KORG Prologue

[Sacred Synthesis]

It's called entitlement.    We want it, so therefore, we should get it.  

DSI is an excellent company, but they're limited in what they can provide, due to their small size.  To hold them to the standard of other massive companies is unreasonable. 

Whatever features they advertise with the release of a new instrument they are duty-bound to provide, together with the necessary fixes to get those features working properly.  We can all agree on that.  But above and beyond it, added features are just that, and the company should feel no obligation to continue to multiply them. 

I think DSI sincerely tries to respond to people's reasonable requests for extra features.  So, the whining that occasionally appears here, merely because some people don't get exactly what they want, is ridiculous, as if DSI didn't respond to requests simply because they didn't feel like it.  And insulting someone is sure a strange way of trying to persuade him or her to grant your requests. 

Those of you who like to mouth off ought to reflect on the fact that DSI is gracious enough to allow you to come on their own forum and publically complain about their products and insult their service, even though they've done nothing wrong and broken no promises or obligations to you.  And that they treat you with such and patience and respect in return is rather shocking.

[LoboLives]

Hey folks, let's not carry over the feature request discussion from the Rev2 subforum to this rather unrelated thread. I'm not writing this to shut people down, but I can sense a growing passive aggressive tone that I believe isn't very fruitful for the future climate of this forum.

As for those comments about feature requests, I would also like to point out that it doesn't make sense to measure a comparably tiny company like DSI against manufacturers like Korg, as they simply don't share the same resources, neither in terms of employee numbers nor—which is related to that—in terms of exclusive firmware maintenance time. There is no large division for past products and one for future developments. In a small company like DSI, most people have to take care of many different tasks simultaneously.

The latter simply means that it sometimes takes a bit of patience while you're waiting for OS updates or bug fixes. Yes, that can be frustrating at times, which has also already been acknowledged on behalf of DSI on a number of occasions. But there's certainly not an evil masterplan behind all that, like a willful strategy for letting down customers. Quite the opposite is the case: The tech support is very responsive and will usually get back to you within 24 hours. These people also make sure that in those cases where parts have to be swapped, things will be handled as straightforward as possible both in terms of repairs and shipping.

The reason why it can take a bit longer now and then is simply a company with less than 20 employees, a not inconsiderable number of instruments to take care of—most of which have a flagship status—, and finally the fact that they're still developing new products each year to keep us gear nerds happy.

So, let's all take a deep breath and try to engage in a more constructive conversation, not least because there are human beings that like to be treated fairly on each side.

Agreed.

I honestly don’t get all these feature requests.  Bug fixes, sure. That’s different. But demanding features that were never advertised or promised?  That borders on moronic. 
Imagine the guy who buys a car, takes it back to the dealership after a couple months, and demands the dealership add a navigation system. They might do it if you PAID for it, but otherwise, they start laughing.
When you buy an item, it generally comes as is — that is certainly true as to features.

I think for me personally my requests usually revolve around the sequencer. So you can transpose it without having to hold down record and also sequencer midi out. I’m not holding my breath on either but my frustration was it was requested with the Prophet 6 ,then the OB6 And now on the REV2 it still hasn’t been done. Like I understand not having the resources to go back and implement it but repeating the same thing on your next synth seems a bit silly when you already know what the reaction is going to be. Ultimately though, it’s Dave’s decision. If he doesn’t want to do it or is set in his ways then honestly I think the best thing to do would be to do what they did with the Tempest. Officially announce that there will be no more OS updates or new features or address why certain features can’t be implemented. I honestly feel bad for a lot of the DSI staff on here cause they have to play referee or be the go between and that’s never fun.

[John01W]

Hey folks, let's not carry over the feature request discussion from the Rev2 subforum to this rather unrelated thread. I'm not writing this to shut people down, but I can sense a growing passive aggressive tone that I believe isn't very fruitful for the future climate of this forum.

As for those comments about feature requests, I would also like to point out that it doesn't make sense to measure a comparably tiny company like DSI against manufacturers like Korg, as they simply don't share the same resources, neither in terms of employee numbers nor—which is related to that—in terms of exclusive firmware maintenance time. There is no large division for past products and one for future developments. In a small company like DSI, most people have to take care of many different tasks simultaneously.

The latter simply means that it sometimes takes a bit of patience while you're waiting for OS updates or bug fixes. Yes, that can be frustrating at times, which has also already been acknowledged on behalf of DSI on a number of occasions. But there's certainly not an evil masterplan behind all that, like a willful strategy for letting down customers. Quite the opposite is the case: The tech support is very responsive and will usually get back to you within 24 hours. These people also make sure that in those cases where parts have to be swapped, things will be handled as straightforward as possible both in terms of repairs and shipping.

The reason why it can take a bit longer now and then is simply a company with less than 20 employees, a not inconsiderable number of instruments to take care of—most of which have a flagship status—, and finally the fact that they're still developing new products each year to keep us gear nerds happy.

So, let's all take a deep breath and try to engage in a more constructive conversation, not least because there are human beings that like to be treated fairly on each side.

That's very reasonable and thought out post(very thoughtful of folks on all sides)....and I agree with a lot if not all...but my thinking is of the P6/OB6 not the REV2...going forward I'll keep it in it's respective forum.

on the other hand(not related to post quoted):
on cue, here come the LECTURES..topped off with character attacks of fellow customers in the community.  That's NOT right and I think it's out of line/will turn people away and it's a negative experience for users...I think the point is being proven in real time..

  Don't bash folks for wondering what's commonplace in the synth market(feature requests)...it's innocent and not deserving of attack.  As a matter of fact, I'd say these requests are a service to DSI because it gives them ideas of what customers want/need in current and future products. "they're ALL a bunch of entitled people"...really?

The majority of things people REQUEST, ARE fixes or to enhance the usability of the product....for example:

The arp on the P6/OB6 is not syncable IMO unless you're practically a human sequencer, in a live situation, forget it....really takes the fun and usefulness out of it.......you shouldn't have to have a sequencer to trigger an arp to get the most out of it(especially on a current gen premium product).  That's very reasonable and from what I read HERE it was being considered some time ago(TY), so DSI might see something to that.

The sequencer thing I agree with Lobo(look how carefully he thinks he has to tread!), and lots of folks have requested(NOT demanded, that's a HUGE TWIST)...that's another thing but I understand you could have read the manual before you bought it......

Being cold/dismissive is getting to be the rep on these things and it's not because "they're ALL a bunch of entitled people"....one sounds crazy saying that.  People get run off like this and no one is doing DSI any favors with this approach.

I'm a huge fan of DSI, and I'm a huge advocate for their products(and friendly service, I could share an awesome story about a great experience with them...but I'll keep it to myself to be respectful ) 

[Sacred Synthesis]

Make your requests to have things fixed.  That's fine; no one objects to that.  But do it with some dignity and decency.  What part did the video above play in making your case?  It only hurt it.  The fact is, DSI never responds to reasonable requests in that way.

We've been through this before.  From time to time, a few posters will cross the line and spoil this forum with their attitudes and rudeness.  And yes, it's definitely entitlement.  It says, "Gimmie this now or I'm going to start stamping my feet!"  No one wants to read it, okay?  It turns people off who come to this forum for decent and serious conversation about instruments, and who don't want to see such rudeness.  This is not Gearslutz.

[John01W]

Make your requests to have things fixed.  That's fine; no one objects to that.  But do it with some dignity and decency.  What part did the video above play in making your case?  It only hurt it.  The fact is, DSI never responds to reasonable requests in that way.

We've been through this before.  From time to time, a few posters will cross the line and make this forum a crap shoot with their attitudes and complaints.  And yes, it's definitely entitlement.  It says, "Gimmie this now or I'm going to start stamping my feet!"  No one wants to read it, okay?  It turns people off who come to this forum for decent and serious conversation and information about instruments, and who don't want to see such rudeness.  This is not Gearslutz.

I disagree completely with some of your characterizations, respectfully.

[Sacred Synthesis]

That's obvious.  Can we just drop the soap opera now and get back to normal?  Thank you.

[John01W]

Can we just drop the soap opera now and get back to normal?  Thank you.

I think that's good advice for EVERYONE...and you're welcome.

[Sacred Synthesis]

This seems to offer the cleanest driest example of the instrument's sonic character I've heard so far:

[Paul Dither]

This seems to offer the cleanest driest example of the instrument's sonic character I've heard so far:

Okay, that's indeed one of the more decent demos in terms of excessive use of effects. This sounds pretty good to me and I got the impression that how the Prologue comes across sonically varies from demo to demo, which of course is not unusual. What still remains problematic, I think, is not only the single LFO, but the fact that it only allows for selecting one modulation destination at a time. That, combined with the absence of aftertouch as a possible modulation source, makes even the Prophet-6 and the OB-6 look like modulation monsters.

Open (or better put, extensible) firmware, for both oscillator and for FX slots, is a smart idea, but it requires a tacit positive assessment regarding the ability of one's end users (or third-party developers) to deliver something of value to a design outside of the traditional product development process.

That's true. The requirements it might take to make full use of the open source based digital side could turn this into a rather exclusive affair. What it could result in for most users, though, are probably additional digital waveform and effect packs one can buy.

[Sacred Synthesis]

That, combined with the absence of aftertouch as a possible modulation source, makes even the Prophet-6 and the OB-6 look like modulation monsters.

Hah!  That's funny.  The catch with the P-6 and OB-6 is that - if one is willing and able - there is the pricey but worthy module option.  I would love to have a few hours with a P-6 Keyboard-Module pair, because I think it would overcome some of the limitations in the simplicity of the instrument's design.  If I remember correctly, you can use one of the audio oscillators for LFO purposes.  That would give you two LFO's from each unit, and the pairing would restore the lost second audio oscillator.  So, if someone was really crazy for either instrument, he or she could squeeze much more out of each by pairing. 

I wonder if Korg will offer a Prologue Module option, as they did with the Odyssey and MS-20.  That could compensate somewhat for the paucity of modulation. 

I listened to the Prologue demo by Sweetwater.  It's fairly impressive, if that's your kind of thing.  I could see how some synthesists could find the Prologue to be a gem. 

[BobTheDog]

I must admit I really like the sound of this synth, maybe there is something wrong with me!

A few months ago there was a synth gathering down my way. Afterwards there was a collection of "groups" playing in the evening, one of them was that guy from Sonic State doing a solo thing with a collections of synths. He put on a good show, one of the synths really stood out so at the end I drunkenly went up and asked him which synth was playing the particular parts and it was a Monologue, I was totally flabbergasted as every demo on the net I had listened too had not grabbed me in any way. I stumbled home thinking I have to get one of those.

I didn't but now I listen to the prologue demos and definitely think I could have one of those, if they did a module I might well get one.

 

[Sacred Synthesis]

The question is, did you ever like the sound of the Monologue when you weren't drunk? 

[Paul Dither]

I wonder if Korg will offer a Prologue Module option, as they did with the Odyssey and MS-20.  That could compensate somewhat for the paucity of modulation.

That might depend on sales. After all, this is the first full-sized analog Korg synth since the 1980s, so they might wanna test the waters first. I could also see no module happening, as this is clearly designed to be a stand-alone performance instrument for which the attached keyboard is important—technically and conceptually I mean.

I must admit I really like the sound of this synth, maybe there is something wrong with me!

I don't think there's anything wrong with you. It definitely has its own character and does sound pleasing. The FX section also seems to be of high quality. It doesn't copy any of the current analog poly synths sonically, so it'll probably be a good complementary piece for something like a Prophet-6 or Rev2, also due to the digital oscillator of course.

[DavidDever]

What still remains problematic, I think, is not only the single LFO, but the fact that it only allows for selecting one modulation destination at a time. That, combined with the absence of aftertouch as a possible modulation source, makes even the Prophet-6 and the OB-6 look like modulation monsters.

I can think of a few cases where sending one LFO to multiple destinations would be useful, but is it a must-have?

Stated differently: if Korg / Tatsuya Takahashi (who was responsible for a good portion of the design, and has continued with Korg in a consulting role) decided to forgo "(shaping) the functionality of (their) instruments based on what (their) competitors do", would that be as well-received, were it not DSI making that statement?

[Sacred Synthesis]

I'm not sure that DSI's independent approach is so well-received.  As far as I know, I'm the only one who has praised it here.  But regarding Korg - as with DSI - it would all depend on the results.  After all, isn't this what so many people praise about Buchla - his uniqueness, as compared with other synthesizer manufacturers?

[Paul Dither]

I can think of a few cases where sending one LFO to multiple destinations would be useful, but is it a must-have?

Not necessarily a must have and I'm a friend of limitations as well. But on the Prophet-6, for example, it helps in pushing it where you wouldn't initially think of. But this is of course no Prophet-6, but its own thing. Nevertheless, having the option to modulate more than one mod destination with one mod source adds a bit more variation.

Stated differently: if Korg / Tatsuya Takahashi (who was responsible for a good portion of the design, and has continued with Korg in a consulting role) decided to forgo "(shaping) the functionality of (their) instruments based on what (their) competitors do", would that be as well-received, were it not DSI making that statement?

I think that's even kind of necessary if you wanna come up with "your own thing." So that attitude is fine with me. And the Prologue also succeeded at that in providing a quite strange and unique mix: a fairly simple, though massive in voice number, analog poly engine and this rather adventurous open source based digital side.

And let's not forget that this is the first big poly synth—in terms of voices—that has been released ever since the Andromeda, that's not based on Curtis chips.

[LoboLives]

I'm not sure that DSI's independent approach is so well-received.  As far as I know, I'm the only one who has praised it here.  But regarding Korg - as with DSI - it would all depend on the results.  After all, isn't this what so many people praise about Buchla - his uniqueness, as compared with other synthesizer manufacturers?

I'm just not hearing anything unique about the Prologue though. I'm not saying it sounds horrid, there's a character to it but everything from the design to it's functions just scream "Basic". The third user Osc3 is a cool idea but it seems to be a bit of an afterthought really. It's all promising for eventualities with very little information present. It just feels incomplete.

[Sacred Synthesis]

LoboLives, listen to this Sweetwater demonstration, if you haven't already:

[chysn]

The third user Osc3 is a cool idea but it seems to be a bit of an afterthought really.

You think so? See, I thought the third oscillator was the whole shootin' match, the reason that somebody would buy the thing. The analog side is nice, but simple, and the digital oscillator is what sort of gives it some complexity.

[megamarkd]

The third user Osc3 is a cool idea but it seems to be a bit of an afterthought really.

You think so? See, I thought the third oscillator was the whole shootin' match, the reason that somebody would buy the thing. The analog side is nice, but simple, and the digital oscillator is what sort of gives it some complexity.

Word.  And is sort of a way to gauge if Korg should go the noodler's route I would think.  Obviously there is a market for synths that are aimed at synth nerds (who don't have modulars) but to aim directly at them would be silly for Korg to do until they know that the customers will buy them in quantities that will bring in revenue.  Who knows we might get another Wavestation-esque beast out of them in a year of so if the interest is there.