Recall patch from panel?

Recall patch from panel?
« on: June 09, 2017, 02:22:07 PM »
Hi there, I just got my Rev2 today and am super excited about diving in and exploring this wonderful instrument!  I was looking through the manual and trying to find out if there is a way to initialize a patch with the current position of the potentiometers?  I saw how to initialize to a global default patch either through the global settings or through the Up+Down+Hold shortcut, but wasn't sure if there was something similar to jump to the current panel positions too.  Thanks!

Re: Recall patch from panel?
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2017, 01:56:07 AM »
It doesn't seem like this feature is mentioned in the manual but I think it would be really useful to have a "live" front panel (along with compare knob values on screen!). Maybe it could be added in a future O/S update? ::)

Re: Recall patch from panel?
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2017, 10:31:07 PM »
There is no "live panel mode" on the Rev2. You can send a SysEx message to the Rev2 to request an edit buffer program dump though, as discussed on page 91 of the manual.

For the other one, you can compare knob values on screen already by using the Show and Compare functions. Press and hold the Misc Params button and turn a knob or press a button and the screen will display the current parameter value without altering it. If you wish to see what the original saved parameter value was, press the Compare button.
SEQUENTIAL | OBERHEIM

Re: Recall patch from panel?
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2017, 10:58:31 AM »
For the other one, you can compare knob values on screen already by using the Show and Compare functions. Press and hold the Misc Params button and turn a knob or press a button and the screen will display the current parameter value without altering it. If you wish to see what the original saved parameter value was, press the Compare button.

If you read what you just wrote then look at how elegantly this was handled on the original Prophet 08, do you honestly think this is an acceptable alternative?
Looking into all these bugs being reported and the things that have changed or been left out, I am glad I have held off and I don't think I will be buying this synth now. I still have my Pro 08 and love it. Having no way to copy layers between programs seems like a joke. Did any of you ever use the original Prophet 08? If you did, why would you omit these things that were brilliant about it?
On paper, this synth was going to be amazing. Such a shame :-(

Re: Recall patch from panel?
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2017, 11:47:19 AM »
If you read what you just wrote then look at how elegantly this was handled on the original Prophet 08, do you honestly think this is an acceptable alternative?
How was this handled on the Prophet 08?  Never owned one and only have tried one for about 15 mins at a shop so I didn't really explore this feature.

Re: Recall patch from panel?
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2017, 08:01:11 AM »
The Compare feature is unchanged from the Prophet '08. The Show feature is adopted from the Prophet 12 and Pro 2, so it's not much of a stretch to imagine we borrowed a feature from our newer instruments.

All new synths have a handful of bugs here and there out of the gate, it's impossible to find them all before release. We always followup with a few rounds of quick fixes so that gets sorted pretty quickly.
SEQUENTIAL | OBERHEIM

Re: Recall patch from panel?
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2017, 10:44:50 AM »
I think some of the criticism leveled here is harsh. The Rev2 is a wonderful instrument. Yes, there are bound to be small glitches with a new product. But DSI has a history improving their products with OS updates - and not just bug fixes but actual new features. My only regret is that I bought the 8 voice version but, hey, I can always upgrade to 16. That in itself is pretty cool.
Prophet Rev2, Prophet12, Yamaha MOXF8, Yamaha DX7

Re: Recall patch from panel?
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2017, 05:27:15 PM »
How was this handled on the Prophet 08?  Never owned one and only have tried one for about 15 mins at a shop so I didn't really explore this feature.

On the original Prophet 08, the current preset value and edited value are both shown onscreen without any button pressing.
Love how changing this to something much more convoluted is being explained as a feature from the Pro 12 :-) Yes, just dig your heels in and don't back down when you have made something worse than it was before.
What about copying layers between presets? Is that still off the table or is it going to be treated as a bug?

Re: Recall patch from panel?
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2017, 06:08:47 PM »
There's no point in arguing, if you don't like it that's ok. I'm not trying to convince you of anything and I'm not here to dig my heals in, I'm simply here to explain how we arrived at the design and how it works for those that are interested.
SEQUENTIAL | OBERHEIM

Re: Recall patch from panel?
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2017, 06:53:38 PM »
There's no point in arguing, if you don't like it that's ok. I'm not trying to convince you of anything and I'm not here to dig my heals in, I'm simply here to explain how we arrived at the design and how it works for those that are interested.

I am not ere to argue either. Just trying to understand why you did it. Do you honestly believe that the new implementation of showing current/edited values is somehow better? If so, how is it better that you now have to press buttons just to see what was visible before?
What about copying layers between presets? How did that miss the release FW?

Re: Recall patch from panel?
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2017, 10:12:13 PM »
You directly accused me of being combative and trying to pass off a design not to your liking as "not backing down and fighting" when I explained how the synth operates to those who asked, and I take offense to that. I made no claims as to which method was better, I simply explained the implementation.

Since you asked, I personally would have liked it if the saved parameter value was always visible and pushed for that feature. However, we're using a different display on the Rev2 and the screen real estate is sparse. Additionally we were trying to keep the build cost down to offer a lower price, so some trade offs were necessary.

We wanted to display the program name at all times so you could always change programs without having to first get back to "program mode" by pressing another switch, so that took precedence when deciding how some other features worked. We've received zero complaints regarding the Show button on the P12 and Pro 2 so that was deemed a viable option. Both of these factors contributed to the design.

I've answered questions regarding copying layers in the thread that is dedicated to that topic. If you have further questions, please ask them there.
SEQUENTIAL | OBERHEIM

Devourer

Re: Recall patch from panel?
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2017, 10:31:05 PM »
Why nitpick about a simple button press when there's certainly more constructive things to address? For instance, why aren't there more banks with some type of organization? Why not have separate banks for bells, strings, brass, pads, leads, etcetera; as well headers for user banks allowing the same type of organization & a live bank for quick recall?  These are features have been around for ages and I don't see how it would drive up the cost or be an issue with the real-estate. It's a nightmare finding patches as is.

I'm no programmer, but it seems like this could be implemented with a software update. Hopefully...
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 10:41:06 PM by Devourer »

Re: Recall patch from panel?
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2017, 01:01:12 AM »
Since you asked, I personally would have liked it if the saved parameter value was always visible and pushed for that feature. However, we're using a different display on the Rev2 and the screen real estate is sparse. Additionally we were trying to keep the build cost down to offer a lower price, so some trade offs were necessary.

We wanted to display the program name at all times so you could always change programs without having to first get back to "program mode" by pressing another switch, so that took precedence when deciding how some other features worked. We've received zero complaints regarding the Show button on the P12 and Pro 2 so that was deemed a viable option. Both of these factors contributed to the design.
At the risk of playing devil's advocate here... the parameter display part of the screen is relatively sparsely populated and is used for multiple lines of text when required.  In my opinion there's definitely room for the saved value to be displayed, but I can understand that could be at the cost of elegance and simplicity.  I'm glad that it is at least something you considered and discussed during the design process though.

Other than using OLED I don't think there's much similar between the Rev2 and P12/Pro 2 use of the display.  I hardly ever needed to use the Show button on the P12 as the system of tabbed pages made checking values relatively simple. The system of button selecting oscillators, LFOs etc. always took me to the appropriate set of tabs.  The Rev2 doesn't have that, of course, so you're much more reliant on the Show and Compare buttons.

How about slightly expanding the Show button's functionality to display both the current value and the saved value in brackets beside it?  That wouldn't break the current simplicity and clarity of the parameter display but would at least remove the need to toggle Compare to check saved values.

Re: Recall patch from panel?
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2017, 04:01:08 AM »
You directly accused me of being combative and trying to pass off a design not to your liking as "not backing down and fighting" when I explained how the synth operates to those who asked, and I take offense to that. I made no claims as to which method was better, I simply explained the implementation.

Since you asked, I personally would have liked it if the saved parameter value was always visible and pushed for that feature. However, we're using a different display on the Rev2 and the screen real estate is sparse. Additionally we were trying to keep the build cost down to offer a lower price, so some trade offs were necessary.

We wanted to display the program name at all times so you could always change programs without having to first get back to "program mode" by pressing another switch, so that took precedence when deciding how some other features worked. We've received zero complaints regarding the Show button on the P12 and Pro 2 so that was deemed a viable option. Both of these factors contributed to the design.

I've answered questions regarding copying layers in the thread that is dedicated to that topic. If you have further questions, please ask them there.

Wow. Good to see you can take things onboard and not get too touchy......... Sigh.
I have used my Pro 08 for years. You getting angry when questioned about design decisions for it's replacement is of no use to anyone. If you can't handle customer criticism, you are in the wrong job. I still maintain that you are using the more complicated way to implement stored/edited values. I honestly don't care how you did it on the P12. This is a Pro08 replacement/update. I still don't understand the reasons. It worked well before and now it's complicated.
Anyway, I am finished with this. maybe if you implement showing this value and copying layers, I will buy one. If not, I will just slum it with my Pro 08 and OB8 :-)

Re: Recall patch from panel?
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2017, 08:36:05 PM »
I don't have the Rev 2 (yet ;D ) but have a P-08, P-12M and Pro-2.  I hadn't really thought about the difference in the Show feature until it was brought up in this thread.  Both get the job done - just differently.   I can't say I really have a preference - I just adapt to whatever instrument I'm programming.

BTW, while we're doing comparisons, the save function on the P-12/Pro-2 rocks compared to the P-08!  Hope that was another adaption DSI made to the Rev 2.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 08:43:39 PM by jdt9517 »
Jim Thorburn .  Toys-  Dave Smith: Prophet 5, Rev 4; Prophet 08; Pro 2; Prophet 12 module; EastWest Orchestral soft synths; Yamaha S-90; Yamaha Montage 8, Yamaha DX-7; KARP Odyssey; Ensoniq ESQ-1.  All run through a Cubase DAW with a Tascam DM-24 board.

dsetto

  • ***
  • 387
Re: Recall patch from panel?
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2017, 09:02:28 PM »
Writing on Rev2 is instant-fast when you know the patch number in advance. I don't know those other synths.

Re: Recall patch from panel?
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2017, 06:42:16 PM »
Wow. Good to see you can take things onboard and not get too touchy......... Sigh.
I have used my Pro 08 for years. You getting angry when questioned about design decisions for it's replacement is of no use to anyone. If you can't handle customer criticism, you are in the wrong job. I still maintain that you are using the more complicated way to implement stored/edited values.

You're missing the point. I'm not getting upset with you at all, I'm pointing out that *you* are in fact the one that's being combative while all I'm doing is answering customer questions regarding operation.

Again, nobody claimed one was better than the other. If you look back through the thread, my approach hasn't changed. I'm telling you how it's implemented and why, and nowhere did I claim the P8 way was wrong and the Rev2 way was right. You do gain something from having a Show button, which I mentioned in my initial reply to tolemi, and that is the ability to see the current parameter value without actually having to change the value of the parameter first.

Regarding the Rev2, I expect everyone to make their own decisions about whether or not an instrument suits them based on the features and how it operates. As it goes for any instrument, nothing will appeal to everyone and that's OK. There are plenty of alternatives available.

We are always happy to listen to customer feedback and criticisms, but I do not tolerate personal attacks or accusations. Period. Please be respectful and keep your comments focused on the instrument.
SEQUENTIAL | OBERHEIM

Re: Recall patch from panel?
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2017, 09:48:24 PM »
Writing on Rev2 is instant-fast when you know the patch number in advance. I don't know those other synths.

The P-12/Pro-2 allow you to see the name and hear the patch you are overwriting, so you don't save over a patch you want to keep.   On the P-08, selecting the patch number was a guessing game, unless you had the foresight to figure out where you wanted to save the patch beforehand.  In my creative moments I often would not figure out where I wanted to save the patch before programming. 
Jim Thorburn .  Toys-  Dave Smith: Prophet 5, Rev 4; Prophet 08; Pro 2; Prophet 12 module; EastWest Orchestral soft synths; Yamaha S-90; Yamaha Montage 8, Yamaha DX-7; KARP Odyssey; Ensoniq ESQ-1.  All run through a Cubase DAW with a Tascam DM-24 board.

Re: Recall patch from panel?
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2017, 09:51:45 AM »

You're missing the point. I'm not getting upset with you at all, I'm pointing out that *you* are in fact the one that's being combative while all I'm doing is answering customer questions regarding operation.

Again, nobody claimed one was better than the other. If you look back through the thread, my approach hasn't changed. I'm telling you how it's implemented and why, and nowhere did I claim the P8 way was wrong and the Rev2 way was right. You do gain something from having a Show button, which I mentioned in my initial reply to tolemi, and that is the ability to see the current parameter value without actually having to change the value of the parameter first.

Regarding the Rev2, I expect everyone to make their own decisions about whether or not an instrument suits them based on the features and how it operates. As it goes for any instrument, nothing will appeal to everyone and that's OK. There are plenty of alternatives available.

We are always happy to listen to customer feedback and criticisms, but I do not tolerate personal attacks or accusations. Period. Please be respectful and keep your comments focused on the instrument.

I have never personally attacked you in any of my questions. So when does a customer request or feedback become a personal attack? If it is something you are going to implement, it's customer feedback. If it's something you are not going to implement, it's a personal attack.
I am a DSI customer. I own your equipment already. I was one of the first to say I would buy this when it was announced.

dslsynth

  • ***
  • 1036
Re: Recall patch from panel?
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2017, 10:49:22 AM »
I see some rather heated discussions in this topic and some of the posts are almost scaringly aggressive.

When this forum was started I was told it will be kept as a nice place to be and that efforts would be made to make sure that was the case. This is not what I am seeing now.

I do get that written communication can be challenging and that we all have to work with the skill set and personalities that we happen to have. However, I really wish people at both sides of the desk would learn to tone down their language and communicate in ways that are friendly.

Please!

Thanks in advance,
dslsynth
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 11:38:32 AM by dslsynth »
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature