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New Flagship?

New Flagship?
« on: May 01, 2018, 11:54:31 AM »
This is obviously the most expensive instrument DSI has yet produced.  It's hard to say which is the flagship - the P12 or the PX - since the two are so different.  They certainly would make a mighty combination.

Even though the instrument is way out of my current range, I'm happy to see DSI making such large and sophisticated synthesizers.  Maybe some day I'll again catch up, but I simply love to see such magnificent possibilities for better times.  Go, DSI!
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 11:58:50 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
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dslsynth

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Re: New Flagship?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2018, 11:57:13 AM »
Does there have to be only one flagship instrument in a product line?

. o O ( ;) )
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Re: New Flagship?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2018, 12:00:40 PM »
I suppose not, but it tends to be the case.  It makes me ponder the P12's future.  I'd like to see both instruments remain side by side.  The size and power in one set would be incredible.   I'm hoping the P12 stays around for a while.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 12:06:14 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
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dslsynth

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Re: New Flagship?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2018, 12:09:34 PM »
I would be surprised if Prophet-12 is discontinued anytime soon. How about asking DSI as I am sure they will happily answer that question.
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LoboLives

Re: New Flagship?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2018, 12:47:36 PM »
I'm sold. Regardless of cost I'll be placing my order soon as it's available. It's roughly $6k for me.

Re: New Flagship?
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2018, 12:18:32 PM »
The synthesizer side of the Prophet X is certainly inferior to the Prophet 12, so I guess the P12 retains its rank.  I'm glad about that, because I still have my hopes that one day....
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 12:21:03 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

LoboLives

Re: New Flagship?
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2018, 12:54:18 PM »
The synthesizer side of the Prophet X is certainly inferior to the Prophet 12, so I guess the P12 retains its rank.  I'm glad about that, because I still have my hopes that one day....

I actually almost wished they got rid of the whole synth engine in the Prophet X and had two more spots for instruments but be that as it may I'm still stoked.

I actually do firmly believe that the next DSI synth will be a digital synthesis based one. Sort of a P12 or PolyEvolver on Steroids. UltraEvolver or something with 20 voices, two digital oscillators and two analog ones. FM, VS, Wavetables licensed from Waldorf and of course nice and blue and on board effects lol

Or maybe even Paul Dither's concept for the Sequential Waves. In which a software program could be made specifically for it where customers can draw and create custom waveshapes and trade with each other on this forum. You simply just install them with Midi USB. Perhaps sort of a collaboration with John Bowen. I know Bowen and Dave are still close but it would be rather interesting to take some concepts of the Solaris (Rotors, Joystick) and some concepts of the P12 and combine them. Perhaps even have a better linear FM section with input from John Chowning.

Regardless though this is a step in the right direction for DSI. I'm a very happy man....and not just because they used the name I thought of but because they took the concept of a DSI sampler and exceeded what I thought they would.

chysn

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Re: New Flagship?
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2018, 06:01:14 PM »
The synthesizer side of the Prophet X is certainly inferior to the Prophet 12, so I guess the P12 retains its rank.  I'm glad about that, because I still have my hopes that one day....

In what ways is the synthesizer side inferior to the Prophet 12?
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LoboLives

Re: New Flagship?
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2018, 06:18:47 PM »
The synthesizer side of the Prophet X is certainly inferior to the Prophet 12, so I guess the P12 retains its rank.  I'm glad about that, because I still have my hopes that one day....

In what ways is the synthesizer side inferior to the Prophet 12?

Itís limited in its oscillators section. Just the standard shapes and super saw. The P12 had a bunch of wave tables as well.

Re: New Flagship?
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2018, 07:48:50 PM »
I believe there's also no 2-pole mode for the low pass filter, no character section, and the (digital) high pass filter seems to be non-resonant.  I imagine the purpose is to keep the two instruments from overlapping eachother too much. 
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 09:14:15 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
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The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

Sleep of Reason

Re: New Flagship?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2018, 08:57:56 PM »
There's also double the digital oscillators on the P12 and more voices in poly mode.

dsetto

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Re: New Flagship?
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2018, 10:02:14 PM »
And the shape mod application of a wavetable in center slot, flanked by wavetable in L &/or R slots.

dsetto

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Re: New Flagship?
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2018, 10:39:42 PM »
At this time, part of my (close-minded) definition for DSI is analog filters. There are plenty of all-digital synths by others. I think DSI has a lot more unexpected terrain to cover without making  "another" all-digital synth. I also think he likes being in his own niche. All-digital starts getting blurry with a computer. I personally would prefer an all-dig synth to a computer. But, I keep being fascinated by DSI's output. And I prefer that.
...
This week's move has proven they are strong & deft. I am no longer worried, as I think this new branch is impressive. And, as this thread is showing, there is wonderful disparity between 12 & X. As there's between the other top tiers. And that's crafty, & intentional.
...
There was an edginess to the Teaser, the use of "sh_t" in the into vid, the black wood ends, and the name. And primarily, quote a bold statement with this release. But, I enjoy the dramatic.
...
Now I'm wondering if X refers to an ingenious solution to a foundational sample manipulation- an automatic crossfade for real-time click-less, start/end/loop adjusting. X for crossfade. (These were other folks' thoughts.)

LoboLives

Re: New Flagship?
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2018, 04:16:09 AM »
At this time, part of my (close-minded) definition for DSI is analog filters. There are plenty of all-digital synths by others. I think DSI has a lot more unexpected terrain to cover without making  "another" all-digital synth. I also think he likes being in his own niche. All-digital starts getting blurry with a computer. I personally would prefer an all-dig synth to a computer. But, I keep being fascinated by DSI's output. And I prefer that.
...
This week's move has proven they are strong & deft. I am no longer worried, as I think this new branch is impressive. And, as this thread is showing, there is wonderful disparity between 12 & X. As there's between the other top tiers. And that's crafty, & intentional.
...
There was an edginess to the Teaser, the use of "sh_t" in the into vid, the black wood ends, and the name. And primarily, quote a bold statement with this release. But, I enjoy the dramatic.
...
Now I'm wondering if X refers to an ingenious solution to a foundational sample manipulation- an automatic crossfade for real-time click-less, start/end/loop adjusting. X for crossfade. (These were other folks' thoughts.)

I'm thinking it means crossing over different types of synthesis or different types of sounds. That was my take away from it.

Personally when I came up with the Prophet X name it was because I watched Godzilla vs Monster Zero the night before and the aliens in the film are from Planet X. I thought....hmmm..Prophet X....yeah...that sounds neat and then thought what a synth with that name would be like.

Sleep of Reason

Re: New Flagship?
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2018, 08:38:39 AM »
more voices in *stereo.

Corrected. :P

Also yet there's two less sources on the P12, there's twelve more destinations. Although a good thing to note is that the samples on the PX can be sources or destinations.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 08:46:11 AM by Sleep of Reason »

dsetto

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Re: New Flagship?
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2018, 09:19:27 PM »
Help me comprehend what a sample as a source and destination can mean.

chysn

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Re: New Flagship?
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2018, 01:27:42 AM »
Help me comprehend what a sample as a source and destination can mean.

As a modulation source, a sample can be audio rate modulation of something else, similar to how an oscillator can be used as a modulation source. See the Prophet 08's Audio Mod (in which audio from an oscillator modulates the filter), or the Prophet 6's Poly Mod section (in which an oscillator can modulate one or more of several things). The cool thing about this sort of modulation is that it tracks the note being played, which lets you have a complex waveform that keeps a similar timbre over a wide range.

As a destination, it's less clear. It could be the ability to change which waveform is in use via modulation, which potentially opens the door to wave sequencing-like effects.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2018, 01:29:20 AM by chysn »
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Razmo

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Re: New Flagship?
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2018, 06:03:46 AM »
There is no need to compare DSI synths really... because DSI purposefully develops their synths so that they do not make the other instruments redundant... Dave has many times said "some users buy them all!" (and with a big smile)... knows what he's doing when he makes the X not match the P12 in synthesis... he want YOU to buy THEM ALL! :D ...

In my point of view, the X is a P12, cut in half and given a walking stick consisting of a very powerful sampling engine... splicing these two things together to form a whole... with some stereo twists from the long dead Evolver signal flow (even if it was probably done mainly to allow for stereo samples to work)... the audio rate modulation of the P12 has also been kept in there... The Prophet X should had been called Prophet B (as in Bastard) ;) .. it's a crossbreed, with one hell of a bell and whistle called "sampling engine" in my opinion... or maybe more it's a sampling engine, with some P12 spliced in...

I'm just waiting for the speccs... the manual... more in depth demos...
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Sleep of Reason

Re: New Flagship?
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2018, 01:05:30 PM »
Help me comprehend what a sample as a source and destination can mean.

As a modulation source, a sample can be audio rate modulation of something else, similar to how an oscillator can be used as a modulation source. See the Prophet 08's Audio Mod (in which audio from an oscillator modulates the filter), or the Prophet 6's Poly Mod section (in which an oscillator can modulate one or more of several things). The cool thing about this sort of modulation is that it tracks the note being played, which lets you have a complex waveform that keeps a similar timbre over a wide range.

As a destination, it's less clear. It could be the ability to change which waveform is in use via modulation, which potentially opens the door to wave sequencing-like effects.

Even though this is in part German, this guy asked the best questions out of interviewers:
https://youtu.be/pbCTWBZSHw4?t=1m54s

How does that work on the P12 because there are a massive amount more waveforms than the three or four shapes on an analog synth? It would be more musical to be able to pick out certain waveforms. Obviously modulations between the two sample instruments per layer will be an option. I was mainly wondering about time stretching modulations.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2018, 01:21:07 PM by Sleep of Reason »

dsetto

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Re: New Flagship?
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2018, 07:24:27 PM »
Help me comprehend what a sample as a source and destination can mean.

As a modulation source, a sample can be audio rate modulation of something else, similar to how an oscillator can be used as a modulation source. See the Prophet 08's Audio Mod (in which audio from an oscillator modulates the filter), or the Prophet 6's Poly Mod section (in which an oscillator can modulate one or more of several things). The cool thing about this sort of modulation is that it tracks the note being played, which lets you have a complex waveform that keeps a similar timbre over a wide range.

As a destination, it's less clear. It could be the ability to change which waveform is in use via modulation, which potentially opens the door to wave sequencing-like effects.

Thank you! I'm gonna have to try this to get it. I've got a Rev2. ... I opened up the gate on my Rev2. Walked a few steps, saved some sounds. A few more steps, saved a sound I really, really like. ... For a long time, I've been starting on that sound, and going simply from there. And that's that. ... I.e., I haven't even gotten in the house of Synthesis.