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OB6 feature request....Envelope Slop

OB6 feature request....Envelope Slop
« on: March 02, 2018, 04:01:08 PM »
This video shows why an envelope slop is needed to get the classic sounds...bear in mind OB6 sounds this huge in this video with VCO1 and sub turned OFF  on each voice to make this sound(crazy how close it comes to the OBX in spite of these handicaps)....but it's also pretty useless to have to go through these measures to get that sound because it renders the synth useless.   Imagine how it would sound if you have vco 1 + sub plus vco 2 in unison to get these sweeps(with envelope slop)....it would be a dead ringer for that sound!  The filter is spot on as it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuOU9CyWIh0
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 04:09:40 PM by John01W »

Re: OB6 feature request....Envelope Slop
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2018, 09:48:55 PM »
100% agreed.  This would be my #1 feature request.

(Come to think of it, that's my video!)

Re: OB6 feature request....Envelope Slop
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2018, 02:28:59 PM »
100% agreed.  This would be my #1 feature request.

(Come to think of it, that's my video!)

Cool video lol;)  Yes, I think of all the uprade features, this one would get the most mileage and be true to the character of the instrument and would help bring out some more of those classic OB sound characteristics. This one feature, would shore up a LOT.    Again, I hope DSI is toying with this idea.(env filter slop)
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 02:32:34 PM by John01W »

Re: OB6 feature request....Envelope Slop
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2018, 08:43:39 AM »
OMG!!! this would be amazing!!

Would it be possible to do smth like this on the prophet 12 and make it playable?

Re: OB6 feature request....Envelope Slop
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2018, 10:31:39 AM »
What do you mean by "envelope slop"? I only know oscillator slop where you can bring in subtile detunings.
OB6 desktop x2, DSI Rev2 16, Toraiz AS-1, Prophet 12, Pro 2, Vermona 14, Roland System 8, Matrixbrute, Jomox Sunsyn MKII

Re: OB6 feature request....Envelope Slop
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2018, 07:06:57 AM »
What do you mean by "envelope slop"? I only know oscillator slop where you can bring in subtile detunings.

In the old days of analog polysynths before digital modulation (generating LFOs and envelopes) was widely available, the envelopes used to be just as analog as anything else. That also means that for a given setting, they would get out of calibration slightly. The result is that playing a chord would have slightly different envelope timings just like oscillators would have slightly different tuning. The effect is subtle, but it turns out it was a recognizable part of the "feel" of the OB-X, etc, and why many virtual analogs didn't really capture it.
Prophet 12, Modal 002, MFB Dominion 1, Behringer DeepMind 12D, Korg Polysix & EX-8000, Roland JX-8P, Ensoniq SQ-80, Kawai K3m and now an OB-6!

Re: OB6 feature request....Envelope Slop
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2018, 07:34:20 AM »
Wouldnt envelope slop be simulated by just using filter key tracking?

Re: OB6 feature request....Envelope Slop
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2018, 12:36:24 PM »
Wouldnt envelope slop be simulated by just using filter key tracking?

No, On the OB-X the envelope behavior(controlling the filter for example) has slight variations between each of the voices due to the hardware of the time(curtis chip).  This, "inconsistency" gave a lot of character to the OB-X filter sweep sounds.  Watch the video to get an idea. 

It would be kind of like the slop we currently have but for the envelopes


Here's a good video demonstrating exactly what envelope slop does, and where the OB-X got a lot of it's character.:

https://youtu.be/xiV7lzYuM8I?t=3m58s

Re: OB6 feature request....Envelope Slop
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2018, 03:08:00 PM »
What do you mean by "envelope slop"? I only know oscillator slop where you can bring in subtile detunings.

In the old days of analog polysynths before digital modulation (generating LFOs and envelopes) was widely available, the envelopes used to be just as analog as anything else. That also means that for a given setting, they would get out of calibration slightly. The result is that playing a chord would have slightly different envelope timings just like oscillators would have slightly different tuning. The effect is subtle, but it turns out it was a recognizable part of the "feel" of the OB-X, etc, and why many virtual analogs didn't really capture it.

my old Rev 2.0 Prophet-5 had lots of envelope slop. If I set attack to a high value then decay time to 0 and sustain to 0, the note swells and then disappears. Hit a 5 note chord and all the notes swelled and disappeared at times that were unpredictable and very different. One note would still be sounding for seconds after the others had all gone.

What I would do is have an envelope time spread like the Pan Spread and also an Osc 1 to Osc 2 DETUNE spread. I think this is also very important for analogue character. It wouldn't be the saem as slop because the central frequency of the notes could still be in tune but the beats on each voice would be different and that gives wonderful effects.

Actually on my Prophet-6, I find that the voices have different beats anyway to an extent. I heard from a tech guy at DSI that the tolerance is 7 cents on the oscillators and that is actually fairly liberal. So you get those wonderful octave harmonics appearing and disappearing as your saws or pulses beat very slowly,m almost in unison and then drift apart and start to beat faster. i notice that on my P6 the top note can change character when other notes are released (with respect to the beats I can hear in the note).

Prophet-6 nut. Formerly, just a Prophet-5 nut.

Re: OB6 feature request....Envelope Slop
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2018, 05:57:30 AM »
An << Osc 1 to Osc 2 DETUNE spread. I think this is also very important for analogue character. It wouldn't be the saem as slop because the central frequency of the notes could still be in tune but the beats on each voice would be different and that gives wonderful effects. >>

I think a similar feature is now on the Moog One if you are willing to drop $6000-$8000 at their door. ;-)

I like the idea of a DETUNE spread because it would vary the beats with every note and give more thickness to the sound. I'm not sure how the Osc1/Osc2 detune works between Osc 1 and Osc 2 on the P6 pr OB6 (by this, I mean the FINE control knob on Oscillator 2), whether it is proportional or by hertz. I would guess it would be proportional, like so many cents or 100ths of a semitone, so it is scaled up the keyboard. SO beat frequencies would very for each note anyway I guess but a detune spread would make it even more interesting.

I find on my Prophet-6 the tuning is not perfect and I notice one or more voices drifting, even with no slop, usually just enough to make it sound great. Occasionally, I think one voice drifts more than the others and I'm not mad keen on the sound, other times it is tighter but for me my P6 sounds like a VCO synth, which it is, as analog as you're really going to get these days. After doing quite a number of calibrations (about 10-12), it has tightened up a bit but there is still a nice amount of drift. I can even hear the beats of an individual note change sometimes, especially if I release other notes. This sometimes gives you that wonderful octave harmonic that drifts in and out when two oscillators get very close in frequency (with a saw or pulse); let's say when the beats would last 5-10 seconds and are too slow to hear as beats; you get the phasing instead.
Prophet-6 nut. Formerly, just a Prophet-5 nut.