The Official Sequential/DSI Forum

Moog Mother-32

dslsynth

  • ***
  • 1036
Re: Moog Mother-32
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2015, 04:19:10 PM »
It is doable... but as I stated earlier, it's circumstancial, and not really the best way to get so basic a feature as LFO delay... it takes up both mod busses, and one envelope... of course you can share these, but it does limit you, especialy if you wanted to also use the filter envelope for the filter.

Seems like we keep running into voice architecture limitations - aka Spoiled By Dave Syndrome (TM) - these years!

. o O ( :o )
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Razmo

  • ***
  • 2168
  • I am shadow...
    • Kaleidoscopic Artworks
Re: Moog Mother-32
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2015, 04:24:38 PM »
It is doable... but as I stated earlier, it's circumstancial, and not really the best way to get so basic a feature as LFO delay... it takes up both mod busses, and one envelope... of course you can share these, but it does limit you, especialy if you wanted to also use the filter envelope for the filter.

Seems like we keep running into voice architecture limitations - aka Spoiled By Dave Syndrome (TM) - these years!

. o O ( :o )

Yeah... there is always something.... I guess... I just see them as constructive limitations, and it's always satisfying when you find a workaround... even though it's not optimal  ;D

Sub37 is one hell of a nice sounding machine... and MOOG really upped the engine compared to earlier gear... and I'm certain, that even if it had a thousand and one parameters to tweak, someone would crave for something it cannot do... that's just how it is... as with music, you cannot please them all...
If you need me, follow the shadows...

Re: Moog Mother-32
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2015, 07:24:14 PM »
Good advice.  There' s still much to think about.  Buying an instrument is a move that I don't take lightly.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Moog Mother-32
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2015, 08:39:24 PM »
There's never going to be the perfect one. In the end you just go for what's working for you. At least we have lots of diverse hardware to choose from, opposed to how things were are couple of years ago.

Re: Moog Mother-32
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2015, 03:06:15 PM »
If the perfect synthesizer doesn't exist unto itself, then you can still combine keyboards and modules to make something pretty close to perfect.  In other words, create your own recipe.  But even that requires much from each instrument.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 03:20:35 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Moog Mother-32
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2015, 04:40:00 PM »
If the perfect synthesizer doesn't exist unto itself, then you can still combine keyboards and modules to make something pretty close to perfect.  In other words, create your own recipe.  But even that requires much from each instrument.

Sure, which is why we all end up with the setups we have or can afford. When I visited Moog in Asheville this summer and was playing the Voyager XL in their showroom I was thinking that I'd probably have to sell all of my synths to be able to afford one - an instrument that some might consider to be the ultimate mono synth. And while it is indeed a fine instrument that sounds like every dollar you have to pay for it, it is also a bit limited on its own, i.e. without additional modules and/or Moogerfoogers. In my case it would also be a decision against variety. But even if I would decide for variety only in terms of a modular system, even a basic one (let's say 2 rows of 104 HP filled with stuff I find interesting) would cost me my Pro 2 and Sub 37. I don't need hundreds of keyboard controllers, but giving all of them up in favor of a set of modules wouldn't be very satisfying either. So it's all about what complements each other well with regard to personal preferences and needs - some of which we share, some of which we don't share.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 04:41:33 PM by Paul Dither »

Re: Moog Mother-32
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2015, 05:11:52 PM »
I completely agree with you. 

If I bought a Moog - say, a Sub 37 or a 2016 Minimoog Model E (!) - it would be with the intention of adding a self-contained module to it, possibly something totally unlike it, like an Evolver Desktop.  If I bought a Pro 2, I would certainly combine it with a strong analog module, such as a SEM.  So, I've learned to no longer look at any one instrument as a finished product, but more as the basis for a more complex one.  And this only supports my strong preference for a stereo field.  Unfortunately, I haven't yet found even the first block in this monophonic combination, and am still waiting for some instrument that strikes me.

I haven't given up entirely on the Prophet 6, even though I recently passed up an opportunity to buy one.  But even the P6 would be for me only the first step in a combination. 

The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Moog Mother-32
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2015, 05:22:57 PM »
a 2016 Minimoog Model E (!)

Ha! Do you know something the rest of us doesn't yet?

I haven't given up entirely on the Prophet 6, even though I recently passed up an opportunity to buy one.  But even the P6 would be for me only the first step in a combination.

I see. Well, I purchased something completely different this weekend: a Fender Rhodes Mark I, which wouldn't even fit into the category of this subforum.

Re: Moog Mother-32
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2015, 06:17:23 PM »
a 2016 Minimoog Model E (!)

Ha! Do you know something the rest of us doesn't yet?

I haven't given up entirely on the Prophet 6, even though I recently passed up an opportunity to buy one.  But even the P6 would be for me only the first step in a combination.

I see. Well, I purchased something completely different this weekend: a Fender Rhodes Mark I, which wouldn't even fit into the category of this subforum.

I'm having Minimoog dreams, and they're the only basis for my knowledge - sorry to say!

I had a Rhodes many years ago.  What a gorgeous sounding instrument.  And great for holding large synthesizers, too.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Moog Mother-32
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2015, 06:27:28 PM »
I'm having Minimoog dreams, and they're the only basis for my knowledge - sorry to say!

Haha! Never underestimate the secret knowledge of dreams.

I had a Rhodes many years ago.  What a gorgeous sounding instrument.  And great for holding large synthesizers, too.

I used to own my first Rhodes - a Mark II - in the late 1990s so I'm pretty familiar with it. Dunno what exactly got me into this one. Well, in fact I do: I was listening to David Bowie's new band, which is basically a Jazz band. Apart from being an avid DSI user, the keyboarder, Jason Lindner, is also a Rhodes player. And somehow that got me hooked again. And the fact that there's the company Vintage Vibe these days that is now manufacturing its own electro-mechanical pianos, but started off as a refurbishing company that also offers loads of rebuilt spare parts, which makes owning a vintage Rhodes piano as risky as owning a Fender guitar.

Re: Moog Mother-32
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2015, 06:35:47 PM »
I can't remember if I had a Mk I or II in about 1985, but I thought it sounded beautiful.  An EQ has remarkable effects on it.  When you open up the high end, it just sparkles.  I also had a Wurlitzer, but I liked the Rhodes more.  Make sure you get spare parts for it, though, - especially tines - because you'll be using them!
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Moog Mother-32
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2015, 06:54:54 PM »
I completely agree about the Rhodes and the Wurlitzer. I used to own both too, and figured that I'm more of a Rhodes guy in the end. Vintage Vibe offers nice mods as far as I could see, such as for an improved key action (they can sometimes react a bit sloppy) and also a tube driven pre-amp for the stage model, which might help emphasizing the classic "bark" of the older models. I would also assume that it'll sound nice with the MF-104 analog delay.

dslsynth

  • ***
  • 1036
Re: Moog Mother-32
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2015, 06:58:48 AM »
Congratulations with your new old Rhodes, Paul Dither! They sound darn good and I just love that sound! So can I lobby for a jazzy/electronic youtube jam one day with your new Rhodes? ;)

Do you happen to know Rheyne? He quite often puts drive on his Rhodes and it sounds great. Wonder if your MF-104M supports drive too? Also wonder how your Pro 2, Sub 37 and possibly Evolver can process the Rhodes sounds for added fun? There are plenty of options there.

Getting a pile of eurorack modules may sound tempting given how everyone these days seems to be heading in that credit card drain compatible direction. For a really evolved Heinz demanding case of modular runaway made by someone with almost devine powers look no further.

However with your Pro 2 you already got a synthesizer that interfaces well with eurorack gear. So a single module or two would be plenty. The Moog modular cases are nice and compact but of cause needs a power supply module too.

If I ever manage to get money for a modular setup it would not happen before we get a DSI/MI preset management and CV control module so that all the envelopes, lfos, modulation routings, glide, sequencer etc will be under digital control reachable via MIDI/sysex and one just needs the analog signal path modules. If so I would certainly get myself that AS Synthi filter just for the (sonic) smell of it!

As for Sacred Synthesis' mention of Minimoog Model E there are some rumors on the net about Moog Music having registered the Minimoog name again. So my guess is that we could very well see Moog going completely vintage at next gearmas! Wonder if it would be completely vintage or would have some kind of digital control too?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2015, 07:06:23 AM by dslsynth »
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: Moog Mother-32
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2015, 07:13:56 AM »
As for Sacred Synthesis' mention of Minimoog Model E there are some rumors on the net about Moog Music having registered the Minimoog name again. So my guess is that we could very well see Moog going completely vintage at next gearmas! Wonder if it would be completely vintage or would have some kind of digital control too?

Yes, that's what I was referring to.  I must admit, though, I wouldn't want it to be exactly like the original Model D, so I guess, as an analog purist, I'm somewhat of a traitor.  A little digital control sounds good to me, too.  Oh boy, the more I think of it, the more I'd like to make a number of changes.  An added LFO, rather than sacrificing the third oscillator; a full pulse width range, rather than selected waves; full ADSR envelopes; keyboard after touch  Yikes, I'd better stop.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

dslsynth

  • ***
  • 1036
Re: Moog Mother-32
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2015, 07:18:50 AM »
Hehe! That was the Spoiled By Dave Syndrome (TM) I was referring to earlier on. You see these days there are many more options for CV control and more features are simply needed for modern sound design. In other words I would personally cheers on the sideline about the reissue of the classic Minimoog but honestly I would rather like to see what the knowledge gained by Moog will give of modern products on the longer term. Hopefully they learn something that will make their instruments sound even better!
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: Moog Mother-32
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2015, 07:38:40 AM »
Agreed.  I'd probably prefer a variation on the Voyager, adding a number of things - such as a second LFO and a better sawtooth wave - while restoring some of the Model D's original flavor.  I also missed the Model D's pink noise and A-440 tuning tone.  I'm so tempted to buy one of the last Voyagers, but no.

You know what else I so miss about the Model D?  It's big glorious knobs.  :o  They were so much nicer to program with than tiny knobs or sliders.  I even wish DSI would return to the Prophet 5 size controls.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2015, 08:21:36 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Moog Mother-32
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2015, 09:14:48 AM »
Congratulations with your new old Rhodes, Paul Dither! They sound darn good and I just love that sound! So can I lobby for a jazzy/electronic youtube jam one day with your new Rhodes? ;)

Haha, somehow I was expecting that kind of question. Dunno yet - I do have a Jazz past, though. I have to point out that I only purchased the Rhodes so far, but do not have it at home yet. It's still to be delivered, which also means that not everything is ultimately set yet. When it's not in the promised condition, I would return it, as I don't want to spend a fortune on refurbishing it, especially since I still want a Prophet-6.

Do you happen to know Rheyne? He quite often puts drive on his Rhodes and it sounds great. Wonder if your MF-104M supports drive too? Also wonder how your Pro 2, Sub 37 and possibly Evolver can process the Rhodes sounds for added fun? There are plenty of options there.

I didn't know Rheyne, will check him out. And yes, the MF-104M has the built-in drive, but that might not be necessary in the end, since one of the mods I've been thinking about is this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtCRT71zFag

Lots of good ideas with regard to the Pro 2 and Sub 37, dslsynth. I didn't even think of that to be honest. But yeah, that definitely would be fun.

Getting a pile of eurorack modules may sound tempting given how everyone these days seems to be heading in that credit card drain compatible direction. For a really evolved Heinz demanding case of modular runaway made by someone with almost devine powers look no further.

Good stuff, but it'll probably take me years to get there.

However with your Pro 2 you already got a synthesizer that interfaces well with eurorack gear. So a single module or two would be plenty. The Moog modular cases are nice and compact but of cause needs a power supply module too.

True. However, there are lots of nice modules that could take over a complementary function. Stuff I'd be interested in includes Waldorf's nw1, Mutable Instruments' Cloud and Elements, Verbos Electronics' Harmonic Oscillator, and Make Noise's Maths and René to name a few.

As for the Moog cases: Yeah, not including a power supply is kind of a bummer. They are also relatively small and not very practical in terms of transportation. And to get back to topic: I have to say that I'm not overwhelmed by the Mother-32. I mean it looks appealing and sounds nice, but I think its best place is for people, who just start with a system. If I'd be a teenager right now and only had a MiniBrute and stuff like that, I could see myself going there and then follow the modular path. For where I'm now, the Mother-32 is not that appealing, neither would be 2 or 3 Mothers. And although it doesn't sound too shabby, don't expect it to blow you away when it's used dry (i.e. without tons of reverb or delay). Soundwise, instruments like the Korg Odyssey had a bigger effect on me.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2015, 09:48:22 AM by Paul Dither »

dslsynth

  • ***
  • 1036
Re: Moog Mother-32
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2015, 03:31:04 PM »
I also missed the Model D's pink noise and A-440 tuning tone.

Speaking of which it would be really great if one could filter the noise pre filter and use filtered noise as modulation sources too. Said in another word: having a noise color parameter would be cool! There are already some features like that in Prophet 12 and Pro 2 but it costs a digital oscillator to use it.

I'm so tempted to buy one of the last Voyagers, but no.

I do understand why you feel tempted by one of the last voyagers. Its a great looking and sounding machine for sure. But honestly it still got software and hardware issues. We don't know what the future holds nor sounds like but I would be surprised if a new high profile keyboard from Moog would be less stable than the mighty Voyager.
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

dslsynth

  • ***
  • 1036
Re: Moog Mother-32
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2015, 04:04:42 PM »
When it's not in the promised condition, I would return it, as I don't want to spend a fortune on refurbishing it, especially since I still want a Prophet-6.

Oh yes, that's always a challenge with old stuff. Were some years ago about to buy an old Oberheim Matrix-6. In the end I picked a yellow box instead but I am still at times thinking about getting an old Matrix-1000.

However, there are lots of nice modules that could take over a complementary function. Stuff I'd be interested in includes Waldorf's nw1, Mutable Instruments' Cloud and Elements, Verbos Electronics' Harmonic Oscillator, and Make Noise's Maths and René to name a few.

And that's the root cause of modular runaway for da eurowrecks! ;) There are indeed many a cool modules out there. After you wrote the above I ended up spending some time looking at reviews for Clouds and Rings both of which are quite interesting. Look, its indeed very dangerous!

In fact I have tried to lobby a little for modular features in desktop modules at a well known place. Would be cool to see MI make something really complex as a desktop module even if it did not include all of Braids, Clouds, Elements and Rings in a single voice architecture.
. o O ( droooooooool )

Good stuff, but it'll probably take me years to get there.

My point was that walls of modules covered by thick layers of patch cables may not be the best solution after all. Richard Devine is surely a cool guy and a very talented artist. I am just wondering if creativity would really thrive in such a context where its so difficult to keep an overview of what is really going on?

And to get back to topic: I have to say that I'm not overwhelmed by the Mother-32. I mean it looks appealing and sounds nice, but I think its best place is for people, who just start with a system.

More oscillators could maybe help on the sound quality. Honestly I would prefer if Moog made high quality filter and oscillator modules in eurorack format. Fun exercise for those with a Mother-32: compare the sound quality of it with their other instruments using just a single oscillator and only the envelope/lfo controls featured on Mother-32 too. Would be cool to hear the results!
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: Moog Mother-32
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2015, 05:11:37 PM »
And that's the root cause of modular runaway for da eurowrecks! ;) There are indeed many a cool modules out there. After you wrote the above I ended up spending some time looking at reviews for Clouds and Rings both of which are quite interesting. Look, its indeed very dangerous!

Yep!

More oscillators could maybe help on the sound quality. Honestly I would prefer if Moog made high quality filter and oscillator modules in eurorack format. Fun exercise for those with a Mother-32: compare the sound quality of it with their other instruments using just a single oscillator and only the envelope/lfo controls featured on Mother-32 too. Would be cool to hear the results!

I don't think that we've seen the last of Moog going Eurorack. There's definitely more to come. Everything else would be quite stupid of them. They've been late to the game already.