It's happened....Behringer....

[Sacred Synthesis]

Well, that's all they are right now.

[Shaw]

Well, that's all they are right now.

not even.  I can load virtual instruments into my computer.

[dslsynth]

not even.  I can load virtual instruments into my computer.

Yeah, B-word just managed to invent a new type of virtual instrument.

[Shaw]

not even.  I can load virtual instruments into my computer.

Yeah, B-word just managed to invent a new type of virtual instrument.

The Un-intentional Virtual Instrument?
The Hypothetical Virtual Instrument?

[Sacred Synthesis]

How about the non-existent instruments?

[Shaw]

How about the non-existent instruments?

But those aren't virtual, are they? 

[dslsynth]

The Hypothetical Virtual Instrument?

I was thinking more in terms of Instrument.

. o O ( fun in the market place )

[dslsynth]

How about the non-existent instruments?

Exactly! You see what actually happened was one of the usual suspects trolling the market. Some people want to see affordable versions of old iconic instrument. But you know what? They will most likely not sound as awesome as the old machines and they will not feature modern qualities such as the ability to save/recall sounds. Nor for that matter combine the awesome sound of the classic machines with modern day pitch stability. In other words: its a dream. Move on and look forward is the best advice I can give.

[Sacred Synthesis]

I'm always looking forward.  I don't own a single used/vintage instrument.  I'm simply indifferent to year of origin.  A good instrument is a good instrument, no matter when it was designed.  I like the Prophet 12, and I also like the ARP 2600 and Odyssey.  I'm not prejudiced for or against either direction, but consider them equal but distinct.  That seems to be the most level-headed approach to what is often a convoluted topic of debate.  For me, there is no debate.  I don't care to appear oh-so-modern, nor am I interested in following the retro folks.  This is one big non-topic for me.  I simply do not care about an instrument's date of making.

[Soundquest]

Even if GS is the largest online synth forum, don't view the synth world through its blood-shot eyes.  Perhaps we're approaching the topic of the problems with synth forums in general.  Like social media, they often give a misleading picture of reality, as interpreted through the opinions of a limited number of vocal and often belligerent individuals.  It's better to keep your head down and focus on your own work, rather than daily sift through all of that rubbish and allow it to influence your own thoughts.

So true, social media is really swaying our attitudes and decisions too much compared to relying on first hand observances.  Applying that same concept to my synth hobby,  I found that to be somewhat true.   Last year I had  been doing some scanning on Youtube and reading some manufacturer advertisement stats (good sources IMO) about an instrument. Then I went out and purchased a Deepmind 12 based on that info.  I know "B" not the most popular company to mention here, but I actually did end up being satisfied with the product.  Anyway, my point is...had I relied strictly on synth forums debates, including some found here,  I perhaps would have been scared away from purchasing it.   Oh well, I don't know much about the behind the scenes at the "B" company, but neither do I know much about the executives or ethics that exist behind the scenes at Sony, Chrysler, GMC, Kenmore, and even my bank, whom I (and guessing others do) engage in purchases with based mainly on the products offered.

 .   



 

[Sacred Synthesis]

So true as well, Soundquest.  It's tragically the case that many people now experience life primarily through a screen and through others.  You can watch hiking videos all day on YouTube, but that's not hiking  There's nothing like the real thing, like hiking the Appalacian Trail for yourself, coming home with a few cuts and bruises, and a head full of wonderful memories as well.  That's real living.

Even in this highly technical field of electronic music, one has to draw a line.  You can spend most of your music time watching videos of other people making music or demonstrating equipment, together with reading the views of other people on forums and expressing your own.  It gradually becomes an end in itself, so that most of your synthesizer activity consists of this passivity.  It's crazy.  I found myself prone to this, and so I've had to gradually wrestle my way off a number of forums.  This is now the only forum I post on or even read, and I've drastically cut back here as well.   

The virtual world is teeming with viewpoints, comments, and rumors.  So much of this is inaccurate or plainly erroneous - as we've just recently been reminded.  And in terms of advice, people often suggest that you do what they would do if they were in your situation.  And that's terrible advice.  I've found that, when making decisions about equipment, I've usually had to go against the tide and do what others thought ridiculous and said I should not do. 

The best solution at decision-time is to withdraw from all the online chatter, carefully think things through, and then make a decision based on your own intelligence.  Spend research time carefully examining the piece of equipment on the company's website.  That's the most valuable research.  But if you seek a lot of advice on the forums in making decisions, remember that there are heaps of bad advice to be found, and often this bad advice is the most loudly expressed of all.

My personal solution has been to spend much less time on forums and YouTube, and more time at the instruments.  If I need information, I go directly to the source - the company or store website.  The time available for music-making should be spent, not obsessively researching equipment and sifting through masses of opinions about it online, but actually making music with the equipment you have.

[Bryan_D]

I'm happy to see Behringer reviving some of the old classics. But I have never been big on Behringer so my question is essentially this:  can anybody here speak to the build / sound quality of recent Behringer products?  specifically synths?


About 15 years ago, I was considering a Behringer mixer, and a sales rep at Sweetwater who I trusted (and still trust) warned me away from them due to build and sound quality. Since then I have had that bias toward Behringer -- I've associated them with lower quality products.  Has this changed?  It is certainly possible. Over the years, a companies QC can change drastically (just look at Ford).


Any opinions from Behringer owners here???  (and thanks)

I've been getting to know my DeepMind 12 for the last five months, and the more time I spend programming it, the more impressed I am with its sound. As some others have written, it does have its own character. In fact, I didn't realize how bright and brassy my Tetra sounded until hearing the DM12. IMO, it has a sound akin to the Roland Juno but perhaps not as pronounced. I really like the filter. It reminds me that I'm working with an instrument that has electricity flowing through it. I will say that most of the patches have way too many FX on them. I usually remove them and then add to taste when I have the sound dialed in.

As for the build quality, I've had no problems to date. The DM12 is hefty considering it's size. In this way it also reminds me of an older instrument (especially with its gray finish). I'm not a keyboard player, but the keyboard and aftertouch have performed just fine for me.

I'm very pleased with the DM12. It appears to be a quality instrument and functions quite well as my master controller. Most of all, it sounds really good . . . to the point where I feel I can now sell my Tetra (I've already departed with a Nord Lead 2X and Roland JU-06 since owning the DM12).

[Sacred Synthesis]

The Behringer ARP 2600s are now out and appearing in YouTube videos, although I haven't seen any that are either musically profound or of a decent audio quality.  I could imagine using such a module as a building block for a large monophonic system, but only if this instrument sounds exceptional.  The $1,000 question is, Does it?

[LPF83]

The Behringer ARP 2600s are now out and appearing in YouTube videos, although I haven't seen any that are either musically profound or of a decent audio quality.  I could imagine using such a module as a building block for a large monophonic system, but only if this instrument sounds exceptional.  The $1,000 question is, Does it?

Even with the fidelity loss of Youtube audio, usually a synth either grabs my ear or it doesn't.  The times that I've bought synths based on specifications or reviews of others rather than by "ear grab", I've usually been disappointed.

The only Behringer product that has ever grabbed my ear is the Pro-1, and even that had some subtle disappointments playing next to a real Pro One.  Have considered getting a Pro-1 because it is a good value, but would rather see Dave do a proper Pro One reissue.

So far the Behringer 2600 vids I've seen just sound like most other Behringer synths - just missing that something, and not grabbing my ear.  I think Behringer sets a price point they know they can move units at, then designs around that limitation.  I have no plans to get one.

[Sacred Synthesis]

The Behringer ARP 2600s are now out and appearing in YouTube videos, although I haven't seen any that are either musically profound or of a decent audio quality.  I could imagine using such a module as a building block for a large monophonic system, but only if this instrument sounds exceptional.  The $1,000 question is, Does it?

Even with the fidelity loss of Youtube audio, usually a synth either grabs my ear or it doesn't.  The times that I've bought synths based on specifications or reviews of others rather than by "ear grab", I've usually been disappointed.

The only Behringer product that has ever grabbed my ear is the Pro-1, and even that had some subtle disappointments playing next to a real Pro One.  Have considered getting a Pro-1 because it is a good value, but would rather see Dave do a proper Pro One reissue.

So far the Behringer 2600 vids I've seen just sound like most other Behringer synths - just missing that something, and not grabbing my ear.  I think Behringer sets a price point they know they can move units at, then designs around that limitation.  I have no plans to get one.

Yeah, I agree.  Even though a YouTube video could never do justice to an original recording, still, you can get a sense that an instrument does have a high quality tone.  A video isn't accurate, but it's enough for an estimation.  And so far, Behringer's Odyssey sounds better than the 2600.  I hope that isn't the actually case.

Incidentally, I've never heard a DSI/Sequential instrument that I didn't think sounded fantastic.  Here, I'm always confident I'll be getting something I love.

[Sacred Synthesis]

All the brain-bashing techno videos offer no sense of the instrument.  This demonstration video of the oscillators tells me more than all the others.  The ARP sound is not an immense sound, so it shouldn't be compared to the Moog standard.  With the resonance turned up, it gets rather thin.  But it can have a sweet quality that's excellent for melody.  I just wish someone would post a video of a keyboard controller actually being played with some feeling and without other distracting sounds.



There are plenty of sonic distractions in this one, too, but you can get sonic sense of the 2600's character underneath it all.



And for what it's worth, a comparison with the original.  There's a decent brass patch at about 12:00.

[Sacred Synthesis]

At Sweetwater:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Behr2600--behringer-2600-analog-semi-modular-synthesizer

[LPF83]

At Sweetwater:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Behr2600--behringer-2600-analog-semi-modular-synthesizer

Normally I don't let "product politics" enter into my gear purchase decisions, but I find the actions of Uli B. and company (everything from trademarking Oberheim to suing DSI over Tony K. posting his opinion on) so incredibly offensive that I find myself willing to go far out of my way to avoid buying anything they sell, even if they ever do produce a truly quality product.  Not knocking anyone else's interests of course.... but I do encourage every synth fan to study up on some of the things this company has done.

[Sacred Synthesis]

Yeah, I feel the same way, as do many people on this forum.  I just happen to be an extreme admirer of the ARP 2600, and I could never have afforded Korg's re-issue.  Plus, there's a certain feeling of old-fashioned company loyalty towards Sequential.  It's nice to dream a little, though.

One issue that complicates the matter is that the old DSI used to produce such superb and relatively inexpensive synthesizer modules, but they obviously don't any longer.  I still have a dream of creating a masterful mono synth, and the 2600 would be perfect for the project - two of them, that is.  I do wish Sequential would return to such instruments.  A Pro 3 module would be a great place to start, but sadly it's unlikely.

[LPF83]

Yeah, I feel the same way, as do many people on this forum.  I just happen to be an extreme admirer of the ARP 2600, and I could never have afforded Korg's re-issue.  Plus, there's a certain feeling of old-fashioned company loyalty towards Sequential.  It's nice to dream a little, though.

One issue that complicates the matter is that the old DSI used to produce such superb and relatively inexpensive synthesizer modules, but they obviously don't any longer.  I still have a dream of creating a masterful mono synth, and the 2600 would be perfect for the project - two of them, that is.  I do wish Sequential would return to such instruments.  A Pro 3 module would be a great place to start, but sadly it's unlikely.

Software never quite captures the soul of  hardware, but if you want to scratch a 2600 itch on the cheap, check out CA2600 by Cherry Audio.  It's only $25, it sounds great, and I'm more a knob guy than a patch cable guy so I can't compare it to a real 2600, but having owned a Juno 106 in the past I can say their DC-106 plugin (also only $25) probably does a better Juno 106 than even modern Roland emulations.  It will consume a bit of CPU in the process, but Roland cloud does that too.

https://cherryaudio.com/instruments/ca2600