complementary analog / digital effects

[lcbzh29]

Hello

we can only use one effect per layer on the rev, that will advise you as additional analog or digital effects to add to the prophet (pedal, rack, reverb, chorus, delay ...multi effects)

Thank you for your answers
LCBZH29

[skrohmer]

Yes

BTW: What is the question?

[lcbzh29]

Yes

BTW: What is the question?

AND...??

[skrohmer]

BTW: What is the question?

Sorry, I did not find any question to which you want an answer. I agree, if you need more effects you will have to use external ones.

[Gerry Havinga]

Hello

we can only use one effect per layer on the rev, that will advise you as additional analog or digital effects to add to the prophet (pedal, rack, reverb, chorus, delay ...multi effects)

Thank you for your answers
LCBZH29

You can indeed only use one effect per layer on the Rev2. In my case I often find the on-board effects on the Rev2 sufficient for what I want to achieve. I find the core (oscillators) sound of the Rev2 very good en very musical, sometimes effects are overkill.

In case I do want some additional effects I mostly use a Lexicon MX400 unit. The advantage of the Lexicon is that it has two independent stereo effect channels. I can route each layer of the Rev2 independently into the MX400 channels and assign different effects to each layer.

I hope this is an answer to your question, the choice of words you used in your first comment in this threat is not entirely clear.

I am trying to create a "shimmer"  like effect using the MX400, but that is a bit more difficult than I thought. There is a pitch shift effect build into the MX400 but it doesn't play very nicely with the build in hall-room-reverb(s). I did achieve a reasonable effect sound using the following serial effect trail:
mono delay on the Rev2 --> pitch shift one octave on the MX400 --> large hall reverb on the MX400
It sounds OK but not quite what I wanted.

[Montyrivers]

Yes

BTW: What is the question?

I think he's asking, in lieu of the serviceable effects block in the Rev 2, what external ones do we use.

I use the Rev 2 with a DAW so I have a lot of plugins I like for eq, comp and effects, but for the Rev 2 (and other prophet-like synths). I like to use EchoMelt from PsyMod.  It's a really good multi with delay, chorus, parametric eq, and a really useful tape saturation and pitch shifter.  It's marketed toward people who are obsessed with lo-fi era stuff but It's also inexpensive and has a pretty warm character. 

[Razmo]

I generally do Ambient music, so I need a reverb of a VERY high quality on most of what I do... something that very few synthesizers have built in.... thus I use a Lexicon - PCM92 for setting the space environment for the score I'm doing.

This is actually the most logical way for me because I would need all synths to have the abillity to go through the same reverb to make them all sound like they are coming from the same environment.

This leaves the REV2 Reverb as not much used in my case, even though a reverb on a reverb can be useful... I generally use the build in effects in synths more for modulation purposes... chorus, flanger, phaser etc... as a sound sculpting building block so to speak... delays are nice to have on the synths in this case because that will also put reverb on the delays... again to keep everything in the same environment.

I have one more external FX engine on the "wish list" for the future... an Eventide - Eclipse... mainly because I miss that the PCM92 could do a Shimmer Reverb... (one where a delayed pitch shifted wet reverb signal is fed back into the reverb itself)...

[skrohmer]

OK guys,

Not for Rev2 at the moment, but it can be connected easily if needed: Blofeld and strymon BigSky, Doepfer Dark Energy and ZOOM MS-70CDR. The Lexicon MX400 is indeed on my "gear-to-buy" wishlist. Razmo's gear is high end, looks really fine, so you I think should find something... 

[Razmo]

I had MX400 earlier... a very fine piece of equipment if not one of the best, in the budget range if you want rack-mount gear... it can also be configured in quite a lot af routings, and can have up to four engines running at the same time, and the Reverbs are really good too... I used this one before I got my PCM92... I would choose it again, if I needed a low budget external rackFX.

[lcbzh29]

Hello

we can only use one effect per layer on the rev, that will advise you as additional analog or digital effects to add to the prophet (pedal, rack, reverb, chorus, delay ...multi effects)

Thank you for your answers
LCBZH29

You can indeed only use one effect per layer on the Rev2. In my case I often find the on-board effects on the Rev2 sufficient for what I want to achieve. I find the core (oscillators) sound of the Rev2 very good en very musical, sometimes effects are overkill.

In case I do want some additional effects I mostly use a Lexicon MX400 unit. The advantage of the Lexicon is that it has two independent stereo effect channels. I can route each layer of the Rev2 independently into the MX400 channels and assign different effects to each layer.

I hope this is an answer to your question, the choice of words you used in your first comment in this threat is not entirely clear.

I am trying to create a "shimmer"  like effect using the MX400, but that is a bit more difficult than I thought. There is a pitch shift effect build into the MX400 but it doesn't play very nicely with the build in hall-room-reverb(s). I did achieve a reasonable effect sound using the following serial effect trail:
mono delay on the Rev2 --> pitch shift one octave on the MX400 --> large hall reverb on the MX400
It sounds OK but not quite what I wanted.

sorry for the translation ...... "google translation" ..... I am french and my english is average

And thanks for those answers

[Gerry Havinga]

sorry for the translation ...... "google translation" ..... I am french and my english is average

And thanks for those answers

Pas de problème!

It is great you asked this question, thank you, please keep asking more  .

Edit: last sentence more concise

[Gerry Havinga]

I generally do Ambient music, so I need a reverb of a VERY high quality on most of what I do... something that very few synthesizers have built in.... thus I use a Lexicon - PCM92 for setting the space environment for the score I'm doing.

This is actually the most logical way for me because I would need all synths to have the abillity to go through the same reverb to make them all sound like they are coming from the same environment.

This leaves the REV2 Reverb as not much used in my case, even though a reverb on a reverb can be useful... I generally use the build in effects in synths more for modulation purposes... chorus, flanger, phaser etc... as a sound sculpting building block so to speak... delays are nice to have on the synths in this case because that will also put reverb on the delays... again to keep everything in the same environment.

I have one more external FX engine on the "wish list" for the future... an Eventide - Eclipse... mainly because I miss that the PCM92 could do a Shimmer Reverb... (one where a delayed pitch shifted wet reverb signal is fed back into the reverb itself)...

Thanks Razmo, you gave me the answer in creating a nice shimmer effect using the MX400: like Brian Eno did years ago. Feed the output of effect channel of one layer of the MX400 back into the input of the second layer. So now it looks like this:
Rev2 delay -> MX400 layer 1 large hall --> pitch shift + 1 octave --> MX400 layer 2 large hall --> chorus

This gives me plenty scope in experimentation, I totally forgot my mixer had the ability to do this.

[Montyrivers]

Speaking of pitch shift and reverb, If I watch this thread long enough I wonder if someone will happen along with audio examples of the Rev 2 through an Eventide H9000.

 

[Sleep of Reason]

All the onboard effects fit my needs aside from the most important one, the reverb. Thus I picked up a Boss RV500 that I keep active at all times because it adds an extra dimension to the overall sound.

[James M]

Gerry Havinga:”I am trying to create a "shimmer"  like effect using the MX400, but that is a bit more difficult than I thought.”

*sorry for weird quoting, first forum post*

Using only my Rev2, I used one of the LFO’s to modulate the Reverb in Effects. I assigned the LFO to Param1 of Effects, and with a bit of tweaking of the LFO wave type and values, and both on clock sync, I got a shimmering Reverb effect that I get on my bass guitar when combining 3 stomp boxes: MXR Reverb (on PAD) + BossBassChorus + Boss BB1X (with subtle Overdrive).

Cheers
James Mod...

[Gerry Havinga]

Gerry Havinga:”I am trying to create a "shimmer"  like effect using the MX400, but that is a bit more difficult than I thought.”

*sorry for weird quoting, first forum post*

Using only my Rev2, I used one of the LFO’s to modulate the Reverb in Effects. I assigned the LFO to Param1 of Effects, and with a bit of tweaking of the LFO wave type and values, and both on clock sync, I got a shimmering Reverb effect that I get on my bass guitar when combining 3 stomp boxes: MXR Reverb (on PAD) + BossBassChorus + Boss BB1X (with subtle Overdrive).

Cheers
James Mod...

Wow James, I will try that tonight, thanks for the great tip 

I am getting closer with the MX400 and creating a feedback loop using my Soundcraft mixer. Very easy to blow up the speakers like that, ha ha, great fun anyway ;-). Can make it loop for minutes as long as I carefully choose the correct sound / tone / note to begin with.

[Razmo]

A real shimmer FX is done by taking the WET reverb signal, route it into a pitch shifter (1oct up)... then delay this pitch shifted reverb for some time (to make it gradually introduce itself), and then finally feed this delayed, pitch shifted wet reverb signal, back into the reverb input.

The pitch shifted and delayed signal should NOT be mixed into the main mix, it is only meant to be routed back into the reverb input... with different send levels back into the reverb, the effect will vary in strength.

It does require some tweaking to set it up, if you do not have a dedicated shimmer FX though... a good software plug for the Shimmer FX is Valhalla Shimmer... then you do not need to think about all the routing requirements.

It's impossible to create this using the FX engine in DSI products... not enough FX slots, and routing options at all, it is not even possible doing it with either MX400 or even PCM92... the key is that you need to be able to pitch shift and delay the reverberated signal "off line" (these processes should not get to the main out), and then route it back into the reverb, and this routing is not obtainable in many FX units on their own... they simply do not allow the feedback routing option, and the parallel processing of the wet signal after the reverb.

It can be done using mixer channels with pre AUX sends:

connect the stereo output of your main reverb unit to a single stereo input channel on your mixer.
send a portion of the returned wet reverb via AUX send into another FX processor that can pitch shift the wet reverb and delay it.
connect the wet signal of this FX unit to yet another stereo channel on your mixer, set this channel to be pre fader send, and turn it's volume all the way down so that it does not enter the main mix.
now send a bit of this channel back into the reverb input by using the channels AUX send to the reverb.

That's basically it... but be careful with the controls... there are many possibilities that will lead to ear shattering feedback loops

[James M]

Razmo, Thanks for the excellent description.
Now I know what Boss (with “shimmer” on their Reverb) and MXR (with PAD on theirs) have tried to do. BTW, I have both and the MXR has a less of a digital sound: to my ear, if anyone's interested in a stomp box reverb with this "shimmer" effect.

But for those of us looking for ways to improve the Rev2’s Reverb effect, and drawing from your description, I wonder…
…by layering 2 identical voices with a LFO’ed reverb effect on each, but with one voice being pitch shifted + some delay and slower attack dialled in on its Reverb AMP envelope (courtesy by assigning the Aux Envelope with Env3repeat enabled to the Reverb effect to get that cyclic effect), would this come closer to approaching a “true” shimmer effect? But as you wrote,”The pitch shifted delayed signal should not be mixed into the main mix”. Ah well….

Another, simpler one voice effect, might be try to use LFO4 to modulate LFO3 (where LFO3 is the Reverbs LFO), with LFO4’s cycle timed to give that slightly swelling effect.
Either way, worth shot just to get a new reverb, or two, out of the Rev2.

[Gerry Havinga]

Thanks james and Razmo.

At the moment (hopefully again later tonight) I am experimenting with this setup:

Rev2 signal (dry or delay included) -->
         Aux1 input MX400 layer 1 -->
                 Hall/Arena Reverb + Pitch shift +1 octave -->
                        Aux2 input MX400 layer 2 -->
                                Hall/Arena Reverb + Chorus (or something else) -->
                                       Aux1 input MX400 layer 1 (now there is a loop)

I only add second layer of the MX400 layer 2 to the mix, layer 1 is zeroed and obviously I add some of the Rev2 dry signal.

Putting it all back into the first Aux1 creates a loop between the two layers of the MX400, but it doesn't swell yet. But it can get very loud if I have the feeds into the loop open too much ;-).

 I need someway of putting another delay in there to create a swell ......

More experimenting to do.

[Razmo]

Razmo, Thanks for the excellent description.
Now I know what Boss (with “shimmer” on their Reverb) and MXR (with PAD on theirs) have tried to do. BTW, I have both and the MXR has a less of a digital sound: to my ear, if anyone's interested in a stomp box reverb with this "shimmer" effect.

But for those of us looking for ways to improve the Rev2’s Reverb effect, and drawing from your description, I wonder…
…by layering 2 identical voices with a LFO’ed reverb effect on each, but with one voice being pitch shifted + some delay and slower attack dialled in on its Reverb AMP envelope (courtesy by assigning the Aux Envelope with Env3repeat enabled to the Reverb effect to get that cyclic effect), would this come closer to approaching a “true” shimmer effect? But as you wrote,”The pitch shifted delayed signal should not be mixed into the main mix”. Ah well….

Another, simpler one voice effect, might be try to use LFO4 to modulate LFO3 (where LFO3 is the Reverbs LFO), with LFO4’s cycle timed to give that slightly swelling effect.
Either way, worth shot just to get a new reverb, or two, out of the Rev2.

No... the REV2 cannot produce a shimmer FX this way... you would have to be able to route the reverb signal (pitch shifted and delayed) back into the input of the reverb fx.. there is no way to do this, and having a second layer with a pitch shifted sound is not of any use because each layer has it's own separate FX engine... you have no way of routing the FX output of a layer to the input of the FX for the other layer... though this could actually be a fun Feature Request, if the hardware design would allow for it... but still, without a dedicated pitch shift FX, it will not be doable... the REV2 will need an FX engine with at least 3 FX slots per Layer, plus feedback routing options and much more advanced routing options of the FX slots.

For the real shimmer FX, you will simply need an external FX box ... besides, I find this ok because I like to put Reverb on my programs as external FX, leaving the FX slots in the REV2 for more modulation style FX and delays.