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strange 'HOLD' behavior on the prophets

strange 'HOLD' behavior on the prophets
« on: September 25, 2017, 05:34:01 AM »
Hello,

First of all, I like the sound and functionality of this synth very much!

But...

On the Prophet REV2 (as well as on the prophet 6), the 'HOLD' function is very odd and I don't manage to get it work properly.

I'm used to the (much more logical and musical) way the hold function of the Korg Polysix works:

- you press 'HOLD'

- you press a a note or a chord (ranging from two notes to 6) so all those notes are staying hold or sustained

- when you press another note or a chord (of a given chord progression), no matter the amount of notes pressed, the previous note or chord is completely reset or, if this makes more sense, 'overwritten' by the new note or chord.

That new chord keeps being sustained until the next note / chord is played etc...

This is really the way a 'HOLD' function should work. So you don't have to use a sustain pedal, and the notes are sustained until the next notes (or chords of a progression) are being played.

In case of the prophets: as far as I experience and understand, the HOLD button adds notes until full polyphony is reached, what makes it totally useless (at least for me, and I guess for a lot of other musicians as well).

In this case, if you play a triad when HOLD is active and then you play another triad (of a given chord progression), instead of hearing only the new triad, you get a mixed and very messy six-tone chord, consisting of the first and second chord of the chord progression (good for some polytonal free jazz stuff I guess, but not so nice for pop music)!

In case of a six-voice (prophet 6), playing two notes of the next chord of the chord progression will result in a correct result (after reaching the max. of 6 voices, the notes are reset so now you hear the next two notes as they should be).

In case of a 8 voice (or more), these 2 notes also add up to the previous 'special chord', an you then get a completely dissonant 8 note chord mashup!

Well, that's really really weird! Very strange this behavior still exists and users are not being able to change the way the 'HOLD' function works in globals menu...

Can please someone give some more insight into this? Is DSI planning to have the user choose how the 'HOLD' function works?

Thanks a lot!!


L.





LoboLives

Re: strange 'HOLD' behavior on the prophets
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2017, 09:45:03 AM »
Hello,

First of all, I like the sound and functionality of this synth very much!

But...

On the Prophet REV2 (as well as on the prophet 6), the 'HOLD' function is very odd and I don't manage to get it work properly.

I'm used to the (much more logical and musical) way the hold function of the Korg Polysix works:

- you press 'HOLD'

- you press a a note or a chord (ranging from two notes to 6) so all those notes are staying hold or sustained

- when you press another note or a chord (of a given chord progression), no matter the amount of notes pressed, the previous note or chord is completely reset or, if this makes more sense, 'overwritten' by the new note or chord.

That new chord keeps being sustained until the next note / chord is played etc...

This is really the way a 'HOLD' function should work. So you don't have to use a sustain pedal, and the notes are sustained until the next notes (or chords of a progression) are being played.

In case of the prophets: as far as I experience and understand, the HOLD button adds notes until full polyphony is reached, what makes it totally useless (at least for me, and I guess for a lot of other musicians as well).

In this case, if you play a triad when HOLD is active and then you play another triad (of a given chord progression), instead of hearing only the new triad, you get a mixed and very messy six-tone chord, consisting of the first and second chord of the chord progression (good for some polytonal free jazz stuff I guess, but not so nice for pop music)!

In case of a six-voice (prophet 6), playing two notes of the next chord of the chord progression will result in a correct result (after reaching the max. of 6 voices, the notes are reset so now you hear the next two notes as they should be).

In case of a 8 voice (or more), these 2 notes also add up to the previous 'special chord', an you then get a completely dissonant 8 note chord mashup!

Well, that's really really weird! Very strange this behavior still exists and users are not being able to change the way the 'HOLD' function works in globals menu...

Can please someone give some more insight into this? Is DSI planning to have the user choose how the 'HOLD' function works?

Thanks a lot!!


L.

The Hold button is more for drones/soundscapes. Works fine for my music.

Re: strange 'HOLD' behavior on the prophets
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2017, 01:43:58 PM »
The hold was designed on our instruments: Hold = Sustain. So think of it in those terms. It's true, it's not like the Polysix.
SEQUENTIAL

Re: strange 'HOLD' behavior on the prophets
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2017, 11:35:39 AM »
The way the sustain on the Sub 37 works is in my view perfect, especially with the arp.

jg666

  • ***
  • 429
Re: strange 'HOLD' behavior on the prophets
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2017, 01:07:01 AM »
I do like the way that the Hold function works on the Rev2, it gives me some interesting options with arps and with notes/chords. I do understand though how some people might not like this feature. Perhaps the ideal situation would be to have it as an option so the choice is with the user?
DSI Prophet Rev2, DSI Pro 2, Moog Sub37, Korg Minilogue, Yamaha MOXF6, Yamaha MODX6, Yamaha Montage6

Re: strange 'HOLD' behavior on the prophets
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2017, 02:06:53 AM »
Thanks for the replies!

Well I admit, yes it can be useful too and do some nice things for soundscape / drones / ... so I was a little wrong by saying it's totally not useful.

But polysynths are designed not only to play drones or FX I guess, but also to add nice layers and support other parts of a band / recording by following chord schemes. So, for situations where chords follow each other, what's (still) the case in a lot of popular genres of music these days :p, this hold function is really awkward.

As a live keyboard player, you don't always have the possibility to use a sustain pedal (need feet for something else, at least one to stand on). Also, using a sustain pedal in a situation with multiple keyboards / parts to be played, can make the playing quite complex. Having chords sustained by the synth until a next chord is played, make things a lot easier.

Like the hold function on the polysix, it's a very handy tool to have chords sustained while you can edit some synth parameters with the same hand or play another synth or push a button of a sampler whatever, then change the chord again, etc....

I really hope DSI can implement this feature in the near future? I think a lot of live players would find it very useful if the hold button could have a user defined setting at least. Also in studio situations it would be a welcome addition.

Thanks a lot in advance,

and once again: congratulations with this great synth. I really love it!



LoboLives

Re: strange 'HOLD' behavior on the prophets
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2017, 03:09:51 AM »

As a live keyboard player, you don't always have the possibility to use a sustain pedal (need feet for something else, at least one to stand on). Also, using a sustain pedal in a situation with multiple keyboards / parts to be played, can make the playing quite complex.


Tell that to Vangelis  ;)

Re: strange 'HOLD' behavior on the prophets
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2017, 08:19:02 AM »
Except the short 'this is how DSI synths work / it's not a polysix' kinda reply, is there any small chance that in the near future DSI will make it possible to latch notes when playing chords while 'hold' is active (like it's the case on  many synths or on ARP function)?

I'm not at all experienced with building synths, but as it's a standard feature that's being integrated in synths since the early 80's (almost 40 years ago), I guess it can't be that complex to program?

Even if DSI would like to keep it the 'DSI way', that also might be useful in other situations yes, it would be really nice to make it possible to have this feature user-defined available in the options menu...

I'm using the REV2 in 2 bands now, and I really miss this function a lot! I can't have the polysix / kiwisix live with me anymore for some reasons, and I like the REV2 very much, but this is something that really lacks on the synth.

I still believe I'm not the only one that's missing this...

Thanks in advance DSI to take care of this!






Re: strange 'HOLD' behavior on the prophets
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2017, 07:17:44 AM »
Hello,

Still wondering if DSI plans to make the very useful option to re-latch hords in HOLD mode available anytime soon.

I really can't imagine that this functionality, available in synths from more than 30 years old, is not available yet / possible to make it available on DSI's prophets.

Thanks!


Re: strange 'HOLD' behavior on the prophets
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2017, 02:55:09 PM »
another beautiful example of having the possibility to re-latch chords in HOLD mode:

in split mode you have a 'A' chords patch for the left hand and a 'B' lead patch for the right hand

now if you use the sustain pedal to have the 'A' patch chords change fluidly, the sustain pedal also sustains the 'B' patch lead, where it shouldn't...

another way to deal with this, is the possibility to have the sustain pedal assigned to only one of both patches.


Oh, I wish there were just a little bit more options to tweak general settings / patch settings on this great sounding synth...




Re: strange 'HOLD' behavior on the prophets
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2017, 01:13:34 AM »
another way to deal with this, is the possibility to have the sustain pedal assigned to only one of both patches.

that's how they do it with NORD Stage by the way: for each sound of a preset having the possibility to activate or de-activate the sustain pedal (and other patch-defined options).
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 01:56:34 AM by luk.vermeir@gmail.com »

Re: strange 'HOLD' behavior on the prophets
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2017, 01:55:39 PM »
What I need more than anything is assignable sustain pedal/hold. It blows my mind that we canít sustain pedal chords/whatever in one side of a split patch and tweak the other side of the split at the same time. Not being able to play chords while tweaking a lead or bass seems to kinda undermine the use of a split function in a lot of ways.

Re: strange 'HOLD' behavior on the prophets
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2017, 06:32:01 AM »
I think, as is the case with a lot of new and interesting products released nowadays, live keyboard players from the dinosaur-age are sometimes forgotten. Even when designing keyboards that are ment to be played live also :)

There's still some flexibility missing in the options of the mighty REV 2, yes...

WE NEED OUR HANDS! Or at least one :p

I made the chord-relatch possible with my Squarp Pyramid, but only when REV2 's local = off. So, not ideal as I need other hardware + can't use the panel because local = off...

I'll post a video soon of how sweet it is to have chords re-latched. And, in my own personal and modest opinion, much more useful than the HOLD functionality now, that's rather just a nice effect to be used from time to time...

Re: strange 'HOLD' behavior on the prophets
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2021, 11:53:37 AM »
Sorry for bumping this old thread, just got a Rev2 a few weeks ago and scratching my head about how to get around this. I saw in another thread that creativespiral got chord latching implemented for the ARP, but I'm looking to accomplish this without the arpeggiator and instead just let my chords ring out. Did I miss this getting addressed at some point?