Prophet X Speculation

Re: Prophet X Speculation
« Reply #180 on: June 05, 2018, 10:33:19 AM »
Is the synth engine effectively the same as the Rev 2 or another DSI synth (under the hood I mean, not in feature set), does anyone know?

On the sheer typical synth engine level (i.e. if you substract everything sample-related including the according mod destinations), the Prophet X comes closest to the Rev2. On top of that, though, the oscillators can frequency modulate each other. And of course the filter is different and works in true stereo. And you get two effects per layer instead of one. Same goes for the auxiliary envelopes: The Prophet X has two while the Rev2 has only one.

Re: Prophet X Speculation
« Reply #181 on: June 05, 2018, 12:48:10 PM »
Thanks.. but don't the P08 and Rev2 have DCOs too?

DCOs are digitally controlled analog oscillators, where the clock source (the external frequency reference) is digital, nothing else. The oscillators of the Prophet 12, Pro 2, and the Prophet X are DSP-based digital oscillators.

OK got it.. I never knew that regarding the P12 and the Pro 2! Thanks :)

Re: Prophet X Speculation
« Reply #182 on: June 05, 2018, 12:49:40 PM »
Is the synth engine effectively the same as the Rev 2 or another DSI synth (under the hood I mean, not in feature set), does anyone know?

On the sheer typical synth engine level (i.e. if you substract everything sample-related including the according mod destinations), the Prophet X comes closest to the Rev2. On top of that, though, the oscillators can frequency modulate each other. And of course the filter is different and works in true stereo. And you get two effects per layer instead of one. Same goes for the auxiliary envelopes: The Prophet X has two while the Rev2 has only one.

Thanks so much.. the more I learn about this thing the more the possibilities seem to unravel!

niagarasynths

Re: Prophet X Speculation
« Reply #183 on: June 06, 2018, 08:34:54 PM »
Ok, now that it's been released/shipped, are we going to see a list of samples from 8DIO?

W07

Re: Prophet X Speculation
« Reply #184 on: June 07, 2018, 10:45:31 AM »
I know it's a bit much to be asking for updates on a product that's only just started shipping :) 
But i noticed the 'random' source in the mod matrix isn't mentioned in the manual.
On the P12 this generated a static random value for every note pressed.
Seems a shame, since it would allow to have a real stereo pan spread when using 16 voice-mode , and it is great for having arpeggiaters that don't sound static and are a bit different every note.
Should be quite easy to implement, since it's already in the P12 and not a super complex algorythm.
Please DSI, a simple thing that i'm sure would give vast improvements!
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 10:47:26 AM by W07 »

Re: Prophet X Speculation
« Reply #185 on: June 07, 2018, 10:53:43 AM »
In lieu of the Random mod source, in the Prophet X we have two independent, general purpose Slop sources. They're super fun and useful!
SEQUENTIAL

Razmo

  • ***
  • 2168
  • I am shadow...
    • Kaleidoscopic Artworks
Re: Prophet X Speculation
« Reply #186 on: June 07, 2018, 01:10:58 PM »
Been looking a bit on the FX section of the PX, and as far as I can see, it's not the same exactly as the other synths of late from DSI... you now have three instead of two parameters per FX which definitely improved on the tweakability... but I noticed that the REV2/OB6 Ringmod FX has been taken away which is a bit of a shame I think... I wonder if the algorithms have changed as well?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 01:13:18 PM by Razmo »
If you need me, follow the shadows...

LoboLives

Re: Prophet X Speculation
« Reply #187 on: June 07, 2018, 11:48:56 PM »
In lieu of the Random mod source, in the Prophet X we have two independent, general purpose Slop sources. They're super fun and useful!

Can the samples have some type of Slop effect on them? To emulate horn clusters, out of tune pianos etc.

Razmo

  • ***
  • 2168
  • I am shadow...
    • Kaleidoscopic Artworks
Re: Prophet X Speculation
« Reply #188 on: June 08, 2018, 10:09:56 AM »
I have a question... reading thru the Prophet X manual's part on loops, I get the understanding that the PX will actually crossfade loops in realtime!? is this correctly understood? ... I asume this is to simplify loop making which of course is cool, but also for doing the granular stuff?
If you need me, follow the shadows...

Bartosz Kwiecinski

  • *
  • 10
  • Synths to make and do.
Re: Prophet X Speculation
« Reply #189 on: June 08, 2018, 11:08:36 AM »
I have a question... reading thru the Prophet X manual's part on loops, I get the understanding that the PX will actually crossfade loops in realtime!? is this correctly understood? ... I asume this is to simplify loop making which of course is cool, but also for doing the granular stuff?

read page 108 :)

W07

Re: Prophet X Speculation
« Reply #190 on: June 09, 2018, 06:36:42 AM »
In lieu of the Random mod source, in the Prophet X we have two independent, general purpose Slop sources. They're super fun and useful!

Yeah, those are a nice idea, but it's not the same as a static offset per note. I wonder how the rate of change is in the slop value, it probably randomly fluctuates a bit in speed as well. Maybe you can get similar results when using high mod values with it, but does it make big jumps with every new note? possibly the size of the jump is determined by the mod value. But i've always seen slop as a parameter that kind of 'oscillates' around a center value.

drxcm

Re: Prophet X Speculation
« Reply #191 on: June 10, 2018, 10:30:09 PM »
Why not use an LFO, random shape, keysync on, slow speed.
This would have the same effect, no?

Razmo

  • ***
  • 2168
  • I am shadow...
    • Kaleidoscopic Artworks
Re: Prophet X Speculation
« Reply #192 on: June 11, 2018, 06:58:55 AM »
Can anyone of you who have had access to a PX tell me, what they think about the new reverb algorithms? I can see in the manual that there seems to be more reverb algorithms than just one (like on the REV2)... Do they sound good? are they good for extremely long and modulated ambient reverbs?

The Reverb in the REV2 is practically useless when it comes to long ambient delays, i can only find a use for it with short room-like ambiences. It comes nowhere near the decay times I need for my style of sounds, neither does it have the modulated smoothness of a good ambient reverb.

I'm not interested in being told I can use external reverbs... I KNOW THAT, and will be using external reverbs, but it would be nice if more manufacturers started to use some resources on developing good reverbs in their synths, because it makes it all more contained within a preset, if you could program reverbs as part of the sound design process.
If you need me, follow the shadows...

Re: Prophet X Speculation
« Reply #193 on: June 11, 2018, 07:45:50 AM »
Can anyone of you who have had access to a PX tell me, what they think about the new reverb algorithms? I can see in the manual that there seems to be more reverb algorithms than just one (like on the REV2)... Do they sound good? are they good for extremely long and modulated ambient reverbs?

The Reverb in the REV2 is practically useless when it comes to long ambient delays, i can only find a use for it with short room-like ambiences. It comes nowhere near the decay times I need for my style of sounds, neither does it have the modulated smoothness of a good ambient reverb.

I'm not interested in being told I can use external reverbs... I KNOW THAT, and will be using external reverbs, but it would be nice if more manufacturers started to use some resources on developing good reverbs in their synths, because it makes it all more contained within a preset, if you could program reverbs as part of the sound design process.

Apart from one more parameter for each effect, there are two new effects: One is a Leslie effect, the other one a new reverb called Super Plate. That would be the one to go to in your case. It's a cool addition for more extreme reverb tails and I had to be careful not to use it on every patch. Modulating the parameters time and early reflection can add some nice glitchiness in a good way.

As for what you wrote about the delays: I still find the on-board delays very useful, particularly since you can modulate the delay time, which can add some harmonic density and movement at subtle settings.

For ambient sounds you should also consider the Rotating Speaker effect. It may not be a typical Ambient effect, but it can add a somewhat 'veiled' and dreamy aspect. Definitely another cool addition and not just for organ sounds.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 07:51:23 AM by Paul Dither »

Razmo

  • ***
  • 2168
  • I am shadow...
    • Kaleidoscopic Artworks
Re: Prophet X Speculation
« Reply #194 on: June 11, 2018, 12:27:05 PM »
Can anyone of you who have had access to a PX tell me, what they think about the new reverb algorithms? I can see in the manual that there seems to be more reverb algorithms than just one (like on the REV2)... Do they sound good? are they good for extremely long and modulated ambient reverbs?

The Reverb in the REV2 is practically useless when it comes to long ambient delays, i can only find a use for it with short room-like ambiences. It comes nowhere near the decay times I need for my style of sounds, neither does it have the modulated smoothness of a good ambient reverb.

I'm not interested in being told I can use external reverbs... I KNOW THAT, and will be using external reverbs, but it would be nice if more manufacturers started to use some resources on developing good reverbs in their synths, because it makes it all more contained within a preset, if you could program reverbs as part of the sound design process.

Apart from one more parameter for each effect, there are two new effects: One is a Leslie effect, the other one a new reverb called Super Plate. That would be the one to go to in your case. It's a cool addition for more extreme reverb tails and I had to be careful not to use it on every patch. Modulating the parameters time and early reflection can add some nice glitchiness in a good way.

As for what you wrote about the delays: I still find the on-board delays very useful, particularly since you can modulate the delay time, which can add some harmonic density and movement at subtle settings.

For ambient sounds you should also consider the Rotating Speaker effect. It may not be a typical Ambient effect, but it can add a somewhat 'veiled' and dreamy aspect. Definitely another cool addition and not just for organ sounds.

Thanks for the info.... though I do not recall that I said anything about the delays? ... The delays are fine... all the FX are, except that I miss a longer/smoother reverb... I'd like to see more sound sculpting/modulating FX for both REV2 and PX actually, more FX that can be used as an extra sound sculpting block... stuff like decimator, ensemble, resonator, bandpass filter and even an FM/Sync effect working like the Ring modulator... these would really benefit especially the REV2 which do not have any digital oscillator tricks to pull off. But I think they would benefit the PX too...
If you need me, follow the shadows...

Sleep of Reason

Re: Prophet X Speculation
« Reply #195 on: June 11, 2018, 12:46:11 PM »
I agree, all the other effects on the REV2 do the trick except for the most important one of all, reverb. I would have traded all the non-delay effects for more/better reverb types. As it stands a separate reverb unit is mandatory for me.

LoboLives

Re: Prophet X Speculation
« Reply #196 on: June 11, 2018, 05:43:04 PM »
I almost always use an external reverb on my gear. The reverb on the P6 is pretty good but generally I'm starting to run them through...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQWIGOXuw_k

Razmo

  • ***
  • 2168
  • I am shadow...
    • Kaleidoscopic Artworks
Re: Prophet X Speculation
« Reply #197 on: June 11, 2018, 11:24:36 PM »
I almost always use an external reverb on my gear. The reverb on the P6 is pretty good but generally I'm starting to run them through...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQWIGOXuw_k

External FX are fine... the problem is that they are separate from the presets on a synth... sometimes I like the idear of just turning on a synth, and then having the reverb fit the chosen preset specifically... as in having been made as part of the preset itself... reverb completely change the atmosphere of any preset sound, in fact many sounds, if you remove it, sounds dull and boring... especially if you make ambient music.

When I need to use an external FX unit, I often end up using the same reverb on every track, simply because I forget to change the reverb parameters... if reverb was an integral part of a preset, every preset with reverb would have a reverb that was tailored to that particular sound... and that is why I wish more manufacturers would spend a little more time perfecting their FX engine algorithms... many usually sound metallic when it comes to reverbs, or thin and brittle.

It sometimes feel like manufacturers are thinking "they can just use external FX if they want better, we don't want to spend more time on this", and that is a shame because on many occasions I've felt that the FX section just sound like it's "broken" really... it seems to be the smaller niche manufacturers though... manufacturers like KORG, Yamaha, Roland etc. have perfected their FX over the years, and reuse them often... but companies like DSI and Waldorf still have mediocre FX in my opinion...
If you need me, follow the shadows...

Re: Prophet X Speculation
« Reply #198 on: June 12, 2018, 07:12:30 AM »
It sometimes feel like manufacturers are thinking "they can just use external FX if they want better, we don't want to spend more time on this"

It's not just the time but the money. A good synth deserves the highest quality reverb you can afford. I turn them off always.

Razmo

  • ***
  • 2168
  • I am shadow...
    • Kaleidoscopic Artworks
Re: Prophet X Speculation
« Reply #199 on: June 12, 2018, 07:45:06 AM »
It sometimes feel like manufacturers are thinking "they can just use external FX if they want better, we don't want to spend more time on this"

It's not just the time but the money. A good synth deserves the highest quality reverb you can afford. I turn them off always.

Reverb is the only one I never use on a synth... modulation FX and delays can almost always find their use, but a grainy metallic reverb is just plain horrible... I think that the only hardware synth where I've switched them off completely (all of them) is the Blofeld... those FX are simply horribly below mediocre.
If you need me, follow the shadows...