On the fence...

[The Man Machine]

Hi guys,

Had my mind set on a Moog Sub37 but then the REV2 got my attention. Watched some videos and must say it is a contender.

Are there any quircks to know about before taking the plunge? I am aware the Moog and DSI sound differently but they both have a lot to offer. The Moog may have a better sequencer but the DSI is multitimbral etc.

It itsn't about which is better, they are both great synths to my ear.

Any input would be appreciated TIA.

Mike

[Chimponaut]

I have both (Original Sub37) and they are indeed very different. So different I can't see how one could replace the other. However, I was in line for a Sem Pro for months and months but opted for the Rev2 when I couldn't take the wait any longer. Another month has passed and they still aren't available. So what do I know.

I would say this, the Sub 37 is a great controller for other knobby stuff. It lets you save different controller maps where you can change the CC or NRPN per knob and button and save that setup per preset. Absolutely killer. On the other hand, the keybed on the Rev2 is vastly superior to the original Sub 37 keybed, not only in octave count but also the velocity response/playability etc.

Both are great synths to be sure.

[dsetto]

Although it's the most obvious criteria, I think it ultimately depends on whether you prefer a 2-voice paraphonic or polyphonic instrument. And sometimes, the thing you think is less desirable is actually the better call. Or, ultimately, your instincts were right.

Do you want help in deciding duo-paraphonic vs polyphonic? Did you play both of them? Did one move you more, right away?

[The Man Machine]

Thanks guys for the quick responses.

Either synth would be an addition to my Jupiter 50 and M32.

Imho a monophonic/paraphonic synth is something for bass, leads and FX sounds not so much for soundscaping on its own.

Stand alone the DSI would for me be the obvious choice, but already having some basic gear is where it gets a bit more complicated.

Noodled with the Sub37 in store but the DSI I haven't.

[aeonn]

I have both the Sub37 and Rev2.

The Sub37 is great for :
- raw sounds
- filter sweep (great ladder filter with different slopes)
- leads
- bass (obviously !)
- sequences : maybe on of the best in built sequencer on a synth.
- textural sounds / sound design

The Rev2 is great for:
- polyphony of course
- pads
- evolving sounds
- chords
- Unisson ! Man when you stack up to 8 voices in Unisson it sounds MASSIVE, so imagine when you stack the 16 voices...(you get a beefy sound already when using more than 1 voice though)
- filter that sits very well in a mix (requires less work than Moog imo) although it seems that some people don’t like the Curtis filter. Anyway it sounds good to me.
- modulation
- modulation (did I say modulation ?) : seriously the Rev2 is a blast to use because whenever you have an idea you can make it come true thanks to the mod matrix. 8 slots + dedicated modulation assigned to Modwheel, Velocity, Pressure, Expression and Breath. So you actually get more than 8 modulation slots.
- bi timbral so you can stack two presets or split the keyboard for them to be played at the same time.
- effects : some people say the effect section isn’t the best. I personally find it very musical and well fitted for the synth. They have a very good quality for in built effect. (We are not comparing the Deepmind12/TCElectronics effects I know, but the Rev2 really has great effects that are designed towards synth style stuff).
- yes there is a sequencer but the ergonomy isn’t the best. It’s a long battle of tweaking and scrolling through the steps to edit anything which is time consuming and a bit difficult to grasp. The Sub37 definitely wins the sequencer battle.
- best keybed I’ve played on a synth.

Overall, as it’s been said, both synth don’t compare. They are very different instruments that very well complement each other. And don’t take my list too seriously, you can achieve great bass preset with the Rev2 or make crazy modulation on the Sub37 as well. They just have their own limitation and it’s up to you to decide which one suits you the best.
But if you have other question I’d be happy to answer them.
Cheers.

[LoboLives]

I own a Sub 37 and I've tried the REV2. Both fantastic synths...I think for me I'm more partial to the Sub 37 myself. I'm not a huge fan of the REV2 interface. The overall sound of the Moog is more powerful. May not be as featured filled as the REV2 but I always seem to come back to the Sub 37. It almost always finds itself into my compositions. Even non synth oriented stuff.

[jg666]

I'm the opposite of the post above, it's the Rev2 I always return to I've always been disappointed with the standard factory patches that came with the Sub37 if truth be told and due to my inexperience I find it more difficult to get musical sounds out of the Moog. With the Rev2, for me, everything feels and sounds so much better and the factory patches are superb in my opinion.

But, as people have said above, it depends what you want and what you expect from whichever synth you buy as they're different beasts.

[Sacred Synthesis]

Since the Sub 37 can be used only monophonically (alright, paraphonically), whereas the Rev2 can be used both monophonically and polyphonically, the two instruments belong in separate categories.  If you think the Rev2 has a good sound, why even hesitate to choose it over the Sub 37?

[The Man Machine]

Since the Sub 37 can be used only monophonically (alright, paraphonically), whereas the Rev2 can be used both monophonically and polyphonically, the two instruments belong in separate categories.  If you think the Rev2 has a good sound, why even hesitate to choose it over the Sub 37?

Caught in the middle since I already got a polyphonic synth.

Here some samples of sounds I like:

the music is very basic but the sounds (bass at about 00:50 into the song is killer yet I also like the other bleeps going on).

these guys had about every synth on the planet.

not really an idea what gear was used, but it sounds awesome.

[LoboLives]

I'm the opposite of the post above, it's the Rev2 I always return to I've always been disappointed with the standard factory patches that came with the Sub37 if truth be told and due to my inexperience I find it more difficult to get musical sounds out of the Moog. With the Rev2, for me, everything feels and sounds so much better and the factory patches are superb in my opinion.

But, as people have said above, it depends what you want and what you expect from whichever synth you buy as they're different beasts.

Bah you can’t judge a synth from the factory patches...80% of the presets in the Prophet 6 were garbage and that’s my favourite synth. I say if you can go to the store and try both by initializing a blank patch and see how quickly you can create a sound you are after.

[The Man Machine]

I'm the opposite of the post above, it's the Rev2 I always return to I've always been disappointed with the standard factory patches that came with the Sub37 if truth be told and due to my inexperience I find it more difficult to get musical sounds out of the Moog. With the Rev2, for me, everything feels and sounds so much better and the factory patches are superb in my opinion.

But, as people have said above, it depends what you want and what you expect from whichever synth you buy as they're different beasts.

Bah you can’t judge a synth from the factory patches...80% of the presets in the Prophet 6 were garbage and that’s my favourite synth. I say if you can go to the store and try both by initializing a blank patch and see how quickly you can create a sound you are after.

It all depends on what music you have in mind.

Some love the D50 with its presets and I hate that synth. The sound engine doesn't work for me.

[Paul Dither]

Here some samples of sounds I like:

the music is very basic but the sounds (bass at about 00:50 into the song is killer yet I also like the other bleeps going on).

these guys had about every synth on the planet.

not really an idea what gear was used, but it sounds awesome.

Back in the day, Skinny Puppy used a Minimoog, a Pro-One, a Prophet-5, an Ensoniq ESQ-1, and loads of samplers by E-MU, Ensoniq, and Akai. These days, cEvin Key has a Sub 37, a Pro 2, and a Prophet 12 in his arsenal.

On that particular Kraftwerk recording, you'd probably find more iPads and laptops than traditional synths. But the original recordings for Radioactivity featured a Minimoog, an ARP Odyssey (white-faced), and an Orchestron for the choir sounds amongst other stuff.

[The Man Machine]

Here some samples of sounds I like:

the music is very basic but the sounds (bass at about 00:50 into the song is killer yet I also like the other bleeps going on).

these guys had about every synth on the planet.

not really an idea what gear was used, but it sounds awesome.

Back in the day, Skinny Puppy used a Minimoog, a Pro-One, a Prophet-5, an Ensoniq ESQ-1, and loads of samplers by E-MU, Ensoniq, and Akai. These days, cEvin Key has a Sub 37, a Pro 2, and a Prophet 12 in his arsenal.

On that particular Kraftwerk recording, you'd probably find more iPads and laptops than traditional synths. But the original recordings for Radioactivity featured a Minimoog, an ARP Odyssey (white-faced), and an Orchestron for the choir sounds amongst other stuff.

Big Skinny Puppy fan, saw them three times live and even have a pic with Ogre & me on it

The Kraftwerk stuff I thought it probably could/would be a lot of virtual synth stuff.

Saw some of your videos on youtube before I got here

[Paul Dither]

Big Skinny Puppy fan, saw them three times live and even have a pic with Ogre & me on it

The Kraftwerk stuff I thought it probably could/would be a lot of virtual synth stuff.

Saw some of your videos on youtube before I got here

Thanks for watching some videos!

To return to the original question: The songs and styles you were referring to are of course very widespread. And anything in the Skinny Puppy area would of course require a sampler or at least some sort of hybrid synth like the Prophet 12 or Pro 2.

Beyond that, both the Sub 37 and the Rev2 would certainly be adequate choices for what you like. As everybody has already pointed out the obvious differences between both, you should follow your ears. Find a store in which you can try out the Rev2 as well. Go back and forth between it and the Sub 37. Also ask yourself what tasks a new synth should cover for the most part. Is monophonic/paraphonic enough? Which synth just feels better to you? What elements of those you'd like to focus on come across as more convincing in terms of usability (e.g. arpeggiator, sequencer, modulation section, etc.)? And so on.

[The Man Machine]

Big Skinny Puppy fan, saw them three times live and even have a pic with Ogre & me on it

The Kraftwerk stuff I thought it probably could/would be a lot of virtual synth stuff.

Saw some of your videos on youtube before I got here

Thanks for watching some videos!

To return to the original question: The songs and styles you were referring to are of course very widespread. And anything in the Skinny Puppy area would of course require a sampler or at least some sort of hybrid synth like the Prophet 12 or Pro 2.

Beyond that, both the Sub 37 and the Rev2 would certainly be adequate choices for what you like. As everybody has already pointed out the obvious differences between both, you should follow your ears. Find a store in which you can try out the Rev2 as well. Go back and forth between it and the Sub 37. Also ask yourself what tasks a new synth should cover for the most part. Is monophonic/paraphonic enough? Which synth just feels better to you? What elements of those you'd like to focus on come across as more convincing in terms of usability (e.g. arpeggiator, sequencer, modulation section, etc.)? And so on.

The more REV2 demos I hear the more I lean to it, it is a more complete synth in the sense of 5 octaves, split or layer built in FX and the sequencer has advantages as disadvantages over the Sub. If I figured correctly it can record realtime parameter (say filter sweeps) editing and get that into the sequence.

at 21:40 and 25:48 are the moments I was hoping for.

I really like the thinner sounds it can make, but it can make those big boiiiiiing boiiiiing sounds too

The Moog is like omni present and I read this before can be a bit hard to get into the mix. The DSI so it seems is a bit esasier.

Thanks a lot, yes of course before buying I will noodle on the DSI as well.

There is a lot to play with, 4 LFOs and 3 envelopes...and the rest.

Getting more convinced now that I heard the REV2 can have this bottom end.

[Chimponaut]

If I figured correctly it can record realtime parameter (say filter sweeps) editing and get that into the sequence.

I don't think you can record parameter changes in realtime. Download the manual and check the Seq section.

[MDMA]

I have both and whilst the the moog has a great sound, it’s lack of poly and routing options becomes a pain.

I love that moog sound, so if that’s what you’re after go ahead, however the Rev is much much more than just “that sound”  It can be what you want it to be with mod options a plenty. It’s so much more of a synth than the moog.

I love my moog and use it on everything. I can get it to scream and purr, it’s bass and overall tone is beautiful and fits into my style of music. But the Rev is also featuring on everything and has a MUCH wider pallet and is extensively versatile.

Guess it comes down to what hole it’s gonna fill in your studio. I wouldn’t be without either, but if it came down to the most interesting synth, it would be the Rev. The Moog sound can only go so far and you end up recreating patches that seem to always sound familiar, you don’t get that with the Rev.

[jg666]

The Moog sound can only go so far and you end up recreating patches that seem to always sound familiar, you don’t get that with the Rev.

That's what I was trying to get at in my post but you put it so much better than me Everything I create on the Moog sounds very 'samey'. I will admit though that I'm not the most experienced at creating new patches but I know enough of the basics to know roughly what I'm doing. With the Rev2 I find it much easier to create new stuff that sounds different enough to want to save it.

I still use all my synths but the one I find most interesting to tweak is the Rev2.

[vinnyburns1@mac.com]

I have the Pro 08 mk1 and the Sub37. If I had to choose just one, it would be the Pro 08.

[The Man Machine]

Thanks everybody 

Next week going to noodle a DSI Rev2.

It might leave the store with me 

Also found an avatar that suits my name