Van Halens Jump on Rev 2

jok3r

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Van Halens Jump on Rev 2
« on: October 07, 2017, 12:35:30 AM »
Hello together,

I read somewhere (perhaps in the Prophet 6 Subforum) that the Rev2's architecture is more like the synth's the famous Jump patch was played on, than the Prophet 6. The reason I have in mind is the use of the Curtis filter. Someone said, because of this the Rev2 might do a better Jump patch than the P6.

I'm playing in a classic rock cover band and use only workstation keyboards at the moment (Korg Kronos & Kurzweil PC361 - Both can do a very good Jump patch with their VA engines). For my personal satisfaction I'm looking for an analog poly synth for more than a year now and read this forum daily, because the Rev2 is my favorite at the moment and would actually be affordable for me now.

The Jump patch won't be a deal breaker for me, since I want to do a lot more with this synth than only play cover rock. But it would be a shame if I had to play this patch on my digital workstations, even when there's a real analog poly synth on the stand beside them.

So could some of you program this patch and post videos or recordings of it? Could we do a little jump patch contest? ;-)

(I know - not this shit again... but it's really interesting for me, since i heard a lot of "Jump" patches, that actually were not really good or didn't have the balls to play that in a band. I want to see if this can do a really good Jump patch.)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 12:37:34 AM by jok3r »
Prophet Rev2, Moog Matriarch, Novation Peak, Arturia DrumBrute Impact, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES

Propheteer

Re: Van Halens Jump on Rev 2
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2017, 09:04:45 AM »
Well... sound aside, at least you can actually PLAY jump properly on the Rev2 having 5 octaves. I'll never understand why DSI hampered the OB/P6 with those short keybeds. Total waste of a decent pair of instruments (I prefer the Rev2's sound and power anyway believe it or not). I think there's a preset for 'jump' on board the Rev2 and yes some who've owned obies say it can sound more obie like than the OB-6 at times but of course it's not gonna be like a vintage VCO monster (nor neither is the Prophet 6 or OB-6 VCOS or not they sound quite modern and hard vs real old VCOs in fact the P6 sounds hard and the OB-6 sounds harsh/cold vs the Rev2, which can sound warm/refined as well as dark and moody or sweet and japanese/juno like, which is surprising given their price and spec differences), but close enough for most esp in covers bands.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 09:14:46 AM by Propheteer »

Jason

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Re: Van Halens Jump on Rev 2
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2017, 09:10:59 AM »
I love the old Oberheim sounds and continue to enjoy trying to get them on these analog synthesizers. The '08 and Rev2 do indeed achieve some great Oberheim patches. There is a Jump patch on the Rev2 (Jump!), and the GEOSynths patch set for the Rev2 has one too.

Although the Rev2 Jump patch is a great sounding Oberheim patch (I like what they do with the additional slop setting on that one, which wasn't possible on the '08), I think the original patch from the Prophet '08 (Yump) is still the most accurate of the three. It's pretty simple: no resonance, oscillators at -5 and +5, etc. That patch has a slight pitch blip/ramp up at the attack, which the designer must have heard. I once slowed down the recording of Jump to hear if there was a slight ramping up or down of the pitch. I didn't hear one, but I did hear a very short/fast tremolo on the attack, which isn't noticeable when played at the normal speed. So I eliminated the pitch blip and instead use the third EG to get a very short and fast tremolo... and then dial it back to an appropriately subtle level. Putting this sound into the Rev2 means that you can also program in some delay, which helps a lot. Like everything else, these patches sound much better when using Sacred Synthesis' stereo arrangement, such as with an '08 module. Everything else makes subtle differences, but running it in true stereo from two different units really gives it the 'wow' effect.

Re: Van Halens Jump on Rev 2
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2017, 09:47:44 AM »
Hi,

Don't know if it really helps to estimate how far the Rev2 could be a solution, but here is a quick sample of the built-in patch. I'm not a keyboarder so please don't listen to the tempo and other stuff  8).
DSI Prophet Rev2

LoboLives

Re: Van Halens Jump on Rev 2
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2017, 11:33:46 AM »
Well... sound aside, at least you can actually PLAY jump properly on the Rev2 having 5 octaves. I'll never understand why DSI hampered the OB/P6 with those short keybeds. Total waste of a decent pair of instruments (I prefer the Rev2's sound and power anyway believe it or not). I think there's a preset for 'jump' on board the Rev2 and yes some who've owned obies say it can sound more obie like than the OB-6 at times but of course it's not gonna be like a vintage VCO monster (nor neither is the Prophet 6 or OB-6 VCOS or not they sound quite modern and hard vs real old VCOs in fact the P6 sounds hard and the OB-6 sounds harsh/cold vs the Rev2, which can sound warm/refined as well as dark and moody or sweet and japanese/juno like, which is surprising given their price and spec differences), but close enough for most esp in covers bands.

JUMP was played on the OBXa which used Curtis filters...the OB6 is SEM based. Totally different of course it won’t sound exactly the same. Most people saying the OB6 “doesn’t sound like an Oberheim” only know the OB8 or OBXa and none of the SEM based legacy.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 11:37:08 AM by LoboLives »

LoboLives

Re: Van Halens Jump on Rev 2
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2017, 11:36:37 AM »
There is a patch on the REV2 called JUMP. Sounds spot on but I noticed it was in stack mode and when I was playing the riff on the 8 voice version voices started to be stollen from the low octave Chord being held. Odd because the OBXa was only 8 voices.

jok3r

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Re: Van Halens Jump on Rev 2
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2017, 03:51:20 PM »
Thanks for the answers. The demo sounds indeed better than much factory presets of several workstations I played throughout the years. I always had to program it myself and would do that an the Rev2, too. I just want to know if it is even possible.

When I listen to this recording and the original song alternately, I still think the higher notes of the Rev2's version sound a little weak. Is that due to equalizing in the original mix? Or are there any other sound engineering techniques that could be applied after the outputs of the synth that make this effect?

The little demo's sound is really good, if you hear it without comparing it directly to the original. Could there be a way to achieve these stronger right hand chords without any postprocessing of the signal? Only with some more tweaking? Or a stronger use of the effect section?

And yeah... a 5 octave keyboard with at least 5 voices is absolutely essential for playing this song. That's a feature I also like on the Rev2.

@LoboLives: So one can say the '08/Rev2 is the nearest relative to an OBXa within the DSI product line?

Can anyone tell me the patch number of this sound? Perhaps I can try out a Rev2 last minute before buying on Tuesday. And I don't want to waste my short time with looking for that patch. I want to create some own sounds, which is despite everything more important than this single patch.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 03:54:11 PM by jok3r »
Prophet Rev2, Moog Matriarch, Novation Peak, Arturia DrumBrute Impact, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES

Re: Van Halens Jump on Rev 2
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2017, 11:07:23 PM »
Can anyone tell me the patch number of this sound?
Bank F3 Program P38, named "JUMP!"
I have not tried so far to approach the original in such details, but there could be some possibilities. The patch is a stacked one. Both layers are almost identical, only the oscillators of each layer are detuned slightly different. The effects are a short BBD delay on both, you could try to exchange one by a chorus for example and maybe modulate the FX mix by the note number to have more effect on the higher notes. I'm still in the beginning playing with the Rev2, maybe someone knows more tricks.
DSI Prophet Rev2

LoboLives

Re: Van Halens Jump on Rev 2
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2017, 09:19:50 AM »
Thanks for the answers. The demo sounds indeed better than much factory presets of several workstations I played throughout the years. I always had to program it myself and would do that an the Rev2, too. I just want to know if it is even possible.

When I listen to this recording and the original song alternately, I still think the higher notes of the Rev2's version sound a little weak. Is that due to equalizing in the original mix? Or are there any other sound engineering techniques that could be applied after the outputs of the synth that make this effect?

The little demo's sound is really good, if you hear it without comparing it directly to the original. Could there be a way to achieve these stronger right hand chords without any postprocessing of the signal? Only with some more tweaking? Or a stronger use of the effect section?

And yeah... a 5 octave keyboard with at least 5 voices is absolutely essential for playing this song. That's a feature I also like on the Rev2.

@LoboLives: So one can say the '08/Rev2 is the nearest relative to an OBXa within the DSI product line?

Can anyone tell me the patch number of this sound? Perhaps I can try out a Rev2 last minute before buying on Tuesday. And I don't want to waste my short time with looking for that patch. I want to create some own sounds, which is despite everything more important than this single patch.

Add some chorus to one of the layers instead of a BBD and it should get you there.

The P08 and REV2 are much closer to the OBXa than the OB6 sound wise.

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Van Halens Jump on Rev 2
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2017, 10:21:35 AM »
On a related topic, it's always fascinating to again take a look at these introductions.  The reviewer makes direct comparisons between the Prophet '08 and the Oberheim OB-Xa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oS6J2sToZM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCz0yR48b1o

Re: Van Halens Jump on Rev 2
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2017, 06:55:38 AM »
This is what the Jump preset was slightly modified from. This is the original OBXa A1 patch sheet.
Sorry its a little dark but it was my iPad camera and my live room is not the brightest.
I do have a similar patch for the Pro 08 that I downloaded a few years ago on the original DSI forum. It's not mine and I don't know who originally authored it. Will and try and dig it out for you later and post it.

jok3r

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Re: Van Halens Jump on Rev 2
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2017, 12:26:09 PM »
Good News: got a 16 Voice Unit from my local shop today. That Jump patch sounds much better in reality ;-) But there's still work to do. But nothing I would not get sorted out... thanks for your help.

Bad News: My Rev2 has some broken keys. Some make a strange noise when they are released and snap back. Seems like there should be some damper like at the other ones, but it isn't there. Sounds like the key hit the metal body directly when snapping back. This is at 4-5 consecutive keys. Another key way down the board doesn't snap back at all. I have to pull it up manually if I accidentally hit it.

I'll bring the synth back tomorrow and hope they got another unit in stock to exchange it. It's a brand new synth and such things shouldn't happen. But well... I had similar problems with my Korg Kronos, too. Usually my dealer solves those problems without asking any questions.

Apart from this problem, I really enjoyed the first hours with my new knobby analog synth.
Prophet Rev2, Moog Matriarch, Novation Peak, Arturia DrumBrute Impact, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES

Re: Van Halens Jump on Rev 2
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2017, 12:54:19 PM »
Hi jok3r-

Congrats on the new Rev2! Sorry to hear you're experiencing trouble with some of the keys. It sounds like it's this issue here:

http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,1710.msg19213.html#msg19213

It's very likely you'll be able to resolve the issue at home in just a few minutes. Please contact our dedicated support channel and we'll get you sorted out: support (at) davesmithinstruments.com
SEQUENTIAL | OBERHEIM

LoboLives

Re: Van Halens Jump on Rev 2
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2017, 08:44:34 AM »
This is what the Jump preset was slightly modified from. This is the original OBXa A1 patch sheet.
Sorry its a little dark but it was my iPad camera and my live room is not the brightest.
I do have a similar patch for the Pro 08 that I downloaded a few years ago on the original DSI forum. It's not mine and I don't know who originally authored it. Will and try and dig it out for you later and post it.

You know, looking at the OBXa layout.....it seems like almost the perfect layout for an analog synth that can do splits and layers while still having everything on the front panel.

Re: Van Halens Jump on Rev 2
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2017, 10:53:03 AM »

You know, looking at the OBXa layout.....it seems like almost the perfect layout for an analog synth that can do splits and layers while still having everything on the front panel.

I have an OB8 that is almost exactly the same. It is so easy to work with. It does have Page2 functionality that the obxa does not have so a lot of them controls have a secondary function but for most sounds, this initial layer is so good to work with. Great design as they all were back then.
Saying that, my Pro 08 is nice and simple too. 😊

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Van Halens Jump on Rev 2
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2017, 11:07:49 AM »
What I would give for one of those massive Oberheims....Just beautiful.

Re: Van Halens Jump on Rev 2
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2017, 11:13:11 AM »
What I would give for one of those massive Oberheims....Just beautiful.

Yes, they are gorgeous. The sound is beautiful too.
I think both Dave and Tom nailed it back then with their Pro5 and OBXa/OB8. Dave's Prophet 5 is probably the best looking synth ever.

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Van Halens Jump on Rev 2
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2017, 11:16:07 AM »
Agreed.  Both sound and appearance.  And all these years later, we're still trying to achieve that same beauty.

LoboLives

Re: Van Halens Jump on Rev 2
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2017, 04:29:21 PM »
What I would give for one of those massive Oberheims....Just beautiful.

Yes, they are gorgeous. The sound is beautiful too.
I think both Dave and Tom nailed it back then with their Pro5 and OBXa/OB8. Dave's Prophet 5 is probably the best looking synth ever.

Looking at the Prophet 6 it would have been great to see Dave put a strip of wood across where the Prophet 6 name sits just above the keyboard. The black I’m sure is more to do with economics and accessibility but still.

jok3r

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Re: Van Halens Jump on Rev 2
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2017, 06:10:53 PM »
Thanks, Robot Heart, for your answer. But I'm sitting in Germany and was already asleep, when you wrote it. I woke up the next day and the first thing I did was returning my unit.

I did some other tests the evening before and discovered that I not only had problems with the keys, but also had one of those faulty voice chips. If I set osc1 to triangle and played some keys in the upper half of the board I got a strong "sawtoothy" sound on voices 13-15. Recallibration did not work. Even in a practical use case this effect was very clear to hear. I played 4-voice chord progressions and every 4th chord (containing voices 13-16) sounded like a sawtooth chord instead of a triangle.

All in all: the unit was too faulty. I simply didn't want to keep it. I got my money back, because I didn't want to have another unit in exchange. I think I will wait a few month and try again. Perhaps the production of this synth is stable enough by then, so there won't be faulty units that often. 

I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to sort out any problems with a brand new synth out of the shop. I simply expect it to work. Music is my compensation for my work life. I'm on vacation this week and don't want to solve any problems in my rare spare time. If I want to do that, I'll go back to work or buy a vintage synth on ebay ;-)

My first impression of DSI is still very good. I read this forum quite frequently and think the support is very good, both from the community and from all DSI employees. I'll give the Rev2 another try when I think the children's diseases are over.

It's 3 AM here... I'll go to sleep. ;-)
Prophet Rev2, Moog Matriarch, Novation Peak, Arturia DrumBrute Impact, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES