Did Roland just become retarded?

cbx

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Did Roland just become retarded?
« on: June 16, 2017, 07:03:00 PM »
I think they were angry that people used their products in non-serious ways. Because, I have this Roland MC-808 I got to experiment with as an external sequencer. But it was clearly designed out of great hatred by Roland for it's users. If I had paid $1500 for this new I would be very angry.

Just trying to copy a part from one pattern to another, reveals the intense anger Roland had for people. You have to edit it on computer, but you can't edit the pattern data. You must do all sorts of button pushing and knob turning to export and import SMF and there is no love in this.

It is a good sequencer though once you figure out how to use it, but it's design is really evil.

megamarkd

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Re: Did Roland just become retarded?
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2017, 08:10:57 PM »
I dunno if retarded is the right word, but Roland do have a habit of making on-board sequencers that are rather tedious to use.  I wouldn't say it is a recent thing either, look at the sequencer on the TB-303.
Their drum machines were always the opposite though, with the TR's setting the standard for drum programming interfaces.  I sorely regret selling my R-70 when the output stage died as it was one hell of a drum sequencer.  My RY-30 my has infinitely better instrument synthesis with digital filters that sound pretty authentic for the era it came from, but it's sequencer could be better.

It's interesting you should pick on their groovebox sequencers, as in my mind the retarded thing about Roland is their inability to just make a no frills recreation of their 80's legacy without ruining it somehow.  The grooveboxes were pretty good really, especially thinking about them coming at the beginning of the VA revolution.  That range lasted as long as it did because they were a great performance range (once the sequencer was mastered!)  But this latest range of recreations although sounding better than the MC range (COSM was horrible!) are not the performance machines the MC's were.

If Roland could just make them the way they were and add MIDI timing functionality to those that had none.  Not make them smaller or with added oscillators or a "best of" half-half machine.  If anything put a small led 6 digit display to indicate what step (303) or what tempo or what MIDI mode.  Hang-on, MIDI mode....I might have to stop on the topic of Roland and MIDI, I may explode.

chysn

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Re: Did Roland just become retarded?
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2017, 09:40:35 PM »
My first MIDI sequencer was a Roland MSQ-100. The user interface of that thing definitely left a lot to be desired. But back in those days, I was willing to jump through pretty much any hoops to do sequencing.

Later on, I had a Roland MV-30. I loved the MV-30's sequencer, with the recordable sliders for things like pan position and volume.
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cbx

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Re: Did Roland just become retarded?
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2017, 11:41:35 PM »
Yes, I have decided that the MC-808 is useless really. But, ableton live is fairly expensive ($1000), and then the laptop thing is still something I am not comfortable with. On the one side, Roland's sequencers are rock solid and never crash or bluescreen. My first experiences with trying to make music with a PC and Cubase were BSODs, audio card lockups, and having to reboot.

Unless there is some way to edit the patterns over sysex, I think the MC-808 is just a braindead box. I might donate it to Goodwill in the hopes some kid in Detroit may learn some new way to use it and make some new sound out of it ( I am kidding but not about just throwing it away)

cbx

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Re: Did Roland just become retarded?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2017, 12:17:46 AM »
Well, it is not entering the data it is editing it that is just not worth it. You can create midi files on your computer, but you must press buttons and do all this stuff to put the files on the MC-808 and then you have to do all this button to import it and you can't select where or what to overwrite. It has a microscope mode for editing but the LCD is very small. The problem was it said it had an editor, I saw it at a used shop for a fraction of the cost of a Laptop/Ableton live. I know Roland sequencers are great, and they make some good keyboards. I just don't understand why they keep making these instruments they hate based on TR-808 and TB-303.

Personally, the new TR-8 is really good. I had to get one for nostalgia, even though I really don't make that kind of music. I also got a TB-3, but have mixed opinions. The ACB modelling they use is pretty good but it still sounds like a digital not analog. As always it's just sort of flat and doesn't have the color and texture of the analog. But I since I don't reallly like acid music anyways I think digital is fine for that, maybe better because it does that sound. It just doesn't sound analog as usual, because digital just never can make a filer like analog.

So I was led to erroneously believe I could edit the patterns with the editor, but you can't. Makinng it worthless. If my USB uno device didn't lock up I would feel more confident sequencing on a computer but I wish I could see well enough to build a midibox.

cbx

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Re: Did Roland just become retarded?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2017, 03:42:40 AM »
Ok, well I am just using it now for real time recording. Importing SMF and trying to copy stuff around is just too difficult on this. It is the same sequencer as the Juno-G and Fantom and those are really good keyboard workstations, so why they didn't have an editor for patterns in the software? I don't know what is up with Roland these days but the new boutique stuff looks cute. I like these tiny things now, my little tiny lab space is way to small.

megamarkd

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Re: Did Roland just become retarded?
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2017, 02:20:43 AM »
My first MIDI sequencer was a Roland MSQ-100. The user interface of that thing definitely left a lot to be desired. But back in those days, I was willing to jump through pretty much any hoops to do sequencing.

Later on, I had a Roland MV-30. I loved the MV-30's sequencer, with the recordable sliders for things like pan position and volume.

Never heard of the MV-30 until now.  It looks like a pretty nifty box.  I have an MV-8000 and I think the sequencer is the most straight forward thing on it, surprisingly.  And, like the MV-30, the sliders are really useful for doing MIDI mixing.
The size of the screen makes a big difference to the ease of use.  I had it running CC's duties before I got sick of turning it on and waiting forever for it to load it's OS just to use the sequencer.  It has some great composition tools as well, like a crescendo programmer and sweep generator.  The sampler is pretty bloody good too, but after owning an E-MU Ultra, everything else feels hobbled. 
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I have a love/hate relationship with Roland.  I love their work in the early days, they helped make synths affordable to the average musician.  Now they have sort of become obsessed with chasing the missed money their synths from 80's are making on the 2nd hand market.
In my mind, the R-70 was the pinnacle of their drum machines.  Not the R8 (or the 808 or the 909).  I've got an R8 and it's a tragic 80's studio drums module with a sequencer.  Even with the cards it still sucks.  Nothing like the R-70 to program and crappy rompler synthesis which may as well be a DR550.  In fact, I'd swap the R8 for a DR550 if the thing didn't shit the bed while it sat in a cupboard for 5yrs (powers-up to a garbled display and no sound, not the battery I tried that and decided it sucks anyway so back into the cupboard).  At least the DR550mkii has 808 samples on board.  And the only reason I'm singing the praises of the R-70 is because since the Pyramid, I've decided I don't need to chase one any more.

megamarkd

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Re: Did Roland just become retarded?
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2017, 03:15:05 AM »
What Roland have just released is definitely not retarded and deserves a double post.
https://www.rolandcorp.com.au/products/se-02/
Yeah it's a collaboration, but it sounds great and the specs look good too.  Can't get the manual yet, so don't know how much MIDI control there is over it beyond notes, but let's hope they make use of CC's at least for controlling the some of the more tweaked parameters.
From their video and as far as streaming web audio goes, it sounds pretty nice.  I hope they've manage to make something the finally puts the TB303 behind them.

Re: Did Roland just become retarded?
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2017, 01:49:06 PM »
What Roland have just released is definitely not retarded and deserves a double post.
https://www.rolandcorp.com.au/products/se-02/
Yeah it's a collaboration, but it sounds great and the specs look good too.  Can't get the manual yet, so don't know how much MIDI control there is over it beyond notes, but let's hope they make use of CC's at least for controlling the some of the more tweaked parameters.
From their video and as far as streaming web audio goes, it sounds pretty nice.  I hope they've manage to make something the finally puts the TB303 behind them.

I'm really happy to see the St. Regii getting some love–they have been quietly building some neat stuff over the years; as a side-effect, the Roland tie-ins with both SE and Malekko definitely give them some street cred outside the 61-key workstation crowd.
Sequential / DSI stuff: Prophet-6 Keyboard with Yorick Tech LFE, Prophet 12 Keyboard, Mono Evolver Keyboard, Split-Eight, Six-Trak, Prophet 2000