Ant's Prophet 6 vs Prophet 5 rant treat

[Manbird]

Or perhaps instead, an emphasis on music, rather than technology...brother. 

Well, synthesizers have both an artistic and technical sides of their use. That is why I like his statement so much. It deserves to be framed and put up on a wall. Truly insightful. And no, I am not ironic. Its genius!

You're very kind! Feel free to contact my lawyers about use of the quote! (Kidding!)

I have a dear friend who's known me for decades who used to insist that because I knew how to program synths I must certainly be better at math(s, for any stray Brits amongst!) than I was letting on. She was an economics major with a very logical mind and used to help me do my taxes and accounting etc. It took me years to convince her that because I "understood" how to turn a Cutoff Freq knob up or down, it didn't mean I was secretly running numbers as I worked!

Maybe what I've come to understand in recent years is that I love the Not Knowing as much as the Knowing of stuff and things, at least in the creative realm. In fact, that's what's at the heart of this particular thread in the first place. The Prophet 5 is a creature of mystery to me, to this very day, even though I'm nothing but comfortable with it. There's a certain irony for me in trying to "find" the mystery in the Prophet 6, then. "I know it's in here somewhere!" It's safe enough to say that my fascination with synths leans more to the musical side than the technical, though I'd throw in that  the "mystery" I'm searching for has a spiritual element, whatever that might even mean!

[dslsynth]

Very well said! Synthesizers is a musical field with a certain and sometimes strong technical bias. But at the end of the day its all about navigating the parameter space of the synthesizer looking for sounds that will work for current musical goals. Now, each parameter in a synthesizer is a dimension in a usually fairly large vector space that describes the current sound produced by the synthesizer. So maybe you could try the term "hyperspace artifact" on your mathematical friend next time you talk about synthesizers?

One thing is the technical side of things. Another is how a specific synthesizer responds to specific points in alluded to hyperspace. This is where the craft of designing synthesizers really shows. Some machines just got it instantly whereas others need more work to obtain usable sounds. Its certainly an interesting and challenging field!

[Manbird]

Here's a simple question... if I set one of the Osc Shape knobs on the P6 to the mid-point between, say, triangle and saw, how much is this like selecting both of those waveforms on Osc B on a P5?

My guess is not so similar, as it seems on the P5 that each waveform is added to the previous, while on the P6, obviously the volume of one is lessened as the knob is turned towards the other.



 

[Manbird]

A bit of follow-up on the track called "Magazine Street" that I posted here previously as a sort of Prophet 6 vs Prophet 5 demonstration battle. While I'm always convinced the P5 simply has that magical Thing going for it, it's to my own surprise that the ongoing recording of this song is moving into P6-dominant territory. There's a new P6 bass here that I'm pleased with. Very, uh, basic, and solid. The oscs are sync'd, there's no Slop and Unison is set to one voice only - all to keep the bass tone staying in one place. Previous versions have seen the recorded waveform of the bass track looking like a snake digesting several rats at once, if that makes sense!

More amusing, for me anyway, was that for the chordal part on the intro and choruses, I ran the P6 out in mono into an Ibanez stereo chorus stompbox. I like the internal P6 chorus, it's fine enough, but hearing the synth through proper analog chorus was a bit biblical to my ears.

The only other change to the track isn't synth related, but it does add a bit of woof to the track. I took a loop of the Michael Urbano's "real" drums from the album version of the song (jangly guitars and nary a synth in sight) to augment the TR-707 track.

The song is sounding quite tight by now, with maybe a P6 to P5 ratio of exactly 60/40, give or take/more or less!

https://soundcloud.com/anton-barbeau/magazine-street-synth-p6-p5-all-in-20-urbano-loop/s-viVqu

[jdt9517]

I never had the chance to work on the P-6 except of a couple of times in GC.  I owned  P-5 for years in the 1980's.  It was an early Rev 3.0 with 40 memories.  I sold it for a DX-7 (sigh ).

Many years later, I picked up a P-08 and fell in love again with analog synthesis.  The basic tone was somewhat different, but I preferred the P-08 over my memory of the P-5.  Your experiments confirm the closeness of the modern synth sound to the P-5.

Your type of comparison is probably the most fair as a synth is usually not played solo, but with other instruments and sounds.  It was really hard for me to see any significant difference between the P-6 and P-5.

Thank you for putting on this comparison demonstration.  It is very helpful to hear the different instruments in context.

[Manbird]

I never had the chance to work on the P-6 except of a couple of times in GC.  I owned  P-5 for years in the 1980's.  It was an early Rev 3.0 with 40 memories.  I sold it for a DX-7 (sigh ).

Many years later, I picked up a P-08 and fell in love again with analog synthesis.  The basic tone was somewhat different, but I preferred the P-08 over my memory of the P-5.  Your experiments confirm the closeness of the modern synth sound to the P-5.

Your type of comparison is probably the most fair as a synth is usually not played solo, but with other instruments and sounds.  It was really hard for me to see any significant difference between the P-6 and P-5.

Thank you for putting on this comparison demonstration.  It is very helpful to hear the different instruments in context.

Glad if it's helpful. I've been obsessed with the P5 since I was a teen and still am. The P6 is clearly built for people like me - it's almost/sorta/kinda a P5, kinda/sorta/almost. But more! But not quite! Etc. I'm lucky to have both synths in my life now. The P5 is still more instantly pleasing to my ear, both more beautiful in a "classic" way and also more mysterious, but the P6 is gorgeous in its own right, and I'm always learning more about its subtleties.

I'm always a little surprised when I find myself pulled more towards the P6. Some of it has to do with tech issues - the P5 has a few glitches to work around, but also I need to sort out a better USB connection. At the moment it's generating a fair amount of noise/whine. But matching up tracks, or moving in one direction with one synth and another direction with the other, is always enjoyable.

In Berlin, I've also got my Pro One and my Evolver and I often play similar SC/DSIpatch-matching games. I recognize from this forum and others that there's always room for real-world examples, and I'm happy if my contribution catches anyone's ear.

[Manbird]

Greets all. I'll stick this in Your Music as well, I reckon.

I posted this around Christmas in semi-mixed state. This, I think, is a final mix. The main concern I've had with this track is keeping the bass reigned in. I re-recorded a new bass on the P6, using only a single osc and in Unison using only one voice. The result is a much more solid, stable tone. Only question - is it too loud in the mix?

This song is almost all Prophet 6 and Prophet 5, though leaning more in the P6 direction by now. There's a hint of Doepfer DE on the bridges, MIDI-matching the bass, but an octave up. Looking at my PT session files, seems I tried out Evolver for the bass, plus Korg MS-20, but those aren't in this final mix.

I didn't mean for this track to turn out so twee, by the way! The album version - recorded in a more traditional manner with 12-string guitars, electric bass and drums etc - has a pretty bright and open chord structure. The verses and chorus both bounce simply between G and D. The all-synth version here moves between G and F instead. On the piano, it sounded a bit darker, especially the little riff that rolls over the changes. Maybe it's my choice of synth tones, but this is far lighter than I'd intended it to be. Ah well! That's always been an aspect of my music - I try to go on one direction, but it's never quite up to me. Hope you enjoy the song one way or other!

https://soundcloud.com/anton-barbeau/down-around-the-radio-syntho-rough-mix/s-M89y4
 

[Manbird]

Hi gang - this is more a sales-pitch/plea than a Your Music post, so I won't share it there. I'm running a pre-order campaign for Manbird, a double album I'm releasing later this year. I know one or two folks in the Sequential forum have bought albums from me in the past, so I figured it'd be worth mentioning the new album/campaign here. There's a Soundcloud link on the main page with a splice/dice run through of several songs on the album and on the Update page you can see pics of my two recording spaces, both loaded with synths and stuff. Prophet 5, Prophet 6, Pro One, Drumtraks and Evolver amongst. While I always favour my Sequential gear in most recordings these days, Manbird has its share of Korg Prologue-heavy tracks as well. Screechy and nasal? That'll be the Korg! Synths aside, there's a fair share of 12-string guitars, slick and cheap drums, guest vocalists etc with cello and penny whistle on the alt. version of the title track, and some psychedelic freakery from Bryan Poole (Elf Power/Of Montreal) to wind down disk 2. I hope you'll stop by the Manbird site. Thanks!

http://manbird.antonbarbeau.com/

[Manbird]

I think this thread is sufficiently hidden in the ferns and an update won't be seen as too obnoxious.

I'm very pleased to say that Manbird, my genre/time/space/canal-spanning double album is released today!
While not an electronic album, there are synths galore, with the Prophet 6 getting the most time on tape.

Downloadable everywhere/anywhere, but CDs are only via Bandcamp for the moment. The double CD includes a White Album-inspired fold-out lyric/photo-collage poster. I think we've brought LP vibes back into the world of the compact disk.

For further, please visit: http://manbird.antonbarbeau.com/

[LPF83]

I'm a little late on this thread but really dig your work!  Particularly Magazine Street.. both as a P5/P6 comparison and just the tune itself.  I too prefer the P5 version, but I feel the differences are mostly increased range of filters -- i.e. not exactly the same chips in P5/P6 and thus the overall result could potentially be made more similar if desired.

One thing I see a lot in synth comparisons (not yours necessarily but a lot of vids) is comparing Synth A at 50% of some knob value versus Synth B at 50% value of same knob, which doesn't take into consideration the potential range of each synth parameter and isn't a valid comparison.  I've found it better to do the match using ear or oscilloscope -- and even then EQ work might be needed for an apples to oranges compare job.

I'm curious if you like the after touch feature on the P6?  That's one item that I consider "big" that the P5 didn't have, it adds a whole new modulation dimension.

[Manbird]

I'm a little late on this thread but really dig your work!  Particularly Magazine Street.. both as a P5/P6 comparison and just the tune itself.  I too prefer the P5 version, but I feel the differences are mostly increased range of filters -- i.e. not exactly the same chips in P5/P6 and thus the overall result could potentially be made more similar if desired.

One thing I see a lot in synth comparisons (not yours necessarily but a lot of vids) is comparing Synth A at 50% of some knob value versus Synth B at 50% value of same knob, which doesn't take into consideration the potential range of each synth parameter and isn't a valid comparison.  I've found it better to do the match using ear or oscilloscope -- and even then EQ work might be needed for an apples to oranges compare job.

I'm curious if you like the after touch feature on the P6?  That's one item that I consider "big" that the P5 didn't have, it adds a whole new modulation dimension.

Thanks! "Magazine Street" has always been a guitar song, so it was quite fun converting it. Have to say - I've done other P5/P6 battle tracks, and while my bias in my heart is for the classic P5, once I spend enough time working up a Prophet 6 version, I nowadays end up going with it. The P6 doesn't quite have the "beautiful blur" of the 5, but it's now my go-to 9 times out of 8.9.

I've got a P6 here in Cal with the P5, and a P6 in Berlin where my Pro One lives. I've certainly done a few "dial to dial" comparisons, but it really does come down to adjusting by ear, and then deciding that each synth is its own entity! I can get the P6 close to both other synths, but there's no denying that the Prophet 6 is on the clean side of the soap dispenser. Oddly or not, I'm finding that this cleanliness suits me most times out of ten now. Actually, Pro One and P6 together for bass is quite a sound.

I don't do much with aftertouch. It's great to have it, but I can never remember which setting I prefer and can never work out the difference between settings! That's already more effort than I can manage! So, once in a while I use it and love it for making me forget I'm not Vangelis for a few minutes!