record (and draw) automation in Logic X

[barneyfresh]

hi all

So, I have bought a Dave Smith Instruments Prophet REV2-8 synth and I love it! Its my first synth ever and the sound is sooo good.

I use Logic X as DAW. I have the REV2 hooked up with 2 XLR cables to my UAD Twin and a USB cable goes to my computer.

In Logic X I use the synth through the ’external instrument’ plugin that comes with Logic X.

I was wondering the following

I can play.. I can also record the synth from another audio channel and record the twisting and turning I do while recording. So I end up with a new audio file so to speak. So using it in sort of a ’live-mode’ I can do. Thats really cool cause I am not used to that, coming from all in the box. The ’what you play and record is what you get’ sort of thing is exciting!

But I can’t seem to record or draw automation for the REV.

I also tried putting the channel on ’touch’ or ’read’. But it just doesn’t record the automation for the twists I am doing on the synth. The 'external instrument' plugin only shows a parameter for the volume input..

With plugin synths I get to draw or record automation parameters like ’cutoff’ or ’release’ (named as such in the dropdown on that certain channel.

In the past there were some plugins that even have vague non-specified CC MIDI parameters. Something I would assume the REV had, like pressing the dropdown menu on the ’external instrument’ plugin and have a ton of non specified parameters that make sense once you have the channel on ’touch’ mode and twist knobs to see what corresponds with which parameter.

I figured: the usb cable must be for something like that right? Having the synth communicate to the DAW?

I think it all might be a Logic X thing I am not doing properly though.

Hope someone can shed some light

Thanks!!! Bart

[kobuz]

I think it is part a logic thing and part a prophet thing. I global mode you should set the  MIDI Param Send to midi. In Logic working with external synths works a little different than with plugins. You can't just pick a cc value and automate it on you channel. You can automate (and will records there) within a region. Its a different approach which can also work nice since your automatisch will be copied/looped if you do the same with the region. Another approach would be to insert a separate midi track for you automations if you realy want to be able to create automation withtout thinking about regions.

[barneyfresh]

Hi Kobuz,

Thanks for taking the time to respond! OK, I will have a look at that! Hope I can make it work.

Or else I will be back.... 

[kobuz]

Good luck, took me a while to figure it all out hehe. When I embraced the fact that the midi can be automated within the regions instead of using an extra midi track, working with external synths became a lot more fun again. (within logic that is, working with external synths is always fun )

[barneyfresh]

Thanks!
Oh yes, having a synth now is amazing. Don't know why i didn't get one sooner!!
Coming from all plugins I do need to change my workflow a bit (hence my question about the automation)

cheers
bart

[Gerry Havinga]

Thanks!
Oh yes, having a synth now is amazing. Don't know why i didn't get one sooner!!
Coming from all plugins I do need to change my workflow a bit (hence my question about the automation)

cheers
bart

Great to hear you are having fun Bart. I myself find working with "real" hardware a lot more rewarding than plugins and/or software synths.

I am not a Logic user so I don't know how good it's MIDI automation is. Just make sure you understand the differences between MIDI CC and MIDI NRPN messages. NRPN (Non-Registered Parameter Numbers) have a higher resolution (more than 7 bits) and therefore give more control over the synths parameters. But they are not standard and are specific to each instrument. The Rev2 can be switched between responding to CC or NRPN messages.

I have just upgraded my DAW to Bitwig version 2, which does have a lot more MIDI automation facilities for external instruments than the previous version of Bitwig. I will be trying out some automation myself soon. Just keep us updated on how you are getting on 

[barneyfresh]

Yes! I found it and it worked!
It took me some time. But now I have another question.

On the REV2 in the global settings, I switch MIDI Control to OFF. Now I can play sounds and record my knob twisting!

But when played back there is no sound. Only when I switch MIDI Control to ON I hear what I just recorded. But then I cant play notes anymore..

Is there a way that it does both? play notes on the keyboard and play the recorded notes when pressing play..

EDIT: I think I found it , by putting Local Control to OFF

[barneyfresh]

And thanks Gerry for answering!!

[kobuz]

EDIT: I think I found it , by putting Local Control to OFF

Yup, that's it, otherwise you would create a midi loop. So the rev is sending midi to logic, logic sends it back and without local off, rev would sent it back again (etc etc). Only downside from that is the fact you need to be on the channel of the rev2 in order to have it make sound.

[Murphy]

What are some other DAWs (or software packages) that do a good job of MIDI automation and MIDI workflow? This has been a helpful thread for me and while I might end up getting Logic or Bitwig, I would like to know more before I buy another piece of software. Every piece of software has issues, but wonder what software seems to be the most flexible, useful and works well for MIDI automation and or DAW. Bitwig sure seems popular, as best as I can tell.

[jazzygb1]

What are some other DAWs (or software packages) that do a good job of MIDI automation and MIDI workflow? This has been a helpful thread for me and while I might end up getting Logic or Bitwig, I would like to know more before I buy another piece of software. Every piece of software has issues, but wonder what software seems to be the most flexible, useful and works well for MIDI automation and or DAW. Bitwig sure seems popular, as best as I can tell.

Oh wow, that's a can of worms!

Getting people talking about DAWs is even more fiery than Mac v PC! 

To answer your question all modern DAWs do a pretty good job with MIDI these days, which one is best is just down to personal preference.

Cubase, Logic, Pro Tools, FL Studio, Ableton Live, Reaper or Studio 1 should all meet your needs from a technical point of view.

I'm not familiar with how all the above DAWs handle more involved MIDI setups, but with just one external MIDI synth all will be fine.

FWIW I use Logic X with 9 external synths (two of which are Prophets) and have never had any issues with automation.

These links might prove helpful...

https://9to5mac.com/2015/07/19/logic-how-to-hardware-external-plug-in/

http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php?topic=1088.0

[Murphy]

Oh wow, that's a can of worms!

Getting people talking about DAWs is even more fiery than Mac v PC! 

To answer your question all modern DAWs do a pretty good job with MIDI these days, which one is best is just down to personal preference.

Thanks for the links and I guess I should have known I was walking into a hornet's nest! I use both PC and Mac software, but my fastest machine is a Mac, so that's probably what I'll use. I'll check out the links you mentioned and do some more research. I think I am going to download Bitwig and see what I can learn in demo mode and check out anything else I can use in demo mode. I need to do my homework, but I always appreciate other people's experience.