Is it possible to force LFO to stay synced to clock for all voices?

[Consigliere]

Is it possible to force LFO to stay synced to clock for all voices?

I’m trying to recreate some of my favourite sounds from a KORG DW8000 which had an MG section (like LFO i guess?) that could control the VCF cutoff so that if I played a chord it would repeat it in time I set in the MG freq. section.

I’m trying to do the same on my REV2 by setting LFO1 to RevSaw and destination cutoff. And no matter how I try the voices (keys I play) will sync in time to it self… Hmm hard to describe… As long as I press the keys in the chord at the same time it works well but if I accidentally strum a chord the repetitions will be strummed as well…

Does my question make sense? Is there another way to get the same result?

Sorry. I’m kind of new to this.

[Consigliere]

Perhaps I intimidated folks with my question. I found something on the forum that, kind of, explain the same thing even if it's a different synth.

http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php?topic=175.0

Is it the same for REV2?

[pmanderson]

On the REV 2 there are (32/64 distinct LFOs).
Ignore the LFOs.
If you use the GATED sequencer and set one of the tracks to FILTER (for example), with a length of 2 steps, you can achieve a 'one LFO-like' behavior. Where the single gate sequence affects the sound.

[Consigliere]

On the REV 2 there are (32/64 distinct LFOs).
Ignore the LFOs.
If you use the GATED sequencer and set one of the tracks to FILTER (for example), with a length of 2 steps, you can achieve a 'one LFO-like' behavior. Where the single gate sequence affects the sound.

Thanks. The synth is new to me so I haven't got started with the sequencers yet. BUT now I tried but still experience the same thing as I did when i used the LFO's... That if I press one of the keys in a chord slightly off in time or strummed, the repetitions of it made by the seq repeat it the same way.

I used Seq1 two steps destination cutoff and a reset on step 3. Tried all of the Modes. Am I missing something?

[Consigliere]

Added a short movie that might give a better explaination of the result im aiming for.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b5y7eif3yaep00k/Fil%202017-11-08%2018%2015%2024.mov?dl=0

[philroyjenkins]

I came across this same issue. The Gated Seq is your answer.

Another trick you could do is set the LFO to any effect parameter since the fx happen over the whole synth and not per voice.

I wanted to achieve a sort of all over warble like vibrato that would effect all notes at the same time and not per voice. I ended up using the mono delay at a full wet mix (so we only hear effected signal) and then sticking an LFO on delay time.

I'm sure you could find some effect parameter to modulate to give you this sort of thing, but the gated seq sounds like it will get you there much faster.

Happy patching!

[Consigliere]

I came across this same issue. The Gated Seq is your answer.

Another trick you could do is set the LFO to any effect parameter since the fx happen over the whole synth and not per voice.

I wanted to achieve a sort of all over warble like vibrato that would effect all notes at the same time and not per voice. I ended up using the mono delay at a full wet mix (so we only hear effected signal) and then sticking an LFO on delay time.

I'm sure you could find some effect parameter to modulate to give you this sort of thing, but the gated seq sounds like it will get you there much faster.

Happy patching!

What settings did you use to get it to work on the gated seq? I couldn't get it to work, as I described a few posts ago. I still got the effect that every note would stay in sync to it self in time and not aligned on the beat in tempo

[panic]

What settings did you use to get it to work on the gated seq? I couldn't get it to work, as I described a few posts ago. I still got the effect that every note would stay in sync to it self in time and not aligned on the beat in tempo

The gated sequencer will not help you, because:

On the REV 2 there are (32/64 distinct LFOs).

you also have 32/64 distinct gated sequencers (4 per voice). If you don't want to use external gear (such as midi/cv LFOs), this is the closest you will get to what you want (as described in the prophet 8 part of the forum):
- turn keysync on for the LFO
- press 8/16 notes simultaneously
- turn keysync off again
You now synchronized the LFOs of the different voices.

[philroyjenkins]

What settings did you use to get it to work on the gated seq? I couldn't get it to work, as I described a few posts ago. I still got the effect that every note would stay in sync to it self in time and not aligned on the beat in tempo

I never actually did this with gate seq. I was going off what I heard from other users. I haven't messed with gated seq much at all. I just tried myself and can confirm, it also appears to be per voice.

An interesting fix DSI could add is giving us a second LPF as an effect. Even if its digital, it would allow us some cool combinations by using two LPF in a patch and it would also allow us to modulate this new filter in a sort of mono way that wouldn't trigger per voice.

Or even an option in misc parameters that would set the LFOS to be truly locked and synced when using click sync.

In the meantime, I'd still say play with LFOS on some of the effects because they are on the master sound output and not per voice.

Experiment a bit and I'm sure you could find something close. Try this real quick. You don't even need LFO.

Use ringmod effect with mix on 100% and both parameters all of the way down. You don't have control over the speed, but its a nice quick and dirty gated style effect.

EDIT: I re-watched the example video you provided and its very possible to achieve this even with the REV2. The playing in that video is pretty lined up. Just set your LFO to whatever you want, turn on key sync and make sure to press keys at the same time and you'll have the effect in that vid.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNfq2nuBfAXPJo_r7pTsJuBDrJetEzaZhnXbqyAebu0xMk6L4EPWKU782sXji2URg?key=SG5nWXFjRjZ1TE1VLWdLUzlBbmJwVGtDM3VWZVpB

I've achieved it here by using a Reverse Saw LFO on cutoff freq. Just key sync it, play in time and your golden.

[philroyjenkins]

also, I just looked into that other thread you posted and this comment address a fix for this that works! Holy crap, I was so surprised at this.

From the Manual:

"Key Sync – When this switch is enabled (lit) the LFO is re-started each time a new note is played. Key Sync is set independently on each LFO."

I always use Key Sync with LFO-generated filter sweeps in polyphonic mode to keep all the notes sweeping at the same time.  Otherwise, it's chaos.

I finally had a chance to play around with this last night. I added a LFO to modulate the cutoff frequency and found ... that the modulation for all of the voices were in sync with each other, no matter when I played them. Strange. That's not the behavior I had seen earlier. Thinking that somehow I might be modulating a global parameter (clearly I wasn't but just in case) I turned key sync on and played notes at different times. The LFOs definitely got out of sync as expected.

Here's the interesting part. When I turned key sync off, the LFOs remained out of sync! This was the Aha! moment. The LFOs are always running (the LEDs are pretty clear that way) and retain their phase when the key sync is off. Since they are digital, their phase is exact. Thus LFOs that are in sync will always remain in sync as long as their frequency is not being modulated somehow.

In my case I had to get a bunch of LFOs that I forced to be out of sync to be back in sync again. Easy. Just turn key sync back on and play an eight-note chord. Then turn key sync off. At that point the LFOs were all back in sync again.

tl;dr -- if you're trying to approximate the Prophet 5's global LFO, you need to get your LFOs in sync by turning key sync on, playing an eight note chord, and turning key sync off again.

[Consigliere]

What settings did you use to get it to work on the gated seq? I couldn't get it to work, as I described a few posts ago. I still got the effect that every note would stay in sync to it self in time and not aligned on the beat in tempo

The gated sequencer will not help you, because:

On the REV 2 there are (32/64 distinct LFOs).

you also have 32/64 distinct gated sequencers (4 per voice). If you don't want to use external gear (such as midi/cv LFOs), this is the closest you will get to what you want (as described in the prophet 8 part of the forum):
- turn keysync on for the LFO
- press 8/16 notes simultaneously
- turn keysync off again
You now synchronized the LFOs of the different voices.

Thanks for your answer. That way somewhat helps but it doesn't take long until they get off sync again. But at least I know a little bit more about the synth now.

I never actually did this with gate seq. I was going off what I heard from other users. I haven't messed with gated seq much at all. I just tried myself and can confirm, it also appears to be per voice.

An interesting fix DSI could add is giving us a second LPF as an effect. Even if its digital, it would allow us some cool combinations by using two LPF in a patch and it would also allow us to modulate this new filter in a sort of mono way that wouldn't trigger per voice.

Or even an option in misc parameters that would set the LFOS to be truly locked and synced when using click sync.

In the meantime, I'd still say play with LFOS on some of the effects because they are on the master sound output and not per voice.

Experiment a bit and I'm sure you could find something close. Try this real quick. You don't even need LFO.

Use ringmod effect with mix on 100% and both parameters all of the way down. You don't have control over the speed, but its a nice quick and dirty gated style effect.

EDIT: I re-watched the example video you provided and its very possible to achieve this even with the REV2. The playing in that video is pretty lined up. Just set your LFO to whatever you want, turn on key sync and make sure to press keys at the same time and you'll have the effect in that vid.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNfq2nuBfAXPJo_r7pTsJuBDrJetEzaZhnXbqyAebu0xMk6L4EPWKU782sXji2URg?key=SG5nWXFjRjZ1TE1VLWdLUzlBbmJwVGtDM3VWZVpB

I've achieved it here by using a Reverse Saw LFO on cutoff freq. Just key sync it, play in time and your golden.

I guess it depends on how exact you want it to be. And it's abit hard with bigger chords using both hands and maybe just some of the fingers need to move between keys in the chord progression. I wouldn't dare to use it live anyway.

But thanks for your big help to making me understand my new friend a little better. I will give up on this mission now unless there is a OSupdate in the future that have this option.

Thanks a lot.

[panic]

That way somewhat helps but it doesn't take long until they get off sync again.

When you say "get off sync", do you mean that the phase difference between the LFO of the different voices changes (phase difference should be constant after you turned keysync off), or do you mean that the LFOs go out of sync with the clock (but remain a constant phase difference (which you tried to set at 0).

If the phase difference of LFO between voices is not constant, it would imply that they don't run at the same speed for the different voices (and if that is the case, you should also be able to hear that when using all voices unison) (and it would not be a good thing).

(by the way, if hitting 16 keys exactly simultaneously to synchronize the LFOs is difficult, you can also just put in in all voice unison, strike one key, then turn unison and keysync off)

[philroyjenkins]

But thanks for your big help to making me understand my new friend a little better. I will give up on this mission now unless there is a OSupdate in the future that have this option.

Thanks a lot.

No problem bud. Rev2 was my first hardsynth. A big part of hardware in my mind is eventually running into these walls of limitations and then somehow working around them or coming up with sounds that are close enough. You might even discover some new stuff along the way you never new you wanted!

Totally agree though that this would be a nice feature if added to an update.

[philroyjenkins]

That way somewhat helps but it doesn't take long until they get off sync again.

When you say "get off sync", do you mean that the phase difference between the LFO of the different voices changes (phase difference should be constant after you turned keysync off), or do you mean that the LFOs go out of sync with the clock (but remain a constant phase difference (which you tried to set at 0).

If the phase difference of LFO between voices is not constant, it would imply that they don't run at the same speed for the different voices (and if that is the case, you should also be able to hear that when using all voices unison) (and it would not be a good thing).

(by the way, if hitting 16 keys exactly simultaneously to synchronize the LFOs is difficult, you can also just put in in all voice unison, strike one key, then turn unison and keysync off)

Wait a minute. I tried it again and they weren't in sync. I forgot that the chord memory is limited to 4 voices apparently. I never noticed it myself until I saw the recent post about it.

OP should use your method instead to make sure all voices are synced. OP, this will definitely work for you and should prove to be more consistent than what I said to do.

-press unison button while holding misc params (this is shortcut to that area in menu)
-turn unison mode to all of your available voices (8 or 16)
-turn on unison
-turn on key sync on lfo then press a note. The lfos are now synced.
-turn off key sync and turn off unison
-this should work exactly like what you are looking for.

The only reason the first way I mentioned didn't work is because even though you held 8+notes and hit chord memory, only 4 of those notes actually made it to the chord and you therefore only synced 4 voices. This pretty much follows the same steps but ensures your triggering all voices (and their attached lfos) when you turn on key sync.

[Consigliere]

Wow you are right guys! I must have messed up pressing 16 keys simultaneously. The UNISON trick was easy. Hopefully there will come a shortcut to do that in the future... It must be a small fix to do that right?

Made a small movie for proof Iphone inside headphone-sound... but still... IT WORKS. YEY

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pv099up4mxie55x/Rev2.mov?dl=0

[dsetto]

I'll assume what tumble2k wrote is true because it sounds reasonable.

Hypothesis:
In the scenario where LFO frequency doesn't change, one can determine LFO cycle start by playing a key in realtime.  (Using hold button or pedal to define all 16 voices.)

... after syncing all start times using Key Sync, ALL-KEY press method.

Do you agree?