NAMM 2018

Shaw

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Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #60 on: January 17, 2018, 05:40:29 PM »
Paul’s right.  And I can’t wait to HEAR it.  My OB-6 doesn’t have the modulation capabilities of a lot of synths out there, but I love the sound... at the end of the day, that’s what it is all about.
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa
| Linnstrument | Suhr Custom Modern | Mayones Jaba Custom | Godin Multiac Nylon | Roland TD-50 | Synergy Guitar Amps | Eventide Effects Galore |

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #61 on: January 17, 2018, 06:03:57 PM »
Three comments by people who actually used prototypes from a current discussion on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/7r48pa/korg_prologue_namm_2018/):

On the digital side:
Quote
The prologue offers an open API (Application Programming Interface) that allows to customize and extends the capabilities of the multi-engine and digital effects. It provides 16 user oscillator slots and 16 user effect slots, and you can use the dedicated librarian software (expected to be available for downloading around early spring 2018) to create your very own oscillators and effect programs, and load them into prologue. What types of sound will you create by combining the expanded digital oscillators with analog synthesis? You can create original programs and share code to participate in the user community. Start with sample code provided by KORG. The prologue belongs to you.
And:
Quote
This is a open-source mode in which you can build your own user oscillator. Stock, it defaults to a morphing wavetable. I can’t say much more at this time, but it is AWESOME. The effects algorithms are also open source and user editable.

On the sparse modulation side and general impression:
Quote
we got one in our office last week. win: it sounds fucking amazing - bi-timbral engine means 4 x VCOs + 2 x digital osc = IMMENSE. Best sounding synth i've played since i had a Pro One. It's a big full size synth, build quality is excellent, the effects sound very nice
bummer: 1 LFO with minimal routing options, no sequencer, no aftertouch. Expecially the 1 LFO, that's crazy to me. Having said that, i'm not really someone that digs too far into modulation routings and don't really need the capabilities of something like the DSI REV2, I prefer classic synth sounds

Not really because of the latter comment, but rather with regard to the general design philosophy of the Prologue's analog side, I do think that this synth might be more aimed at prospective Prophet-6/OB-6 customers, not so much prospective Rev2 customers.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 06:09:59 PM by Paul Dither »

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #62 on: January 17, 2018, 06:10:00 PM »
Three comments by people who actually used prototypes from a current discussion on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/7r48pa/korg_prologue_namm_2018/):

On the digital side:
Quote
The prologue offers an open API (Application Programming Interface) that allows to customize and extends the capabilities of the multi-engine and digital effects. It provides 16 user oscillator slots and 16 user effect slots, and you can use the dedicated librarian software (expected to be available for downloading around early spring 2018) to create your very own oscillators and effect programs, and load them into prologue. What types of sound will you create by combining the expanded digital oscillators with analog synthesis? You can create original programs and share code to participate in the user community. Start with sample code provided by KORG. The prologue belongs to you.
And:
Quote
This is a open-source mode in which you can build your own user oscillator. Stock, it defaults to a morphing wavetable. I can’t say much more at this time, but it is AWESOME. The effects algorithms are also open source and user editable.

On the sparse modulation side and general impression:
Quote
we got one in our office last week. win: it sounds fucking amazing - bi-timbral engine means 4 x VCOs + 2 x digital osc = IMMENSE. Best sounding synth i've played since i had a Pro One. It's a big full size synth, build quality is excellent, the effects sound very nice
bummer: 1 LFO with minimal routing options, no sequencer, no aftertouch. Expecially the 1 LFO, that's crazy to me. Having said that, i'm not really someone that digs too far into modulation routings and don't really need the capabilities of something like the DSI REV2, I prefer classic synth sounds

Not only because of the latter comment, but more so with regard to the general design philosophy of the Prologue's analog side, I do think that this synth might be more aimed at prospective Prophet-6/OB-6 customers, not so much prospective Rev2 customers.

Or those that wanted a PolyEvolver replacement, though the comments also allude to the fact that it has a 2-pole filter (as with the Monologue, OB-6 and as a setting on the REV2 and Evolver); provided that it cleans up when you're not overdriving it, that might make it a very interesting option.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 06:13:02 PM by DavidDever »
Sequential / DSI stuff: Prophet-6 Keyboard with Yorick Tech LFE, Prophet 12 Keyboard, Mono Evolver Keyboard, Split-Eight, Six-Trak, Prophet 2000

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #63 on: January 17, 2018, 06:15:14 PM »
Or those that wanted a PolyEvolver replacement.

For a complete PolyEvolver replacement, the modulation options are too limited. The digital oscillator seems to be more flexible on the Prologue, but the overall mod matrix is not comparable with the Evolver design. So I think it's still up to DSI to solve that task and to come up with a proper Evolver successor.  ;)

Nevertheless, the Evolver was mentioned quite a bit in Prologue threads.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 06:17:31 PM by Paul Dither »

Shaw

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Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #64 on: January 17, 2018, 06:25:25 PM »
Curious that Korg would choose to release information about a new product in a way that doesn’t include their own website.  What happened to the good old days? Announce a new synth on your website, post some pics, post some sounds, post some videos... easy peasey....
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa
| Linnstrument | Suhr Custom Modern | Mayones Jaba Custom | Godin Multiac Nylon | Roland TD-50 | Synergy Guitar Amps | Eventide Effects Galore |

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #65 on: January 17, 2018, 06:26:18 PM »
Curious that Korg would choose to release information about a new product in a way that doesn’t include their own website.  What happened to the good old days? Announce a new synth on your website, post some pics, post some sounds, post some videos... easy peasey....

It just leaked via a French synth forum.

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #66 on: January 17, 2018, 06:33:26 PM »
Expecially the 1 LFO, that's crazy to me. Having said that, i'm not really someone that digs too far into modulation routings and don't really need the capabilities of something like the DSI REV2, I prefer classic synth sounds.

So a whopping two LFO's puts one outside the classic synth sound category?  Personally, two is the bare minimum, even for monophonic patches.  If a synthesizer cannot offer simultaneous pulse width modulation and vibrato at different rates, then one of the most basic of basic patches is impossible.  That's a standard that I find necessary, and it's one of the reasons I didn't care for the Moog Voyager.  One of its audio oscillators was constantly being sacrificed to serve as a second LFO.  It made one of the Voyager's immense advantages over the old Model D - that of having PWM, rather than several selected pulse widths - only occasionally helpful.

The Prologue does otherwise seem like a decent instrument.  I'll be interested to hear its raw sound.  I actually have good feelings towards Korg, since I have fond memories of owning two Korg synthesizers when I was very young.  But for someone who has an eight-voice Poly Evolver and a Prophet '08/Rev 2, it does seem rather uneventful.  I won't expect it to come even close to the glorious sound of my PEK+PER pair.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 06:44:00 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #67 on: January 17, 2018, 06:41:52 PM »
Expecially the 1 LFO, that's crazy to me. Having said that, i'm not really someone that digs too far into modulation routings and don't really need the capabilities of something like the DSI REV2, I prefer classic synth sounds.

So a whopping two LFO's puts one outside the classic synth sound category?  Personally, two is the bare minimum, even for monophonic patches.  If a synthesizer cannot offer simultaneous pulse width modulation and vibrato at different rates, then one of the most basic of basic patches is impossible.  That's a standard that I find necessary, and it's one of the reasons I didn't care for the Moog Voyager.  One of the audio oscillators was constantly being sacrificed for LFO purposes.

However, this Prologue does otherwise seem like a decent instrument.

Now it looks as if I said what you quoted from the statement I quoted.  ;)

I agree with your point, which is why the absence of aftertouch is such a great omission, as it can compensate for that aspect. Even with also just one LFO, the P-6 and the OB-6 are far more flexible than the Prologue in the analog realm.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 06:55:16 PM by Paul Dither »

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #68 on: January 17, 2018, 06:49:53 PM »
I agree with your point, which is why the absence of aftertouch is such a great omission, as it can compensate for that aspect. Even with also just one LFO, the P-6 and the OB-6 are far more flexible than the Prologue in the analog realm.

And I agree with your agreement with me.  Aftertouch would be the most obvious compensation.  That puts the P-6 and OB-6 ahead of the Prologue, except regarding voice count.  The next question is, can an envelope or other parameter be used to delay a modulation, such as a vibrato/tremolo?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 06:53:01 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #69 on: January 17, 2018, 06:57:09 PM »
I agree with your point, which is why the absence of aftertouch is such a great omission, as it can compensate for that aspect. Even with also just one LFO, the P-6 and the OB-6 are far more flexible than the Prologue in the analog realm.

And I agree with your agreement with me.  Aftertouch would be the most obvious compensation.  That puts the P-6 and OB-6 ahead of the Prologue, except regarding voice count.  The next question is, can an envelope or other parameter be used to delay a modulation, such as a vibrato/tremolo?

You were quicker than me. I was about to add that to my post below. Korg's product specialist added in the above mentioned Reddit thread: "There is an entire effects unit dedicated to modulation that can do the type of pitch modulation you can get from the Minilogue, freeing Prologue’s LFO up for additional modulation." So there seems to be an option to free up the single LFO. The person he responded to was basically bringing up your case (vibrato + some other kind of modulation). So there seems to be a virtual layer to this synth that allows for some customization.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 06:59:52 PM by Paul Dither »

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #70 on: January 17, 2018, 07:00:59 PM »
I would find a single digital oscillator rather stiff.  If there's one thing that warms up nicely an icy cold digital wave shape, it's a second icy cold digital wave shape to beat alongside it.  When designing a digital pad on the PEK, I always feel the need to enrich its tone with a generous amount of oscillator beating, including from two analog triangles.  But one digital oscillator?  Brrr!
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 07:02:40 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #71 on: January 17, 2018, 07:04:54 PM »
Korg's product specialist added in the above mentioned Reddit thread: "There is an entire effects unit dedicated to modulation that can do the type of pitch modulation you can get from the Minilogue, freeing Prologue’s LFO up for additional modulation." So there seems to be an option to free up the single LFO. The person he responded to was basically bringing up your case (vibrato + some other kind of modulation). So there seems to be a virtual layer to this synth that allows for some customization.

That's intriguing, alright.  I'll just have to wait and see what it is.  I guess I've gotten skeptical from all the commercial hoopla over the years.  You know...it's the Behringer effect.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 07:07:10 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #72 on: January 17, 2018, 07:07:10 PM »
I would find a single digital oscillator rather stiff.  If there's one thing that warms up nicely an icy cold digital wave shape, it's a second icy cold digital wave shape to beat alongside it.  When designing a digital pad on the PEK, I always feel the need to enrich its tone with a generous amount of oscillator beating, including from two analog triangles.  But one digital oscillator?  Brrr!

It's a bitimbral synth, so maybe layering two patches that only feature digital oscillators would be the simple solution. It is also said to contain the ensemble effect of the PolySix, so that could help as well.

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #73 on: January 17, 2018, 07:08:22 PM »
Korg's product specialist added in the above mentioned Reddit thread: "There is an entire effects unit dedicated to modulation that can do the type of pitch modulation you can get from the Minilogue, freeing Prologue’s LFO up for additional modulation." So there seems to be an option to free up the single LFO. The person he responded to was basically bringing up your case (vibrato + some other kind of modulation). So there seems to be a virtual layer to this synth that allows for some customization.

That's intriguing, alright.  I'll just have to wait and see what it is.  I guess I've gotten skeptical from all the commercial hoopla over the years.  You know...it's the Behringer effect.

Hehe. At least this doesn't seem to be vaporware.

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #74 on: January 17, 2018, 07:12:17 PM »
It's a bitimbral synth, so maybe layering two patches that only feature digital oscillators would be the simple solution. It is also said to contain the ensemble effect of the PolySix, so that could help as well.

True, but of course, that would cut the voice count in half.  And personally, I don't go for substituting a second oscillator with an effect.  It just isn't nearly the same.  So, we're already working out compromises here meant to make the Prologue serviceable.  It doesn't look promising in my case. Maybe this is a synthesizer for you guys, but I'd say I'm out.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 07:27:37 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #75 on: January 17, 2018, 07:22:41 PM »
It's a bitimbral synth, so maybe layering two patches that only feature digital oscillators would be the simple solution. It is also said to contain the ensemble effect of the PolySix, so that could help as well.

True, but of course, that would cut the voice count in half.  And personally, I don't go for substituting a second oscillator with an effect.  It just isn't nearly the same.  So, we're already working out compromises here meant to make the prologue serviceable.  It doesn't look promising in my case. Maybe this is a synthesizer for you guys, but I'd say I'm out.

Well, so far everything that concerns its sound is mere speculation. And that this won't replace an Evolver setup is pretty obvious I think - that's simply not what the Prologue tries to be. It just happens to be one of the rare synths with a hybrid front end, that's about where the similarities end. Whether the Prologue is serviceable depends on individual needs. Either way, I'm sure it's objectively not going to be unusable, unless the keys are glued in one position and knob settings have no consequences.

Shaw

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Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #76 on: January 17, 2018, 07:27:22 PM »
Maybe this is a synthesizer for you guys, but I'd say I'm out.
Let’s hear it first. Though it may not impress “on paper”, the oscillators and filters may sound like butter and silk.  Let’s hear it.
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa
| Linnstrument | Suhr Custom Modern | Mayones Jaba Custom | Godin Multiac Nylon | Roland TD-50 | Synergy Guitar Amps | Eventide Effects Galore |

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #77 on: January 17, 2018, 07:29:56 PM »
Whether the Prologue is serviceable depends on individual needs. Either way, I'm sure it's objectively not going to be unusable, unless the keys are glued in one position and knob settings have no consequences.

Right.  It's not for my purposes, that's all.  But it did look interesting at first.  I'll keep an eye on it for now, but I've got better things to anticipate.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 07:35:39 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

LoboLives

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #78 on: January 17, 2018, 08:04:12 PM »
Hmm I’ll have to process this. It looks good, seems like it’s capable but it’s still too early to tell. I hate the color, they really should have stuck with the silver from the Minilogue. It would have given it its own character...instead it just seems sort of like a copy of a DSI synth. What makes the Prologue stand out?

It doesn’t really seem that unique or frankly even that powerful when it’s put against the REV2. Also why limit the keys on the eight voice version?

I mean I wasn’t expecting anything mindblowing but this just sort of seems boring. Like I said though too early to tell.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 08:37:15 PM by LoboLives »

LoboLives

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #79 on: January 17, 2018, 08:50:17 PM »
It's not simply the look, it's everything from the pricing structure to polyphony. Plus this appears to be exactly like what everyone was speculating it would be, which leads me to believe they're listening closely. Seems real calculated, but a step in the right direction regardless.

Edit: Although they didn't get LoboLives' incessant memo about multitimbrality...   ;)

Yeah when someone says “mindblowing” I sort of expected to have my mind blown.

I told everyone here that they would simply copy the REV2 and put a Korg sticker on it...and that’s what we more or less got give or take.