great musical instrument.  An instruments speaks to you and sparks your creativity, or it doesn't.  It gets in your way or it acts as an effective extension of your will.  The answers to both questions are going to be highly personal.  If the Montage appeals to you that's great.  Personally, I found it worked well out of the box and had some nice affordances for tweaking presets but it didn't appeal to me for ground-up sound design.

I'll freely admit I didn't spend a ton of time with it because the editing model didn't gel for me, but without analog filters or audio-rate modulation I find it hard to believe that the synthesis capabilities would be remotely similar to the Prophet X.  What I can't speak to is what matters most to you.  I'm expecting the Prophet X to a perfect complement to my Kurzweil Forte.

Excellent post. For me Iím trying to shy away from menu diving which is why I lost interest in the Montage and Iím slowly gravitating towards the SP6 than the PC3K in the Kurzweil department. I want to connect with an instrument and I find having to rely on heavy menu diving as opposed to a knob per function layout really prevents me from doing that.

For me the PX is about taking the bread and butter samples and manipulating them with the ease like my Prophet 6.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.