Oscillator Issues

Propheteer

Re: Oscillator Issues
« Reply #100 on: September 21, 2017, 04:17:29 PM »
Often effects are used to mask or make up for deficiencies in the main synth engine

Or deficiencies in ones playing .. like a mediocre pianist using the sustain pedal on Bach 3 part inventions  ::)

Are you seriously equating the (over) use and band-aiding addition of more than a couple of FX on synthesizers with a sustain pedal on a piano, and then rolling your eyes at me for saying FX often bandaided over an inadequate synth engine (and having owned almost 100 synths I can assure you in many cases that is true though mostly on digital synths). Weird. Also I wasn't talking abou spec or engine depth (of digital) jesus I've owned and loved a ton of digital synths, still have them, I just don't rate VAs or Hybrids, I hate their sound frankly, they all have a simliar plastic tone and everyone who buys one tries to make 'analog sounds' with them and they grate on my ears, if doing what they excell at (digital explorations) then great, just don't hold it up to a rev 2 or any analog VCO or DCO and expect people like myself to not point out you are NOT getting the same analog feel/sound/mojo out of those digital oscs no matter how cool the analog filter. It's as plain as day to those with decent hearing left!

Piano wise, I play the piano too and have for years, I sure as hell appreciate the pedals, not sure at all what that had to do with sacrificing LFOS for tacked on FX on DIGITAL oscs, context escapes me sorry, also not sure why you came at me like that when I was basically telling the other guy to put a sock in it about his peak and get back to the novation forums cos we are ACTUAL owners trying to sort an issue, one that while important doesn't actually kill my love for this great instrument in any way. It really does sound great, even for DCO, in fact it has a refinement often lacking in the many VCOs I've owned, which are good for their thing, here we have a very well rounded instrument, stable, flexible and capable of some beautiful sounds.

To that other guy, please I'm so bored of you talking about the peak (btw I was actually thinking more of the Deepmind 12 in my comment about overuse of FX on a sub-par analog synth engine as I clearly wrote, the peak wasn't about the FX but more about the general generic plastic tone of digital oscs) in a specific PROPHET REV 2 board and thread pertaining to an analog synth called the rev 2. Please stop talking about your hybrid digital osc wannabe analog synth here cos it's making us all go off topic. Not sure what you expected from certified rev2 owners by coming in here saying peak is somehow god's gift to synths while berating the REV2 when they are different types of synths and for many of us we are just not interested, got it? If all I wanted was 3 oscs or tons of power I'd go software and get 100 oscs or w/e. I wanted analog as does anyone else who chose the rev2 or they'd probably have spent less for a lesser sound. I'm well over my VA/Hybrid phase. Digital oscs leave me cold when attempting to mimic analog, even more so when pushed through analog filters ending up sounding like plastic. I like digital synths to not try to mimick analog.

Could we get back to the IMPORTANT topic of REV 2 osc issues, some of us are trying to actually work out how to proceed, maybe you could pop along to the peak forum seeing how you don't even own a rev2 any more and seem to be here just to wind people up and talk about how great a digital osc synth is for your needs. Novation... good luck with that build quality, have had a few of those synths in the past, they won't last. DSI are like rolls royce next to them!

Oh and I've only just read that everyone else agreed to get back on topic, so am sorry for me ANSWERING these points as I've only just got back here after some time away from home. I won't mention that stupid peak again or reply about it. We need to focus on this issue as I'm supposed to be making a call on whether it's worth them sending me the new board or not (with same pulse but better triangle) soon!

« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 04:28:36 PM by Propheteer »

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Oscillator Issues
« Reply #101 on: September 21, 2017, 04:59:47 PM »
As part of an effort to cool off here and again get back on track, I'd encourage whoever is interested to continue the discussion on the Novation Peak thread.  Unfortunately, the present comments were too irritated to be used as a basis for the new thread.

http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,1866.new.html#new
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 05:11:43 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Oscillator Issues
« Reply #102 on: September 22, 2017, 02:38:00 PM »
Ok now your trolling for an off topic response and I'm not going to play. I apologized twice and repented a page back for contributing to the off topic devolution of this thread, and brought it back on topic. I've got a Rev 2 16 from Sweetwater arriving this coming Monday. There is a new report today of a new owner on gearslutz having the same issue being reported in this thread. Its a bit worrying, but I'm not going to sweat it should mine act the same. I'll simply return it to Sweetwater and move on (probably will get a P06 and OB6) So I will not be monitoring this particular thread anymore, but I sincerely wish the best of luck to all you who have chose to stick it out and wait for a possible solution. Peace

   
Often effects are used to mask or make up for deficiencies in the main synth engine

Or deficiencies in ones playing .. like a mediocre pianist using the sustain pedal on Bach 3 part inventions  ::)

Are you seriously equating the (over) use and band-aiding addition of more than a couple of FX on synthesizers with a sustain pedal on a piano, and then rolling your eyes at me for saying FX often bandaided over an inadequate synth engine (and having owned almost 100 synths I can assure you in many cases that is true though mostly on digital synths). Weird. Also I wasn't talking abou spec or engine depth (of digital) jesus I've owned and loved a ton of digital synths, still have them, I just don't rate VAs or Hybrids, I hate their sound frankly, they all have a simliar plastic tone and everyone who buys one tries to make 'analog sounds' with them and they grate on my ears, if doing what they excell at (digital explorations) then great, just don't hold it up to a rev 2 or any analog VCO or DCO and expect people like myself to not point out you are NOT getting the same analog feel/sound/mojo out of those digital oscs no matter how cool the analog filter. It's as plain as day to those with decent hearing left!

Piano wise, I play the piano too and have for years, I sure as hell appreciate the pedals, not sure at all what that had to do with sacrificing LFOS for tacked on FX on DIGITAL oscs, context escapes me sorry, also not sure why you came at me like that when I was basically telling the other guy to put a sock in it about his peak and get back to the novation forums cos we are ACTUAL owners trying to sort an issue, one that while important doesn't actually kill my love for this great instrument in any way. It really does sound great, even for DCO, in fact it has a refinement often lacking in the many VCOs I've owned, which are good for their thing, here we have a very well rounded instrument, stable, flexible and capable of some beautiful sounds.

To that other guy, please I'm so bored of you talking about the peak (btw I was actually thinking more of the Deepmind 12 in my comment about overuse of FX on a sub-par analog synth engine as I clearly wrote, the peak wasn't about the FX but more about the general generic plastic tone of digital oscs) in a specific PROPHET REV 2 board and thread pertaining to an analog synth called the rev 2. Please stop talking about your hybrid digital osc wannabe analog synth here cos it's making us all go off topic. Not sure what you expected from certified rev2 owners by coming in here saying peak is somehow god's gift to synths while berating the REV2 when they are different types of synths and for many of us we are just not interested, got it? If all I wanted was 3 oscs or tons of power I'd go software and get 100 oscs or w/e. I wanted analog as does anyone else who chose the rev2 or they'd probably have spent less for a lesser sound. I'm well over my VA/Hybrid phase. Digital oscs leave me cold when attempting to mimic analog, even more so when pushed through analog filters ending up sounding like plastic. I like digital synths to not try to mimick analog.

Could we get back to the IMPORTANT topic of REV 2 osc issues, some of us are trying to actually work out how to proceed, maybe you could pop along to the peak forum seeing how you don't even own a rev2 any more and seem to be here just to wind people up and talk about how great a digital osc synth is for your needs. Novation... good luck with that build quality, have had a few of those synths in the past, they won't last. DSI are like rolls royce next to them!

Oh and I've only just read that everyone else agreed to get back on topic, so am sorry for me ANSWERING these points as I've only just got back here after some time away from home. I won't mention that stupid peak again or reply about it. We need to focus on this issue as I'm supposed to be making a call on whether it's worth them sending me the new board or not (with same pulse but better triangle) soon!

Re: Oscillator Issues
« Reply #103 on: September 22, 2017, 03:26:37 PM »
Guys, as I already mentioned, I experience the same problem with a prophet 08 PE. I would like to ask if anybody here got the problem resolved by fixing the synth (either on their own with DSI guidelines, or by DSI), OR, did DSI replace all of those synths. I bought mine from Thomann almost a year ago. If they need to replace it, I am afraid it's not going to be possible since it's out of production...

Re: Oscillator Issues
« Reply #104 on: September 22, 2017, 05:47:22 PM »
Guys, as I already mentioned, I experience the same problem with a prophet 08 PE. I would like to ask if anybody here got the problem resolved by fixing the synth (either on their own with DSI guidelines, or by DSI), OR, did DSI replace all of those synths. I bought mine from Thomann almost a year ago. If they need to replace it, I am afraid it's not going to be possible since it's out of production...

DSI will be able to help you.
The Prophet 08 has only recently been replaced so I doubt there will be any problems getting it fixed.
Just contact them at support@davesmithinstruments.com.
Good luck.

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Oscillator Issues
« Reply #105 on: September 22, 2017, 07:47:32 PM »
I've got a Rev 2 16 from Sweetwater arriving this coming Monday. There is a new report today of a new owner on gearslutz having the same issue being reported in this thread. Its a bit worrying, but I'm not going to sweat it should mine act the same. I'll simply return it to Sweetwater and move on (probably will get a P06 and OB6)

Cloudswimmer, I certainly wouldn't discourage you from doing what you think best, but don't you think it's rather soon to give up on the Rev2?  Presuming you like the instrument itself, why not persevere until you have a flawless unit?  The vast majority of Rev2 owners are happy with there instruments.  The problems are the exception, not the norm.

Re: Oscillator Issues
« Reply #106 on: September 24, 2017, 02:08:52 PM »
I've got a Rev 2 16 from Sweetwater arriving this coming Monday. There is a new report today of a new owner on gearslutz having the same issue being reported in this thread. Its a bit worrying, but I'm not going to sweat it should mine act the same. I'll simply return it to Sweetwater and move on (probably will get a P06 and OB6)

Cloudswimmer, I certainly wouldn't discourage you from doing what you think best, but don't you think it's rather soon to give up on the Rev2?  Presuming you like the instrument itself, why not persevere until you have a flawless unit?  The vast majority of Rev2 owners are happy with there instruments.  The problems are the exception, not the norm.

Hi Sacred Synthesis, it was your Prophet 08 work on youtube that inspired me to try a Prophet Rev 2, great work and very similar in style to my own. Yes perhaps I will ride it out .. thankyou for your encouragement and youtube videos ✝
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 02:18:20 PM by cloudswimmer »

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Oscillator Issues
« Reply #107 on: September 24, 2017, 04:05:46 PM »
Thanks, Cloudswimmer.  That's right; I only mean to encourage you to be patient.  The P'08 is such a superb musical instrument, and the Rev2 is even better.  In the beginning, I had some serious problems with my first two P'08's (erratic encoders), but I didn't give up on DSI.  In the end, they wonderfully resolved the issue with the potentiometer edition.  I'm so glad I persisted with what is now my favorite synthesizer.  So, don't quit until you've held a perfect Rev2 in your hands.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 11:59:10 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

Propheteer

Re: Oscillator Issues
« Reply #108 on: September 25, 2017, 03:16:14 AM »
Ok now your trolling for an off topic response and I'm not going to play.


Excuse me? YOU trolled ME you hypocrite! I hadn't even addressed you until you quoted me and laid into me about sustain pedals (actually you were so vague I'm not even sure if you were actually agreeing with me or attempting to take the piss out of me for daring to state synths sometimes pile on too many FX?). Had you made that clearer I may even have overlooked it but the eyerolling emoticon seemed aimed at me and you wonder why you got the response you did? Some of my venom was aimed at peak boy with his 'don't make a fool of yourself' when it's clearly he who is the fool if he truly believes any digital osc synth can sound more analog (ergo "better" in this context) than a DCO or VCO synth. I pity his ears if he truly can't hear how insipid those peak pads and bass are, dear god it's like a soft synth from 5 years ago stuck through a half decent (only half mind) filter. I assume he's just trying to justify his switch to that nasty hunk of junk from the glorious rev 2 because he misses rev2 more than he claims (or why would he still be here?).. anyway, my annoyance should have been more directed at him but I'm sick of talking to him, HE's the troll not me.

I was in this thread first, talking only about the osc issue and trying to find how hard it was to get a good board/fix. YOU entered out the blue and started stirring things up along with peak-boy. I wasn't here last week to reply at the time so had to after the fact, not my fault you couldn't keep your anecdotes to yourself and then got a response. As for trolling for off-topic responses? Believe me I just wish you and peak boy had not gone there in the first place, it's hard enough trying to get to the bottom of this without daft - way off topic - piano talk or plastic hybrid synth talk.

YOU don't own a rev 2 (yet), peak boy no longer owns one, *I* do so please wind yer neck in and stop telling me what I was trying to do (or not) when I'm merely replying in kind to a pair of weirdos who seemed to find fault in me stating the FACT that some synths tend to overdose on FX to mask engine deficiencies (and that really is a fact). Why on earth you took that tone with me to begin with I'll never know, I was fully behind REV2 and trying to point out to peak boy why the 2 synths in question (and even DM12) are all different things for different people so it's a moot point, you wade in with your unwanted take on the subject then basically tell me I'm trolling?

Please don't respond to me again.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 03:36:47 AM by Propheteer »

Propheteer

Re: Oscillator Issues
« Reply #109 on: September 25, 2017, 03:23:43 AM »
Right back on topic and pretty pisssed off now by these noobs telling me what I'm trying to do or not do, all I want is a fixed synth and I'll leave, pretty simple.

I have the option to accept a new board, but have been told it still has the same pulse issue but better/non triangle issue. My concern is the time/expense of returning the original board + fitting it only to find that it's still got a problem (pulse) that many others seem to have confirmed they don't have! My issue with this is if the board they tested does have that, and other boards don't why don't DSI just get more boards in until they find a perfect one then send me that? Isn't that the point of support to do the pre-testing and find a good one, or find the problem and fix it, and then help the customer? I'm really in no mood to playing synth lottery with returns yet I do really LOVE this synth, it's one of the best I've ever had and extremely useful (and I far prefer it to the Prophet 6 and OB6 even if it's only DCO it's just a much better overal synthesizer and does still sound great), I've basically just buried my mum after a few months of much heartache, inquests and other stuff.. some of her money left to me bought this synth which I've considered as a 'gift' as she was always supportive of my music, I don't want to end up with a bad unit that people think is broken in future. And given the above I've very little patience left with forum eejits badgering me and quoting me then telling me I'm the one trolling so please zip it or you'll discover the meaning of real trolling.


DSI are you capable of finding a mainboard that exhibits none of these issues or can you finally confirm that ALL rev2s do in fact have the pulse issue and that it may be correctable in software? I'm stuck in limbo on this and its dragging on now and feel I've been left to make a hard choice when really I just want a 100% correct mainboard like many others appear to have.

Thanks
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 03:34:02 AM by Propheteer »

Re: Oscillator Issues
« Reply #110 on: September 25, 2017, 03:53:25 AM »
I contacted support cause the pulse issue and have been told that it is no issue at all and everything is fine.
IMac Mid 2013, Cubase 9Pro, Prophet Rev 2 8voice

Propheteer

Re: Oscillator Issues
« Reply #111 on: September 25, 2017, 03:56:21 AM »
I contacted support cause the pulse issue and have been told that it is no issue at all and everything is fine.

Ok, so some in this thread said they didn't have the issue, this is what's causing an 'issue' because if some don't have it and some do, then those with rev2s that do will have 'lesser' rev2s that are seen as faulty in times to come (much like Prophet 08s with dodgy encoders were). Not good for resale or even if keeping it and knowing others have a perfect one.

Could it be that they ALL have it really and those that said they didn't just didn't test it fully? hmmm. TBH I wouldn't mind that so much because it's not a killer issue at all in most cases, though the triangle fault could be more often.

And are you fine with that answer from DSI? The pulse thing seems like a non-issue in many many cases but for others who had it worse it certainly wasn't (when more than one key/voice didn't even sound)
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 04:10:02 AM by Propheteer »

Re: Oscillator Issues
« Reply #112 on: September 25, 2017, 06:06:51 AM »
I am new to Synthesis and the Rev 2 is my first hardware Synth so I don't know how things work or should work and I cannot compare. So yes I am fine with the answer and when creating patches I never had the issue. It just happens when I init the patch select pulse and turn the shape full left or right. So no problem under normal conditions.
IMac Mid 2013, Cubase 9Pro, Prophet Rev 2 8voice

Propheteer

Re: Oscillator Issues
« Reply #113 on: September 25, 2017, 06:36:24 AM »
I am new to Synthesis and the Rev 2 is my first hardware Synth so I don't know how things work or should work and I cannot compare. So yes I am fine with the answer and when creating patches I never had the issue. It just happens when I init the patch select pulse and turn the shape full left or right. So no problem under normal conditions.

Thanks, am glad you confirmed that you have the issue at the extremes of shape mod, as those of us with the problem all seem to. I'd love to set up a poll on who has that issue and who doesn't so we can see if it's like 100 to 1 good to bad ratio (so we know we should/deserve a working board) or if it's basically everyone with the pulse 'issue'. And your triangle is ok (pretty much uniform sound throughout all the voices)? Maybe it's worth the board swap then for that but I'll be paying return postage from uk to us on an expensive part, I really didn't factor that in when I bought this synth to get on with music!

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Oscillator Issues
« Reply #114 on: September 25, 2017, 12:06:31 PM »
Fellas -

Once again, it's abundantly clear that a couple of you guys have a strong disagreement.  That's fine.  Discuss your differing perspectives here to your hearts' content.  We all do it and with passion.  But now the comments are getting increasingly insulting and the language is getting rude.  Cool off, come to your senses, discuss and disagree as gentlemen, or else, avoid each other.  Otherwise, your worst posts will be edited or deleted.  Nobody wants to read this sort of rubbish.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 12:17:10 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Propheteer

Re: Oscillator Issues
« Reply #115 on: September 25, 2017, 12:26:44 PM »


Couldn't be any clearer Mr Mod. I'll no longer engage anyone who tries to bait me or talks about other stuff in this thread. Simple stuff really.

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Oscillator Issues
« Reply #116 on: September 25, 2017, 12:45:54 PM »
Couldn't be any clearer Mr Mod. I'll no longer engage anyone who tries to bait me or talks about other stuff in this thread. Simple stuff really.

That's reasonable enough.  I have no desire to spoil your discussion with an intervention.  Post away.  And I'm very sorry to hear about your mother, Propheteer.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 01:20:27 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Oscillator Issues
« Reply #117 on: September 25, 2017, 01:27:25 PM »


Couldn't be any clearer Mr Mod. I'll no longer engage anyone who tries to bait me or talks about other stuff in this thread. Simple stuff really.

The triangle sounding like a saw...that's a faulty voice chip.

If that's what you have then you'll need to either get it fixed or (as I did), get a replacement REV2.

The Pulse wave not sounding at the extreme values is normal (even happens on my Prophet 12 which has digital oscillators).

If your only issue is the pulse wave not sounding at the extremes of a shape mod, then your REV2 is not faulty.

It's an analogue synth so not every triangle voice will sound identical, but it should still sound like a triangle.

So in summary....

if your only problem is with the Pulse wave when shape Modded then it's working normally and is not faulty.

If your REV2 has a voice where a triangle sounds like a saw it is not working properly and needs to be fixed or replaced.

PS: For what it's worth the serial number of my replacement REV2 only differed from my original REV2 by one digit, so I don't believe there's a 'bad batch' as such.

The only issue I've had with my replacement REV2 is it suddenly going out of tune, but this was resolved by recalibrating the wheels and (so far at least) has been fine since.

Hope this helps.


Re: Oscillator Issues
« Reply #118 on: September 25, 2017, 02:50:54 PM »
Actually Propheteer, after reading back earlier posts I'd definitely say that your REV2 falls into the faulty category and needs to be fixed or replaced.
You need to raise it officially with DSI support and I'm sure they will (as they did with me) ask some questions and diagnose the cause and then hopefully arrange a replacement REV2, or a replacement board (whatever is easiest/best).

Good luck!
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 02:52:57 PM by jazzygb1 »

Propheteer

Re: Oscillator Issues
« Reply #119 on: September 25, 2017, 03:05:28 PM »
thanks guys and thanks about my mum.

Yes mine is def faulty, but the mainboard that tech got into send to me didn't sound 100% on triangle anyway.. tbh without having it in front of me and testing it myself it seems hard to get exact definition of what 'a bit off' or 'as expected' means, my problem is if I have the new board I have to send the old one back (at my own expense) from UK to the US, but if I try to swap with my retailer I have to wait around a possible 2 more days (collection and then new one) when am quite busy with music and don't like sitting in silence for couriers. And even then there's no guarantee that swap wouldn't have the issue or other issues so I guess all I can do is go for the board and eat the costs of returning the other one (even though none of this is my fault). As said, I felt stuck between a rock and a hard place with no 100% guaranteed fixed board to be sent to me, tech did describe it in detail to his credit but, I dunno, DSI themselves should know if they are sending out a perfect or 'as expected' board to me rather than me have to do mind gymnastics to decide on the best course of action or if I'll end up with a still futzed board just not quite as bad...

was very busy last week so didn't have time to even think about it til today really. And yes, one of my triangle voices (same exact voice as the pulse has issues with) tends to sound more like a saw when set up as per the test.

I was writing on here (more than support @ DSI) still trying to work out what the deal is with everyone's rev2 and what is acceptable as 'normal' but does seem everyone has the pulse issue to some degree. I hope any replacement board doesn't increase the damage from the one voice to two voices + cost me money too. If the synth wasn't so damn good I'd have just returned it by now, but I can't, it's a cracker! :)


*and most definitely sounds and reacts like a full bodied, rich analog synth, with the best/liveliest DCOs I've ever personally heard (using the new slop), can get very close to a VCO richness, though not rawness, which is fine as I don't always want that or need that in most cases.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 03:08:49 PM by Propheteer »