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Dark Energy-Pro One cv/gate issue

Dark Energy-Pro One cv/gate issue
« on: February 05, 2018, 08:19:13 AM »
I'll start this off as I start nearly every post here, with the disclaimer that I'm a pretty low-tech fellow, despite sitting in a room full of gear that I use every day - bear with me!

I've got a Pro One hooked up to my Dark Energy synth via CV/Gate. The DE is meanwhile run via MIDI. This has worked fine, most of the time, with the Pro One playable from a master keyboard, or more likely being run off a MIDI track. Twice recently, though, the Pro One stopped re-triggering as it's meant to. The gate stays open. I really don't know what I did that solved the problem the first time.

I've noticed that the sequence/arpeggiator no longer seem to work, so maybe there's a glitch with the Pro One itself. 

If anyone has any insight or trouble-shooting ideas, I'd be much appreciative.

Thanks!

(Edit: I tried triggering the Pro One from a drum machine trigger out and no response there, so I'm thinking it's the Gate/Clock in gone wrong... )
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 08:30:06 AM by Ant of 12047 »

Re: Dark Energy-Pro One cv/gate issue
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2018, 03:08:55 PM »
Ok, seems this isn't the most engaging post on the forum, but... I'm still having the same issue with the Pro One not triggering, but a curious twist has left me baffled. I patched my Korg MS-20's Modulation Generator triangle wave output into the Gate input of the Pro One and it indeed triggered the Pro One. I tried the same with the square/rectangle output, but no result with that.

Maybe the Gate Input on the Pro One is basically broken, and that's that, but I'm curious if anyone has a clue why the triangle from the Korg's MG would be the one thing that had any effect.

megamarkd

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Re: Dark Energy-Pro One cv/gate issue
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2018, 06:57:34 PM »
That is weird.  I don't know about the Pro One and it's voltages used, but the MS-20 does use odd voltages, well the original does at least.  But that aside, it's odd that the triangle wave is triggering the Pro One, as it's a bipolar wave running at +-2.5v and the square/pulse is 0-5v, if using an original, so one would think the square would trigger if the triangle was.  Check the Pro One specs for what it's expecting for a trigger/gate.  I'd like to think there was an overvolt protection on the input if it does use a low trigger voltage.
Don't know about the reissued MS-20 and it's voltage output levels, I'm pretty sure that can be changed to do the eurorack standard CV's, but the MG on the original MS-20 is compliant with eurorack as it is, which pretty much has become the defacto CV standard.  It's really only the pitch and gate CV's that are the trouble makers (I bought a Paia Fatman simply because it could output Hz/V from MIDI some years ago, then found it doesn't do S-Trig.....them my brother lost it while he was modding it for s-trig, how do you lose a frigging rack synth?)

Re: Dark Energy-Pro One cv/gate issue
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2018, 03:46:20 AM »
That is weird.  I don't know about the Pro One and it's voltages used, but the MS-20 does use odd voltages, well the original does at least.  But that aside, it's odd that the triangle wave is triggering the Pro One, as it's a bipolar wave running at +-2.5v and the square/pulse is 0-5v, if using an original, so one would think the square would trigger if the triangle was.  Check the Pro One specs for what it's expecting for a trigger/gate.  I'd like to think there was an overvolt protection on the input if it does use a low trigger voltage.
Don't know about the reissued MS-20 and it's voltage output levels, I'm pretty sure that can be changed to do the eurorack standard CV's, but the MG on the original MS-20 is compliant with eurorack as it is, which pretty much has become the defacto CV standard.  It's really only the pitch and gate CV's that are the trouble makers (I bought a Paia Fatman simply because it could output Hz/V from MIDI some years ago, then found it doesn't do S-Trig.....them my brother lost it while he was modding it for s-trig, how do you lose a frigging rack synth?)


This sort of stuff puts my un-tech head to the test. I'm basically reading off the front panel of the MS-20 (mini, by the way, not original). MG Triangle is indeed +/-2.5v, square is +5/0. Zero idea what that means in dog years, but there you go!

I know the Pro One needs repair, as the Gate is clearly glitchy, but it's peculiar that the MS-20 still has an effective effect, at least in one instance.

megamarkd

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Re: Dark Energy-Pro One cv/gate issue
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2018, 06:28:16 AM »
It has obviously gone bad, but at least in way that it's still usable.  If only the MS-20's LFO had a retrig function, you could get away with using it to run the Pro One.  Maybe try sending the EG1 out to the Pro One?  Set it to a basic no attack/no release envelope, hold a note and see if it gates the Pro One.
But really sending it to the shop is the answer.  I have a multimeter sitting on the desk next to me, but I know I'd rather be playing than testing, so my 40yr old MS-20's S&H is still not functioning.  Now the output on it is dying (yay headphones jack!), I'm considering sending it to the shop just because I always end up playing a different instrument every time the thought of pulling out the tool kit to take apart a synth for anything more than a battery change enters my mind.

Re: Dark Energy-Pro One cv/gate issue
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2018, 12:46:42 PM »
It has obviously gone bad, but at least in way that it's still usable.  If only the MS-20's LFO had a retrig function, you could get away with using it to run the Pro One.  Maybe try sending the EG1 out to the Pro One?  Set it to a basic no attack/no release envelope, hold a note and see if it gates the Pro One.
But really sending it to the shop is the answer.  I have a multimeter sitting on the desk next to me, but I know I'd rather be playing than testing, so my 40yr old MS-20's S&H is still not functioning.  Now the output on it is dying (yay headphones jack!), I'm considering sending it to the shop just because I always end up playing a different instrument every time the thought of pulling out the tool kit to take apart a synth for anything more than a battery change enters my mind.

The MS-20's EG out doesn't trigger the Pro One, but the white and pink noise outputs do! Odd! In fact, all sorts of outputs from the MS-20 have an effect on the Gate in of the Pro One, though it's not like anything is exactly turning the gate on and off - it's more like various things (EG 2 rev out, ESP trig out) open the Gate and twiddle the tone/pitch/CV, even though the CV in on the Pro One is hooked up to the Dark Energy.

Anyway, yeah, it's certainly a job for the repair shop... (Ha! Oops, I've "fixed" the Pro One again!! All my mucking about in-between typing this reply has seemingly tricked the Gate into behaving correctly again. I'm certain it'll trip out and misbehave within minutes, but it's amusing how temperamental these creatures are!) Thankfully, the Pro One is usable otherwise, I just can't use it reliably via CV/Gate. In moments when it does still work, nothing quite as pleasing as ancient Pro One holding hands with the Prophet 6. Aw!

megamarkd

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Re: Dark Energy-Pro One cv/gate issue
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2018, 05:52:44 PM »
Nice one.  There is some joy in getting a malfunctioning synth to do something interesting for you through a little experimentation.
It running on the EG2 out is interesting as it's a 0v-neg5v output (inverse of the hardwire) and fits with the triwave triggering.  But a fun idea would be, if the ESP trigger is working, to use another instrument through the MS-20's ESP.  Just hook up a [insert non-synth instrument of choice here] to the ESP as you would to run the MS-20 but then patch it into the Pro One.  The pitch won't be right, but send the Pro One pitch from elsewhere like a sequencer and have it being gated by, say, a guitar from the MS-20.  Guitars and MS-20s are pretty fun.

megamarkd

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Re: Dark Energy-Pro One cv/gate issue
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2018, 12:03:19 AM »
I was just looking at my MS-20 and the EG2 Rev is actually a +/-2.5v envelope.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2018, 12:41:51 AM by megamarkd »

Re: Dark Energy-Pro One cv/gate issue
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2018, 05:24:42 AM »
Nice one.  There is some joy in getting a malfunctioning synth to do something interesting for you through a little experimentation.
It running on the EG2 out is interesting as it's a 0v-neg5v output (inverse of the hardwire) and fits with the triwave triggering.  But a fun idea would be, if the ESP trigger is working, to use another instrument through the MS-20's ESP.  Just hook up a [insert non-synth instrument of choice here] to the ESP as you would to run the MS-20 but then patch it into the Pro One.  The pitch won't be right, but send the Pro One pitch from elsewhere like a sequencer and have it being gated by, say, a guitar from the MS-20.  Guitars and MS-20s are pretty fun.


Have to confess I don't think I've ever hooked up a guitar to the MS-20. When I was younger, I'd hook up anything to everything (I don't recommend the speaker out of a JC60 into the audio in of a Pro One, mind - oops!), with zero guess in advance as to what would happen. I've tried every microphone in every corner of every room, but now my main mic is next to my desk, input level set for reliable result. I'll still run a guitar into the MS-10 cos I know it provides a very certain usable distorted tone, but mostly, I'm just a "get on with what I know works" fellow these days. Not always, but mostly. All this is to say, once I'm done sitting in front of the fan, which may be hours in this heat, I might just have to head downstairs and grab my Danelectro and see what the MS-20 makes of it...

Re: Dark Energy-Pro One cv/gate issue
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2018, 07:59:57 AM »
Result! I cobbled together an ESP patch for the MS-20m and, controlling it with guitar, conjured "distressed opera singer," "sad puppy" and "worried woman (generic)" all at the same time!! Quite entertaining. Now all I need is a song that needs those sounds played as guitar solo!

megamarkd

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Re: Dark Energy-Pro One cv/gate issue
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2018, 04:02:16 PM »
 ;D