Arturia MatrixBrute

Shaw

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Re: Arturia MatrixBrute
« Reply #100 on: June 27, 2016, 02:57:28 PM »
At least I'm upfront about it.  :)       
And it's not like I'm on the Arturia forum...

You've been upfront about it a couple of times by now. The point is that if you feel obliged to dislike everything Arturia does, then you don't have to participate in a thread about an instrument that is being released by Arturia  - especially after you've alreay made it unequivocally clear that you're not interested in any of their products on principle.

Secondly, yes this is a DSI forum, but this subforum in particular is also called "Other Hardware/Software," which has been created to share information about what other synth manufacturers are developing. None of the threads here are created to impose an instrument on anybody, or to sell other manufacturer's instruments to anyone. This part of the forum exists for purely informational reasons. Plus: most of us tend to own gear from more than just one manufacturer. The fact that we all share a passion for DSI gear doesn't necessarily mean that we're automatically rejecting instruments by other manufacturers.


Apologies.   :)

"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa
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Re: Arturia MatrixBrute
« Reply #101 on: July 11, 2016, 08:55:54 PM »
A filter demo with a P-5 lurking in the background:

dslsynth

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Re: Arturia MatrixBrute
« Reply #102 on: July 12, 2016, 11:30:24 AM »
It certainly sounds great!
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cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: Arturia MatrixBrute
« Reply #103 on: July 26, 2016, 11:49:00 AM »
New one:


Re: Arturia MatrixBrute
« Reply #105 on: August 09, 2016, 10:40:33 PM »
Arghh they need the flash player, this takes me through the normal Adobe nightmare of "Flash is out of date", "Install Flash", "flash cannot be installed on this computer" cycle.

Are they any good?

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Arturia MatrixBrute
« Reply #106 on: August 10, 2016, 07:07:43 AM »
Arghh they need the flash player, this takes me through the normal Adobe nightmare of "Flash is out of date", "Install Flash", "flash cannot be installed on this computer" cycle.

Same here.  And then you get Google Chrome, whether you want it or not.

Re: Arturia MatrixBrute
« Reply #107 on: August 10, 2016, 08:53:44 AM »
Are they any good?

The best I've seen so far. They demonstrate rather traditional sounds - even the more experimental patches do rather resemble "vintage experimental" if that makes sense (think of typical EMS sequences).

Re: Arturia MatrixBrute
« Reply #108 on: August 10, 2016, 10:30:48 AM »
Do the problems still occur with these direct links?
















Re: Arturia MatrixBrute
« Reply #109 on: August 11, 2016, 12:32:43 AM »
Thanks Paul, those seem to be working. Having a look now...

Re: Arturia MatrixBrute
« Reply #110 on: August 11, 2016, 12:55:57 AM »
Sounds pretty nice to me.

Re: Arturia MatrixBrute
« Reply #111 on: September 24, 2016, 08:31:00 PM »
Just wanted to chime in here . Really flattered to see a few of my videos referenced in here (in a positive way even though they are mostly talk and less playing).
Recently had the chance to play with a near production unit at knobcon.
I'll give some of my impressions here. 1) I really wanted a demo with a bunch of modular yet they didn't have it set up like that, at a modular convention!
That being said I was really curious about the final filter design. It wasn't done at namm. But here it was. I recently received a EAR model 41 (a Eurorack 4 pole Steiner filter) that sounds very unique and is really cool. I spoke with the designers of both matrix brute and the model 41 and they each came to a 4 pole Steiner design in totally different methods.
I can say the matrix brute Steiner sounds very nice and at the same time not at all like the model 41. The MB resonance still has that raspy growl and now can also get goey when modulated.  The ladder design no longer has that horrible bass drop out like it did at namm. The two filters really compliment each other.
I was a bit worried about the vco sound as I wasn't sold that the MB oscillators had the low end brunt that something like moog does (dsi tends to not have that grunt either)... fortunately while definitely not moog like, they do have a very nice thick quality to them. Very much VCO and not stiff sounding. I was bouncing between it and the deepmind 12 . Two very very different but equally exciting boards. The MB HAD A unruly attitude about it that I rarely hear in new synths these days.
The matrix is awesome for setting up modulation source and destination. The macros are easy to use. Once you are familiar with the layout it quickly becomes the most hands on synth you could imagine. EVERYTHING has a dedicated control... no menu diving to set  a filter modulation. No matter how obscure .
I'm super excited to get my hands on one at home.i will say they do need more proper demos, the tutorial that they just released is a step in the right direction though.

Re: Arturia MatrixBrute
« Reply #112 on: September 25, 2016, 04:57:01 AM »
Hi Flux! Great to have you on board. And thank you for your Knobcon report on the MatrixBrute.

I agree about the demos. It seems like they needed a bit of a warm-up. The latter ones are definitely more informative and offer a deeper insight.

I don't know, though, whether the MatrixBrute needs to be compared to synths like the Minimoog in the first place. I kind of think of it as a fully analog version of the Pro 2 (vast modulation options, center of one's modular setup, etc.), and a luxury version of those analogs that are no Moogs or Oberheims, but rather cover the ground of everything from the MS-20, some early Yamahas and Rolands, up to the MiniBrute itself (altogether: the more fizzy sounding ones) with a bit of EMS character thrown in due to the particular sound of the analog effect section and that particular matrix.

I always thought that the sine sub oscillator of the MiniBrute is really good for basses though - maybe not in terms of Moog thickness, but definitely in terms of single oscillator precision basses.

Re: Arturia MatrixBrute
« Reply #113 on: September 25, 2016, 05:43:59 PM »
yeah I was talking with my friends earlier today about what matrix brute has as competition or comparison... I brought up the MS20 as well and the pro2... very different but closer than just a voyager . voyager XL gets a bit closer ... the dual filter aspects of the Pro2 really are awesome (so wish that was in my P12) and the CV aspects of the pro2 are such a great selling point. so in these regards the matrix brute gets a bit closer. but the form factors are so different that lets be honest, someone in the market for one certainly might not be in the market for the other. 
so here is a question I posed to my buddies earlier today that I will ask here. Sure there are things that are a bit boutique like the Vermona and the Dominion... but what is the future holding for really ambitious mono synths like the matrix brute? with the Midas Deepmind 12 on the horizon and Korgs large format poly on the way, with certainly more companies to follow (does system 8 not count because its digital? I think it might count considering the reactions at knobcon) .... affordably KNOBY poly is on the rise. will there be a world for such mono synths in the future?
also with the massive influx of poly competition... will this force DSI to really challenge the norm once again to come up with a design really groundbreaking? I see a whole new design style on the horizon.

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Arturia MatrixBrute
« Reply #114 on: September 25, 2016, 08:34:18 PM »
What is the future holding for really ambitious mono synths like the matrix brute? with the Midas Deepmind 12 on the horizon and Korgs large format poly on the way, with certainly more companies to follow (does system 8 not count because its digital? I think it might count considering the reactions at knobcon) .... affordably KNOBY poly is on the rise. will there be a world for such mono synths in the future?
 
Also with the massive influx of poly competition... will this force DSI to really challenge the norm once again to come up with a design really groundbreaking? I see a whole new design style on the horizon.

Good questions.  I think the main mono synth ground is fairly well covered between the new Minimoog Model D and the Pro 2.  Certainly there's still room for something else, but I don't think there's room for much else.  The Matrixbrute seems to fit somewhere in the middle.  But it seems to me that we can't be too far away from the saturation point, especially with analog synthesizers.  How many variations on a theme can be maintained at once?  I wonder about this, even regarding just the DSI range, never mind the synthesizer field as a whole.  I would expect that things would eventually level off, with a few classics standing.  I think the Poly Evolver might go down as one such classic, except that only a rather small number was produced.

Another interesting question would be, Which instruments do we think will eventually arrive at "classic" stature?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 08:40:25 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Arturia MatrixBrute
« Reply #115 on: September 26, 2016, 03:08:30 AM »
yeah I was talking with my friends earlier today about what matrix brute has as competition or comparison... I brought up the MS20 as well and the pro2... very different but closer than just a voyager . voyager XL gets a bit closer ... the dual filter aspects of the Pro2 really are awesome (so wish that was in my P12) and the CV aspects of the pro2 are such a great selling point. so in these regards the matrix brute gets a bit closer. but the form factors are so different that lets be honest, someone in the market for one certainly might not be in the market for the other.

Sure. It basically comes down to what one is aiming for sonically (after all, a Voyager, a Pro 2, and a MatrixBrute all sound different), and whether the analog vs digital debate plays any role.

so here is a question I posed to my buddies earlier today that I will ask here. Sure there are things that are a bit boutique like the Vermona and the Dominion... but what is the future holding for really ambitious mono synths like the matrix brute? with the Midas Deepmind 12 on the horizon and Korgs large format poly on the way, with certainly more companies to follow (does system 8 not count because its digital? I think it might count considering the reactions at knobcon) .... affordably KNOBY poly is on the rise. will there be a world for such mono synths in the future?
also with the massive influx of poly competition... will this force DSI to really challenge the norm once again to come up with a design really groundbreaking? I see a whole new design style on the horizon.

Generally, I'd say - and I think the somewhat saturated market shows that - that the synthesizer has reached a point, where its history is basically written, just like an electric guitar or other now classic instruments. There is still a bit space for a couple of refined designs and more esoteric enhancements, innovations that mostly take place in the realm of software and Eurorack, but all in all I'd say that this is basically it. Everything else is rather a matter of recombinations or permutations to speak in mathematical terms. I do believe, though, that the market is still open for alternative input devices, such as the Linnstrument, the ROLI stuff, or the Continuum, until the keyboard eventually becomes one input source amongst many others and gradually loses its particular significance.

Whether a complex and self-contained (despite CV connectivity) unit like the MatrixBrute will be successful highly depends on how flexible a customer wants it, and how much he or she is willing to spend. Self-contained modular systems like the Pro 2 or the MatrixBrute definitely come in handy from the perspective of pricing alone, because the Eurorack equivalent of those kind of instruments would certainly be a tad more expensive, if not at least twice as much. If money plays no role, the only advantage left may be a handful of input devices that come with the unit, but that's about it I think, since a once assembled Eurorack system is not any less self-contained than everything else. It only has the advantage to be reconfigured at any time in the future. On the other hand it has to be said that it takes a lot of time to fully explore every little detail and option on a synth like the Pro 2 for example. One doesn't necessarily have to speak of lifetime puchases, but if someone gets bored with such synths after a year, something is seriously going wrong in the approach towards it.

I'm not sure whether affordable knoby poly synths are on the rise, as particular one unit, the Prophet '08, has been around for at least eight years by now, which is also why I don't get the hype around the Behringer synth. DSI simply did it before and the Prophet '08 is still a strong competitor next to the DeepMind - at least in terms of modulation options and sonic flexibility. The same counts for the System-8, where the real novelty is the advanced modelling of analog circuit behaviour and of course the option to load other synth models into the dedicated hardware.

Whether the introduction of more and more poly synths will affect DSI in some shape or form will have to be seen. But I don't see many problems for them, as they positioned themselves in the higher midrange price market by now with companies like Modal Electronics being one step higher on the pricing ladder. In general, it makes not much sense for DSI to even try to compete with companies like Korg or Behringer for reasons of production resources alone, so they better keep on focusing on an audience that is willing to pay a little more than the big budget driven manufacturers. I see no problem in doing so, but then I also don't see a huge possibility for developing anything truly groundbreaking anymore (see above), which could really harm a company like DSI. It's rather the opposite situation in my opinion, since an instrument like the Prophet 12 is certainly more adventurous in terms of sound design possibilities than a System-8, which almost exclusively benefits from a lingering nostalgic fever and the fact that the typical Roland sound of the 1970s and 1980s hasn't been around for a while - at least not in an affordable format.

All in all I'd say that the space that's left for innovation with regard to poly synths lies within offering something different, not necessarily by inventing a new sort of technology. One option could be to offer a more west coast inspired architecture within the poly synth format, like something that leaves the traditional subtractive architecture behind completely. For example, a poly synth could offer complex wave generators, wave folders, and spectral analyzers instead of VCOs and filters, and so on.

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Arturia MatrixBrute
« Reply #116 on: September 26, 2016, 07:49:28 AM »
Generally, I'd say - and I think the somewhat saturated market shows that - that the synthesizer has reached a point, where its history is basically written, just like an electric guitar or other now classic instruments. There is still a bit space for a couple of refined designs and more esoteric enhancements, innovations that mostly take place in the realm of software and Eurorack, but all in all I'd say that this is basically it. Everything else is rather a matter of recombinations or permutations to speak in mathematical terms. I do believe, though, that the market is still open for alternative input devices, such as the Linnstrument, the ROLI stuff, or the Continuum, until the keyboard eventually becomes one input source amongst many others and gradually loses its particular significance.

I would agree with this and I think many people could take this claim in a bad way, as something depressing, as if all the fascination and excitement were now over.  But I personally think it's a good thing that, at least regarding analog synthesis, the intensive research and development phase is substantially over.  I'm sure some innovation still remains for the future, but that some leveling off is to be expected allows the synthesizer to be applied to its ends and purposes.  Some will use it to make sounds and others will use it to make music.  But as long as it's still substantially evolving and changing, it's more likely to remain a curiosity. 

A constant state of change is a superficial state, and a degree of consistency is not stagnation, but maturity.  I like the idea of the instrument having reached its maturity and synthesists with it.  It would be a pleasure to see this instrument settle down and become less of a toy and more of a tool.  Which is to say that a high degree of constant research and development on an instrument that is constantly evolving, combined with a market that is ever introducing innovations from various companies, leaves the synthesizer in a state of limbo.  Personally, I much prefer a more static state, because it lends itself to a less distracted use of the instrument.  What I really dislike is the common hyper mentality of constantly wanting the latest thing, the newest thing, and a market that is more than happy to indulge us.  If one is persistently in the state of dreaming about more equipment, selling what one has to afford it, and then making one demo after another of the last acquired gear, then a main casualty is music.  Hence, if you type in the word "synthesizer" on YouTube, you'll find a zillion demonstration videos of parameter tweaking, but a relatively miniscule number of complete musical compositions.  So, in the interests of mature synthesizer music, I'd be happy to see the synthesizer reach a point of normalcy.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 08:07:12 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Arturia MatrixBrute
« Reply #117 on: September 26, 2016, 08:18:41 AM »
I would agree with this and I think many people could take this claim in a bad way, as something depressing, as if all the fascination and excitement were now over.

Right, but I'm totally with you in as much I also regard the current state of synthesizers as a collection of tools that have reached the stage of maturity rather than a situation in which any hope is lost. So in that sense, my original post was neither meant to be provocative nor an outlet for mourning. I think it's good that we now have a plethora of very different synthesizers available, from analog to digital and from affordable to boutique or high end, from self-contained units to modular systems. The key for productivity lies in the coexistence of many different formats and also a non-ideological approach towards different types of synthesis, so that we can eventually move past such debates like "east coast vs west coast," or "analog vs digital." And times have never been any better for that.

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Arturia MatrixBrute
« Reply #118 on: September 26, 2016, 08:42:26 AM »
I would agree with this and I think many people could take this claim in a bad way, as something depressing, as if all the fascination and excitement were now over.

Right, but I'm totally with you in as much I also regard the current state of synthesizers as a collection of tools that have reached the stage of maturity rather than a situation in which any hope is lost. So in that sense, my original post was neither meant to be provocative nor an outlet for mourning. I think it's good that we now have a plethora of very different synthesizers available, from analog to digital and from affordable to boutique or high end, from self-contained units to modular systems. The key for productivity lies in the coexistence of many different formats and also a non-ideological approach towards different types of synthesis, so that we can eventually move past such debates like "east coast vs west coast," or "analog vs digital." And times have never been any better for that.

Likewise, I was fully and happily agreeing with you but also imagining how many synthesisists would take your comments. 

Like no other instrument I'm aware of, the synthesizer is held captive by a state of perpetual "newness" that has it forever being re-introduced, due to this new feature or that new feature.  In fact, many of us could name the heroes of "demodom" - from Roland, to Korg, to Moog, to such general "demoders" as Nick Batt.  Again, this is not helpful where music/art is concerned and over-emphasizes the market as almost being an end itself.  You can easily find yourself spending much more time watching such demonstrations than making actual music on your own instruments!  This is absurd.

The comparison may be silly to some, but look up YouTube videos on organ, harpsichord, and piano.  You'll find a handful of historical talks and a few describing the mechanical aspects of the instruments, but the vast vast majority will be of high-quality music and performances.  I'd like to see the synthesizer approach, at least to some degree, such a mature state.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 08:59:20 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Arturia MatrixBrute
« Reply #119 on: September 26, 2016, 09:09:43 AM »
Likewise, I wasn't starting an argument.  I was fully and happily agreeing with you but also imagining how many synthesisists would take your comments.

I know, I know. It wasn't exclusively addressed at you.

Like no other instrument I'm aware of, the synthesizer is held captive by a state of perpetual "newness" that has it forever being re-introduced, due to this new feature or that new feature.  In fact, many of us could name the heroes of "demodom" - from Roland, to Korg, to Moog, to such general "demoders" as Nick Batt.  Again, this is not helpful where music/art is concerned and over-emphasizes the market as almost being an end itself.  You can easily find yourself spending much more time watching such demonstrations than making actual music on your own instruments!  This really is absurd.

The comparison may be silly to some, but look up YouTube videos on organ, harpsichord, and piano.  You'll find a handful of historical talks and a few describing the mechanical aspects of the instruments, but the vast vast majority will be of high-quality music and performances.  I'd like to see the synthesizer approach, at least to some degree, such a mature state.

If there had been YouTube between the 9th and the first half of the 20th century, there could have certainly been reviews about the different incarnations of organs, albeit rather every 50-100 years instead of every other week.  ;D

Plus: The synthesizer is simply a different instrument. Some may use it in a traditional way, but it's not really conceptualized as a traditional instrument, because from a logical POV every sound you program equals one instrument in the traditional sense, but a whole synthesizer as such doesn't. On the level of emulations, it might come closest to the organ with its registers, although that doesn't move the latter an inch closer to a synth. It has simply to do with a different kind of complexity of electronic instruments compared to mechanical ones. A synthesizer sort of transcends mechanical limitations. More importantly though, the technological side has always been emphasized way more with regard to electonic instruments, which could be called the price for the freedom of sound shaping tools. It was Don Buchla's wish to make electronic instruments more accessible in terms of an intuitive use btw.