OS updates / Flaky encoders

Wmacky · « **on:** December 05, 2017, 07:06:20 AM »

Can anyone tell me if the OS updates related to the controls are mainly for the potentiometers or encoders? I seem to have encoder issues on this new REV. The encoders will either skip over a valve, or not register a click. about 1 in 5 clicks? Reading past post seem to indicate this is not correct behavior.

My new REv has FW 1.06 which I know includes the first "controller" update. Are any of the later updates "encoder" specific, or do they only address the "pots"?

extempo · « **Reply #1 on:** December 05, 2017, 10:33:31 AM »

You'll find your answer in the change log in the "newest OS" thread sticked to the top of this forum. All changes are listed here for everyone to see.

http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,1531.0.html

creativespiral · « **Reply #2 on:** December 05, 2017, 11:18:33 AM »

If you have an encoder issue that isn't fixed by using the latest O.S., just contact DSI support and they can troubleshoot / get you hooked up with a fix. I had an issue when I first got my Rev2 and they quickly sent me a new replacement board for the encoders in question... I did the swap out at home in about 20 minutes and everything has been perfect since.

Wmacky · « **Reply #3 on:** December 05, 2017, 04:03:45 PM »

Thanks everyone. Looks like there was one additional encoder tweak above my OS. I just updated to the latest OS, and I'm calibrating at the moment. I shall soon see.

Wmacky · « **Reply #4 on:** December 05, 2017, 04:15:21 PM »

Well. it didn't fix anything. I'm kinda disappointed as I though this issue had been resolved months ago, and I wouldn't have to deal with this. This was my only worry during purchase, and sure enough here we are...... The bad news is that the 2 affected encoders are the 2 most used. The valve encoder, and the patch selector encoder.

Just to be certain --- If I slowly click back and forth between 2 values, I observe it sometimes skipping a value, and sometimes doing nothing. I know this is wrong as other encoders won't do that.

Does anyone know where the rear board split is? I have a bad encoder on each side of the screen.

skrohmer · « **Reply #5 on:** December 05, 2017, 09:30:41 PM »

Quote from: Wmacky on December 05, 2017, 04:15:21 PM

Does anyone know where the rear board split is? I have a bad encoder on each side of the screen.

The split is at the right side of the sequencer section, the right board begins with SUB OCTAVE and OSC MIX. So your encoders are located on only one board.

AlainHubert · « **Reply #6 on:** December 05, 2017, 09:33:00 PM »

Quote from: Wmacky on December 05, 2017, 04:15:21 PM

Well. it didn't fix anything. I'm kinda disappointed as I though this issue had been resolved months ago, and I wouldn't have to deal with this. This was my only worry during purchase, and sure enough here we are...... The bad news is that the 2 affected encoders are the 2 most used. The valve encoder, and the patch selector encoder.

Just to be certain --- If I slowly click back and forth between 2 values, I observe it sometimes skipping a value, and sometimes doing nothing. I know this is wrong as other encoders won't do that.

Does anyone know where the rear board split is? I have a bad encoder on each side of the screen.

Well, it's been two days now that I've received my brand new REV2-16 keyboard, and I've updated the OS to the latest available firmware revision. And the two encoders "value and "parameter" are very "jumpy", and exhibit the same behavior as on yours. If I slowly go forward, one click at a time, they will skip sometimes and sometimes nothing happens. If I go back and forth between two positions, instead of showing always the same two values, it jumps around.
Brand new out-of-the-box and already encoder problems... I have a feeling of déjà-vu from DSI (Prophet08 encoder nightmare anyone?). It might have something to do with the "accelerated" feature that will rapidly move through values when turned rapidly ? Unless the encoders are bad from the start ?

My OB6 is starting to show the same behavior on some of its encoders, but it goes away after several turns (probably some oxidation creeping in on the internal contacts ?). But on the REV2 it doesn't go away, unfortunately, and I doubt very much that there is oxidation on brand new encoders.

Wmacky · « **Reply #7 on:** December 06, 2017, 05:27:19 AM »

Bummer-

I've opened a support case, and hope to hear back soon. I would have been happier with all pots and no encoders.

Razmo · « **Reply #8 on:** December 06, 2017, 05:31:40 AM »

I do not have this issue except on the Program encoder... but in my case it works fine when going clockwise, but counter clockwise, it takes two steps once in a while.... I've always hated encoders because of this, and I frantically do not have anything but bad experience with encoders on ANY synth I've had (and that is A LOT!)...

Razmo · « **Reply #9 on:** December 06, 2017, 05:56:38 AM »

I've also had problems when my REV2 is hooked up to a computer that echo MIDI data back to the REV2 (with local set to OFF)... this makes the behavior when changing programs VERY erratic... especially with fast encoder turns, where the program number seems to still change even after I've let go of the encoder for half a second...

Morgenspaziergang · « **Reply #10 on:** December 06, 2017, 08:32:05 AM »

You new cats having issues with your encoders , maybe you have an early serial number which may have been in a certain batch of boards, and in this case you may need a board swap.

Only want to know is to directly contact support so they can help troubleshoot right away.

Wmacky · « **Reply #11 on:** December 06, 2017, 11:29:05 AM »

Quote from: Morgenspaziergang on December 06, 2017, 08:32:05 AM

You new cats having issues with your encoders , maybe you have an early serial number which may have been in a certain batch of boards, and in this case you may need a board swap.

Only want to know is to directly contact support so they can help troubleshoot right away.

Could be. My OS version was 1.0.6.5 I did contact support, but still haven't heard anything yet

Wmacky · « **Reply #12 on:** December 06, 2017, 06:30:37 PM »

AlainHubert, I sent you a PM

Wmacky · « **Reply #13 on:** December 07, 2017, 04:03:27 PM »

Looks like they will let me change out both board myself. I had to pay a $200 returnable deposit, and I'm good with that is it resolves the issue. The other option was to return the boards for repair, but I didn't want to go that route.

BTW my SN on the 8 voice is 00462. I don't know if that makes it an older unit or fresh new stock?

Morgenspaziergang · « **Reply #14 on:** December 08, 2017, 06:42:08 AM »

I ordered the rev 2 16 voice in June as soon as it was able to be ordered from sweetwater. The serial number is 00587. I’d say your unit is old stock considering i got this one in July fresh out of the oven,,,

AlainHubert · « **Reply #15 on:** December 08, 2017, 11:10:09 PM »

Mine is serial 01330 and is also suffering from at least one flaky encoder, the Parameter one, (as confirmed by DSI support after I've sent them a video of the erratic behavior at their request). They offered me a few options to deal with the issue. One of them was satisfactory to me.
I got a very quick response from DSI support, and they've been very helpful so far. We'll see how it goes from here.

Wmacky · « **Reply #16 on:** December 26, 2017, 07:16:30 PM »

I swapped out the replacement control board today and found that the same patch select encoder is even worse. This one can go several clicks with out responding, then go several clicks skipping a patch on EVERY click. What a wast of time. I'm going to have to take it all apart again, and put the original board back in and call it a day. I HATE encoders.

AlainHubert · « **Reply #17 on:** December 26, 2017, 10:46:43 PM »

Quote from: Wmacky on December 26, 2017, 07:16:30 PM

I swapped out the replacement control board today and found that the same patch select encoder is even worse. This one can go several clicks with out responding, then go several clicks skipping a patch on EVERY click. What a wast of time. I'm going to have to take it all apart again, and put the original board back in and call it a day. I HATE encoders.

Sorry to read that. It's a bummer.

I'm an electronic hobbyist and after contacting DSI support and agreed on doing the encoder replacement myself (not the whole board, just the faulty encoder removal/replacement for which I have the necessary equipment and knowhow) I've received two new replacement encoders from DSI late last week, to swap the defective one with. But now that I've read your report, I'm hesitating to go ahead and perform the removal of 39 plastic knobs, 24 screws, to access it, desolder it, install the new one, solder it in place, and rescrewing 24 screws, putting back 39 plastic knobs, as shown on the link below provided by DSI, if the result could be possibly even worse:
https://www.davesmithinstruments.com/prophet-rev2-keyboard-right-panel-removal/

$:-\$
I think I'll wait for now, because the defective behavior is manageable. My defective encoder (Parameter) does skip a couple of values sometimes, and occasionally doesn't do anything for one step, but it still seems to work better than the ones on your replacement board.

I find it curious that DSI would have such (hidden) pages handy on their server (there is also one for the left panel removal), as if they were already expecting problems with some of their REV2s maybe ?

BTW, the 2 new encoders are really small and feel rather cheap, even compared to the one in my Behringer Deepmind 12 which is working flawlessly at any speed (and even has a smoother action).
I'm surprised that DSI didn't test the replacement board that they've sent you before shipping it...

I also really hate mechanical/electrical digital encoders

, unless they're optical like a computer mouse scroll wheel.

Wmacky · « **Reply #18 on:** December 27, 2017, 12:43:41 AM »

Strange - The instructions I got were for both panels, but with no OLED instructions! ( I figured it out though)

https://www.davesmithinstruments.com/prophet-rev2-keyboard-panel-boards-removal/

I just got the old board back in and now I'm happier with how that encoder works compared how bad it was with that replacement board. THe encoder is an Alps, but appears to be a cheaper models with only a 30,000 actuation life span.

Wmacky · « **Reply #19 on:** January 03, 2018, 05:55:48 PM »

DSI is sending me another board so they are certainly trying to rectify the issue. AlainHubert - Did you decide to solder in those encoders? If so I'm curious of the results? I have considered that option as a statistically better option( 2 encoder gamble rather than rolling the dice on 32 of them! My issue is that I would not feel comfortable replacing them without purchasing a rework station. I'm a poor "desolder" with just a iron alone!