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Prophet 08 Sounds on a Prophet 12

Prophet 08 Sounds on a Prophet 12
« on: September 17, 2017, 02:14:06 PM »
After having recently adding the excellent REV2 to my synth arsenal and loading some of the old Prophet 08 sounds into it, I've been actively recreating some of the sounds on my Prophet 12, mainly just to see if I could tbh.
Most of them port over much more accurately than I expected.
So for anyone interested I'll upload a few later.
Here's one to get you interested, though on the 08 it's called Moonster.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/35p71hgs40dqafk/Monsta%21.syx?dl=0

Re: Prophet 08 Sounds on a Prophet 12
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2017, 11:41:18 PM »
I guess it's easy to do when you haven't used the P'12 specific features, the P'08/REV2 have the same filter and the DCO are straight... I wonder why DSI didn't make the 'slop' parameter stronger on the original P'08!
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 11:43:12 PM by Mr Kay »

Re: Prophet 08 Sounds on a Prophet 12
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2017, 12:40:03 AM »
Thanks for this, i look forward to some more patches.

Just as a side note:
Someone has actually already converted all the Prophet 8 presets to Prophet 12 because i have several sysex files
that someone posted on the old DSI lifeboat forum, i think they used some sort of sysex converter though.
I cant remember who it was and the old DSI forum is no longer responsive, so if anyone wants them i can upload them to dropbox or something.

Or if the original uploader posts on here then maybe they can explain the process involved and re post the files  ;)


Re: Prophet 08 Sounds on a Prophet 12
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2017, 01:11:16 AM »
Thanks for this, i look forward to some more patches.

Just as a side note:
Someone has actually already converted all the Prophet 8 presets to Prophet 12 because i have several sysex files
that someone posted on the old DSI lifeboat forum, i think they used some sort of sysex converter though.
I cant remember who it was and the old DSI forum is no longer responsive, so if anyone wants them i can upload them to dropbox or something.

Or if the original uploader posts on here then maybe they can explain the process involved and re post the files  ;)

Yes please! I am very interested in those patches!

Re: Prophet 08 Sounds on a Prophet 12
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2017, 04:26:42 AM »
Thanks for this, i look forward to some more patches.

Just as a side note:
Someone has actually already converted all the Prophet 8 presets to Prophet 12 because i have several sysex files
that someone posted on the old DSI lifeboat forum, i think they used some sort of sysex converter though.
I cant remember who it was and the old DSI forum is no longer responsive, so if anyone wants them i can upload them to dropbox or something.

Or if the original uploader posts on here then maybe they can explain the process involved and re post the files  ;)

Hi,

Actually yes if you could upload them please that'd be great. :)

If nothing else it'd give me a chance to see how good a job I've done of porting them myself.

There are a few differences it seems, particularly in the release rates of the envelopes so it's never a straight conversion.

It's been an interesting process though and actually quite a good way to see how sounds are put together.

If anyone else has a similar setup I recommend they too go through it for just that reason - even if it's only for half a dozen sounds or so.

That said, a sys ex with them already all done would be fab and save a lot of time!

Thanks :)

Re: Prophet 08 Sounds on a Prophet 12
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2017, 06:11:07 AM »
One parameter that the Prophet '08 has and I very much missed on the Prophet 12 is the Envelope Delay.  Now perhaps one of you P12 geniuses will tell me that, if you modulate this by that and that by this, you can create an envelope delay effect.  I admittedly didn't have the chance or interest to delve deeply into the instrument, so it may be that I missed the combination of things.  But the P'08 has the Envelope Delay parameters sitting right there, so that it's easy to make frequent use of them.  I much prefer that sort of directness. 

One thing that surprised me about the P12 was the shortness of it's envelope times.  They seem to be approximately as short as those of the P'08, and far shorter than those of the Poly Evolver.  This meant that there were some basic sounds and effects I had programmed on my PEK that I couldn't achieve on the P12.  That's not a problem for me, since I intend to have both instruments, and in trying to imitate those effects, I actually discovered some other superb P12 capabilities - namely, the Lag.  I've never before owned a synthesizer with the feature.  When I discovered it, the claim others have made - that the Prophet 12 is the equivalent of a modular - struck me as being accurate.

I like very long envelope times.  For some patches, such as large-scale brass, they're absolutely necessary.  On the Prophet '08, the brevity of the Attack time can be somewhat compensated for with a judicious use of the Delay.  Another of my favorite uses of it was to design complex patches having two entirely different Layers, and to delay the entrance of Layer B.  This was especially useful with pads, so that the Layer B would enter only when a note or chord from Layer A was held for a certain amount of time.  This means that some times the B will have the chance to enter, and other times it won't - which can be a very desirable effect.  Probably the P12 has the ability to delay a Layer, and I just didn't discover the method.  When I finally buy one, I'll be looking to create that effect.  But on the P'08, it's a simple parameter ready to go in an instant.  That's the way I prefer it to be.

In my opinion, considering the Prophet 12, Prophet '08/Rev2, and eight-voice Poly Evolver Keyboard, one instrument cannot replace another.  They're too unique; they each have their own distinctive voice and compliment each other wonderfully.  Having all three would not result in sonic redundancy, unless one is an incompetent sound designer.  The PEK has an array of digital wave shapes far beyond that of the P12; even its digital aliasing can be beautiful at times.  The P'08 has an endearing bright brassy character that turns shrill on the other two.  And the P12 has a sophistication that leaves the others miles behind; it's nearly true that, if you can imagine a sound - any sound - you can create it on the P12.  This shouldn't be a matter of contention between synthesists; it should be a happy circumstance for which we're thankful.

[Update:  There is, indeed an Envelope Delay on the P12, but it's not a dedicated knob, but a soft button.]
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 07:00:03 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Prophet 08 Sounds on a Prophet 12
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2017, 06:38:26 AM »
One parameter that the Prophet '08 has and I very much missed on the Prophet 12 is the Envelope Delay.  Now perhaps one of you P12 geniuses will tell me that, if you modulate this by that and that by this, you can create an envelope delay effect.  I admittedly didn't have the chance or interest to delve deeply into the instrument, so it may be that I missed the combination of things.  But the P'08 has the Envelope Delay parameters sitting right there, so that it's easy to make frequent use of them.  I much prefer that sort of directness. 

The Prophet 12 does indeed have a delay parameter for it's envelopes - no clever modulation routing required, it's just that it's assigned to a 'soft knob' rather than a dedicated one.

Here's a screenshot. :)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ow55xebbpe2ueuj/peophwt%2012%20delay.jpeg?dl=0

Re: Prophet 08 Sounds on a Prophet 12
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2017, 06:43:14 AM »
Ah, there it is!  I knew you would be able to correct me, Blott.  Thank you.  I guess I'm a knobby kind of guy.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 06:52:09 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Prophet 08 Sounds on a Prophet 12
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2017, 06:52:31 AM »
In my opinion, considering the Prophet 12, Prophet '08/Rev2, and eight-voice Poly Evolver Keyboard, one instrument cannot replace another, and if you think the contrary, you haven't sufficiently immersed yourself in each.  They're too unique; they each have their own distinctive voice and compliment each other wonderfully.  Having all three would not result in sonic redundancy, unless one is an incompetent sound designer. 

I don't have as much experience with Dave Smith synths as you do, but based on my experience of owning both the Prophet 12 and the REV2, I have to say I agree with you. :)

Each instrument is very much it's own and has it's own character.

It's been good fun attempting to port sounds from the REV2 across to the P12 tbh, as it has made me a little quicker at using the UI on both synths and it has highlighted a couple of useful things in regards to clever use of LFO's too.
So a couple of 'aha' moments for me! :)

It's also highlighted the differences between the two and like you said they do compliment each other nicely.

I tried porting a 2 oscillator patch from the P12 to the REV2 last night, but it was unsuccessful, even though it should theoretically be doable as the sound was created using just two pulse oscillators.

I think where the REV2 struggled was mainly because of the clever use of the 4 delays on the P12, but I'll have another crack at it later as I was getting tired when I tried it.

It's been a fun pursuit actually and it only served to further fuel my affection for both synths. :)
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 06:59:33 AM by jazzygb1 »

Re: Prophet 08 Sounds on a Prophet 12
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2017, 07:17:34 AM »
Great. 

JazzyGB1, it probably doesn't sound like it because I'm a perfectionist with programming (whether or not it shows!), but I really love the Prophet 12.  Please don't be offended by my occasional criticisms.  I'm still assessing the instrument and sorting out where it would fit in with my music-making.  But I do share your enthusiasm for it, such as was obvious in your video.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 09:36:31 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Prophet 08 Sounds on a Prophet 12
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2017, 07:45:11 AM »
Great. 

Blott, it probably doesn't sound like it because I'm a perfectionist with programming (whether or not it shows!), but I really love the Prophet 12.  Please don't be offended by my occasional criticisms.  I'm still assessing the instrument and sorting out where it would fit in with my music-making.  But I do share your enthusiasm for it, such as was obvious in your video.

No offence taken at all, I enjoy the debate. :)

Whilst I am a HUGE fan of the Prophet 12, I understand that not everyone will share my enthusiasm and we all look for different things from our synths.

For me though it's how it is as an instrument that wins me over.

By that I mean even putting the sounds aside for one moment, as an instrument on its own it's just brilliantly conceived IMO.

Things like the two sliders, the illuminated pitch & Mod wheels, the numeric keypad, the 4 delays, the distortion, the live playlist mode etc.

Individually are those are small things, but collectively they just combine to make it great instrument to play IMO.

So yes...big fan!  ;)

I'm sure you'll become as big a convert once you've had one for a few months too. :)
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 08:32:12 AM by jazzygb1 »

Re: Prophet 08 Sounds on a Prophet 12
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2017, 08:08:51 AM »
So i uploaded those sysex files to Dropbox for you all. I still can't find the original post on the old DSI forum so I have no idea who to thank for them. It seems to be 1 factory bank file and 2 others by Terris and Jonas Sjostrom, i have checked and they are freely available so i don't think i am treading on anyones toes by doing this. Enjoy
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pmaphe2tlzw3a1v/P8ConvertedP12.zip?dl=0

Re: Prophet 08 Sounds on a Prophet 12
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2017, 09:14:12 AM »
I'm sure you'll become as big a convert once you've had one for a few months too. :)

Oh, I'm already there.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Prophet 08 Sounds on a Prophet 12
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2017, 09:48:54 AM »
So i uploaded those sysex files to Dropbox for you all. I still can't find the original post on the old DSI forum so I have no idea who to thank for them. It seems to be 1 factory bank file and 2 others by Terris and Jonas Sjostrom, i have checked and they are freely available so i don't think i am treading on anyones toes by doing this. Enjoy
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pmaphe2tlzw3a1v/P8ConvertedP12.zip?dl=0

You're a star, thanks very much I'll take a look at them later. :)

Re: Prophet 08 Sounds on a Prophet 12
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2017, 05:03:01 PM »
Thanks for the P08 sounds in the P12 format.
I've uploaded the sys ex but sadly the sounds recreated purely via sys ex sound quite different and a lot thinner.
I compared a sys ex uploaded sound to one I had ported myself manually and there's quite a difference, which might explain why the person that did them only did one bank.
So sadly, although it's a lot more laborious the best way to port a sound from a Prophet 08/REV2 to a Prophet 12, is to reprogram it yourself manually. :(
So regrettably they're not going to be usable for me.
Thanks very much for sharing though - really appreciate it.
I'm going to try the other sound banks next. :)

Re: Prophet 08 Sounds on a Prophet 12
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2017, 12:19:02 AM »
Thanks for the P08 sounds in the P12 format.
I've uploaded the sys ex but sadly the sounds recreated purely via sys ex sound quite different and a lot thinner.
I compared a sys ex uploaded sound to one I had ported myself manually and there's quite a difference, which might explain why the person that did them only did one bank.
So sadly, although it's a lot more laborious the best way to port a sound from a Prophet 08/REV2 to a Prophet 12, is to reprogram it yourself manually. :(
So regrettably they're not going to be usable for me.
Thanks very much for sharing though - really appreciate it.
I'm going to try the other sound banks next. :)

No worries, unfortunately i never had a P08 to A\B them with. At least someone has done it now.
Keep us updated on your manual conversions, I'm looking forward to having a play with them.

Re: Prophet 08 Sounds on a Prophet 12
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2017, 06:59:58 PM »
So i uploaded those sysex files to Dropbox for you all. I still can't find the original post on the old DSI forum so I have no idea who to thank for them. It seems to be 1 factory bank file and 2 others by Terris and Jonas Sjostrom, i have checked and they are freely available so i don't think i am treading on anyones toes by doing this. Enjoy
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pmaphe2tlzw3a1v/P8ConvertedP12.zip?dl=0

Thanks for this!

I got few patches that I really like. will keep dig into it!