Key Size

[Paul Dither]

I actualy like the way Roland thought the Boutique synths out... Making the keys an addon... I wish they would do this more in the industry, so that people can decide themselves if they want those minikeys to take up space, and if they want a full-size keyboard, could attach a keyboard controller of their own choice.

I absolutely agree. That's their advantage over the Reface series, apart from the price of course.

I think the Boutique series was made for women... they tend to like small things

I've been told size does indeed matter…

[Paul Dither]

Besides... has anyone in this thread actualy tried the slimline keys? ... are they really that hard to play? ... I can understand that you would have to get used to the difference in scale length, but once this is done, do you make many errors hitting wrong notes?

They're okay. I used them on my MS-20 Mini. I didn't find them hard to play, although I would have preferred full-sized keys of course. But then they are not like the standard mini keys. It's possible to play fast solos and stuff like that on them. To me, those keys are somehow more tolerable on a mono synth than on a poly synth. Either way, it makes the unit more compact and that is what counts for many.

I'm asking because, personaly I would not mind if I had to get used to a slimline keyboard if it was the only keyboard I was to play (master keyboard) ... I can definitely see two advantages in my case with a slimline approach... 1. The space that is required on my tabletop (this is a HUGE issue! I want my controller keyboard right in front of me!) ... and 2. The slightly less range scale... that would allow my fingers to reach notes easier, and even some at the extreme that my fingers would not normaly be able to, when my hand is holding more than one key down.

For me personally, it wasn't a huge deal to get used to them. One just uses them, period. And of course it's easier to play larger intervals.

[BobTheDog]

Although I'm probably closer to being the producer with a studio full of gear than a live performer or player, I still struggle with anything other than full-size keys. The only mini-keyed thing I have is the MS-20mini and I treat like a module. The keys themselves are literally gathering dust. The rest of the synths here are for playing, however incompetently, and sketching out ideas. I can do that on full-size keys without looking.

A parallel to this is scale lengths on different guitars. My main guitar, a Jazzmaster, is a full 25.5in scale length. One of my other guitars is a Jaguar, which has a slightly shorter scale length of 24in. I find it almost impossible to switch between them without fumbling chords, and the difference there is much less than the difference between full-size and mini-keys.

Personally, I would hesitate before buying another mini-keyed instrument. Instruments are such tactile things and I don't feel the same connection to a synth I don't want to physically play. I struggle with modules and soft synths for the same reason.

It's just practice though I guess, guitar scale length has absolutely no impact for me but I regularly play lots of guitars with different scale length and profiles, also 1/2, 3/4, baritone, banjo, longer scale bass etc. So I guess I have no standard.

It is more difficult when they are fretless, this can take a while to get your finger placement in tune but I guess this is just practice as well in the end.

What I do notice is that scale length can make me prefer different keys while noodling along, probably to do with general comfort of arm placement.

[chysn]

I haven't yet come across a rational for mini keys among mini keys users, other than the economic issue - that it allows you to get a synthesizer for a lower price tag.

I keep my MicroBrute on my office desk where it's always on-hand to enter notes into Finale. This isn't a cost issue (there are far less expensive 2-octave controllers), nor really a space issue (my office desk is really big). It's just a good format for that sort of data entry.

I'm pretty comfortable with mini keys, since they're about the same width as standard piano accordion keys, and I also play piano accordion.

[dslsynth]

Short thread summary: Muscle memory matters for skilled keyboard players.

@Paul Dither: Thanks for the history lesson! . o O ( useful )

[dslsynth]

Today's young generation rediscovers the future of the synth's past that was never really fullfilled, except amongst a couple of geeks in the academic context.

Well and some of the older ones as well. Synthesizers do indeed have a much larger sonic space to be explored than what can be expressed with those black and white on/off switches. That is why new expressive controllers keep coming up and why researchers have been working on ways to explore more of the synthesizers sound space in performances. Some people can indeed see the advantage of more expressive synthesizer playing.

This is not to discount the keyboard interface to synthesizers in any way. Its just that these awesome sound engines have multiple potential interfaces each with their advantages and disadvantages. This thread is about the physical properties of one of these interfaces. Use cases indicates that size does indeed matter.

. o O ( god shave the keys )

[Bald Eagle]

For me it's simple, I'm used to standard size keys. I can't play any other size well and can't be bothered to take the time to practice with mini keys.


That being said, I'm not opposed to owning a synth that has them. They can be useful when programming a patch just to have something right in front of you to trigger a few notes or enter a sequence. Otherwise just let them collect dust. Any knobby synth that I want to tweak while playing live just needs full size keys.


Whenever the topic of mini vs full size keys comes up I seldom hear any discussion about the number of keys. Sure, 37 full size keys vs 37 mini's would be my preference. But what about 37 mini vs 25 full size? One of my synths is the Sub Phatty which has 2 octaves of full size keys. I still prefer having fewer keys even though I mainly use the Sub P as a module/extra oscillators for my Sub 37 and seldom touch the keys. I find that 25 keys is just not enough for many things.


Mini keys are obviously selling well or they would be long gone by now. May as well get used to seeing them.

[chysn]

Whenever the topic of mini vs full size keys comes up I seldom hear any discussion about the number of keys. Sure, 37 full size keys vs 37 mini's would be my preference. But what about 37 mini vs 25 full size?

I'd prefer 37 full-size over 49 mini, but 37 mini over 25 full-size, because at the 25-key point it becomes a desktop sound module. Mopho keyboard is 32 full-size, and that just wore me down over time, which is why I don't have a Mopho keyboard today. I really hope that DSI has given up on the 32-key keyboard.

[DavidDever]

I'm actually working on a controller project for my own use at the moment.

The full-size Fatar waterfall keys (especially when weighted) are quite nice and easy to move across:


though I would happily take the TP/60L as well:

which have a slightly longer throw than the old Pratt-Read keybeds (though they are heavier).

I also still have a fondness for the DX7-style keybeds that Yamaha and Korg used for years.

[chysn]

I also still have a fondness for the DX7-style keybeds that Yamaha and Korg used for years.

Yeah, those are the best. That leaf-spring mechanism will hold up to unspeakable abuse for decades. They'll be going strong long after today's coil-springs and conductive rubber wear away.

[Strange Quark Star]

I also still have a fondness for the DX7-style keybeds that Yamaha and Korg used for years.

Yeah, those are the best. That leaf-spring mechanism will hold up to unspeakable abuse for decades. They'll be going strong long after today's coil-springs and conductive rubber wear away.

I haven't played the Prophet~6 for more than 20 minutes at the store and couldn't compare directly, but my DX7II's keyboard still seems to be the best to play among synthesizers. The keys are loud as hell, but the dynamic control it offers (also the aftertouch response) feels just superb to me, much better than my Prophet '08.