Midi craziness

[backbeatdeano]

Hey guys,

So I've just got my Prophet 6, and I'm trying to use it in a track I'm making. I've recorded in some midi notes via USB, which plays back fine. I then recorded in moving the LPF & Res via midi, and when it plays back, I get a load of garbled mess. I recorded the knobs in a slow sweep up then down, and looking back at what's recorded, it's all over the place!

It appears that the P6 is sending a load of weird messages, and is acting very strangely!

I'm using with ableton on Windows.
Have a look a picture to see what number messages it's sending. Doesn't seem to correspond to the LPF cutoff or res.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r4qam0hw7kkdujq/Photo%2005-08-2017%2C%2009%2009%2049.jpg?dl=0

For some reason the octave of the OSC 1 Freq changed by itself after recording data in.

The channels it seems to be sending messages on are -

98- NRPN LSB
6- Data Entry
38- Data Entry Fine
99- NRPN MSB

The only controls I touched were LPF Cutoff & Res.

Can anyone help? Currently can't use it in my track because of this midi mentalness.

Thanks guys. Desperate to get this in a track!

[Benzebub]

This sounds like a MIDI feedback loop. It happens when you send MIDI from the synth that gets sent back to the synth by the DAW. You need to make sure that the incoming MIDI signals are not being sent back to the synth while recording. If you cannot do that the easiest way is to turn off local control on the synth. When you do that the controls get sent by MIDI and does not affect the synth. It only affects the synth when it gets sent back as incoming MIDI from the DAW to the synth. Hope my explanation makes sense and is not too confusing.

[backbeatdeano]

Thanks for the speedy reply! I'll double check the output isn't getting sent back at the same time, I'm not sure it was though.

So if I turn local control off, I won't actually be able to hear the parameters I'm turning until they are being played back right?  This doesn't sound like the best solution, as it takes away the hands-on-ness of owning an analog synth, which is exactly why I got it!  Could be a good short term solution tho!  Thank you. Will holla back when I see wa gwan!
👍

[Benzebub]

Thanks for the speedy reply! I'll double check the output isn't getting sent back at the same time, I'm not sure it was though.

So if I turn local control off, I won't actually be able to hear the parameters I'm turning until they are being played back right?  This doesn't sound like the best solution, as it takes away the hands-on-ness of owning an analog synth, which is exactly why I got it!  Could be a good short term solution tho!  Thank you. Will holla back when I see wa gwan!
👍

You will hear it when you tweak it, it will just pass through the DAW first before being sent back to the synth.

[backbeatdeano]

So the problem is that when im monitoring through ableton when a mix is fully loaded up, i get latency when i turn local control off and monitor through ableton. I shouldn't actually have to do this. All i want to do is turn the cutoff knob, and record 1 knobs worth of Midi cc. At the moment as soon as i record any midi, and then hit stop, and then play, the oscillators completely change pitch, and everything goes weird, and then lose the sound i was working on, and feel completely uninspired!! Bummer.

Any other ideas? Firmware update?

[abstrx]

I hear you on round trip MIDI latency and realtime recording. I haven't experienced Live recording random values for other NPRN/CCs, but you could try stacking a couple of M4L utilities - TBTAHG's MIDI ch router + http://www.maxforlive.com/library/device/377/midi-filter. other DAWs do have better MIDI filters built in, but the key is making it quick to switch between settings for immediate playback or overdubbing.

Or could trying mapping a MIDI learn control in Live on another controller pot to mute the MIDI return?

Or go hardware and put a MIDI kill switch in line to your MIDI return to the P6 (search Etsy for MIDIup - I don't own one but have thought about it, or making one.
Or virtualize a MIDI kill sw using MIDI Solutions event proc, mapping an other CC to mute the return. Better yet filter it live based on rules w/ Bome's MIDI Translator Pro and then save the rules to Bome's hw box (event proc on steroids).

but it would be nice if it wasn't an issue to begin with. Do you have the same issue with other synths?

- for ref https://cycling74.com/forums/filtering-midi-messages/

[backbeatdeano]

I've got a monologue and a moog sub37, and they both work as expected with no problems, which is why I'm thinking something weird is going on with the synth?

[abstrx]

deano -
I tried to recreate your random CC playback issue with live 9 and P6, but didn't have a problem.
Here's a small .zip with the live set for you to load and compare. I included shots of the Live MIDI i/o and track settings and txt file of my current onboard Global MIDI settings on the P6.

If you enable the "E" MIDI envelope view in Live you can see the only controller that recorded is 102/cutoff.

If you want to play it back w the same patch I used just load the .syx in the zip - writes to patch 001 which is what the midi clip points to.

Were you using the DIN MIDI i/o or USB?

If CC output/playback behaves differently between USB and DIN with all other settings the same (other than Globals all set to all USb or all MId) then I would definitely open up a support case.

The patch I included is pretty basic, so no tricky CC's should be firing off in the background. Feel free to switch off filter Velocity and AT if you want to make it even more basic, and make sure mod wheel is at 0.
You could also try using a MIDI event view / MIDI monitor app to see if other CCs/NRPNs are being sent. I suppose there could be some hardware fault on a pot that is sending voltage/values even when it's not being touched?

[backbeatdeano]

Thanks so much for this abstrx! I'll get up in the studio tonight and see what happens!