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Moog Re-Issues (yawn) Another One

chysn

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DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

chysn

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Re: Moog Re-Issues (yawn) Another One
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2017, 02:46:07 PM »
Not that these things aren't interesting in principle, but who's ever going to lay hands on one? I've defended these things in the past because I figured it was just a way to get Moog's engineers interested in, and more knowledgeable about, Moog's electronics. But that was a couple years ago, and now it just seems like they've got nothin' for ideas.

It might be exciting if Moog adopted Buchla Electronic Musical Instruments's approach: modernize and sell individual modules. Sure, they're pricey; a Buchla complex oscillator costs $1500. But give me a $6000 budget and I'll build a usable synth from their assortment of modules.

In other words, an announcement that they're re-introducing the 901, the 904A, the 902, and that crew, would actually be interesting.
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Re: Moog Re-Issues (yawn) Another One
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2017, 03:32:29 PM »
I regard this whole modular system series as Moog's version of what Fender does with its Custom Shop for example. From the get-go these products are catered to a specific audience like collectors, studio owners, or producers. It's also going to be strictly limited which goes hand in hand with a price of $35k.

It'll be interesting to see what will be added to the rather mainstream stock in the future and whether the Drummer From Another Mother (http://www.matrixsynth.com/2017/04/first-video-of-moogs-upcoming-drummer.html) will remain an exclusive Moogfest item.

The seemingly constant reissue announcements might leave the impression that Moog are actually very limited in their offerings, but they do cover a broad range of products from the apps, the Minifooger effect pedals, Theremins, synths like the Minitaur, Sub Phatty, Sub 37 (of which they sold more than 17,000), Werkstatt, the semi-modular Mother-32, the Moogerfoogers up to the Minimoog. They also recently discontinued a couple of products like the whole Voyager line and the 500 series. So there's definitely space for new or different stuff if they can handle the according production without facing backorder problems.

Transforming some of their classic modules to the Eurorack format would also still be an option.

Re: Moog Re-Issues (yawn) Another One
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2017, 09:59:20 PM »
I'd rather a four voice polyphonic Sub 37. I'm tired of mono synths.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

Re: Moog Re-Issues (yawn) Another One
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2017, 05:49:37 AM »
Not that these things aren't interesting in principle, but who's ever going to lay hands on one? I've defended these things in the past because I figured it was just a way to get Moog's engineers interested in, and more knowledgeable about, Moog's electronics. But that was a couple years ago, and now it just seems like they've got nothin' for ideas.

Not just their (younger) engineers, but those of us (not necessarily so young) that grew up with pre-patched subtractive synthesizer voices (without the benefit of a university music department's modular system, for example).

That said–I think they've reached their primeval endpoint as far as historical re-issues go.

I also agree that it's high time for them to start selling individual modules; I've specifically considered dot-com format modules, predicated on the notion that I already know what appurtenances I require; that said, I suspect that they (Moog) are constrained in their ability to supply and support that business, at the moment at least.

Eurorack is nice for compact, portable modular setups, but I really appreciate the larger form-factor / ergonomics of large-format setups. I have no intention to drag a large modular setup along for live performance purposes, though a Moog Model 15 or Roland System-700 "Lab Series" setup (somewhat pre-patched) may be just about right:



« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 05:58:57 AM by DavidDever »
Sequential / DSI stuff: Prophet-6 Keyboard, Prophet 12 Keyboard, Mono Evolver Keyboard, Split-Eight, Prophet 2000

Re: Moog Re-Issues (yawn) Another One
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2017, 07:43:28 AM »
Eurorack is nice for compact, portable modular setups, but I really appreciate the larger form-factor / ergonomics of large-format setups. I have no intention to drag a large modular setup along for live performance purposes, though a Moog Model 15 or Roland System-700 "Lab Series" setup (somewhat pre-patched) may be just about right

If you're looking for a Model 15 in particular, there are at least two more affordable alternatives from Mos-Lab and COTK at a roughly similar price: €3,800 for the Mos-Lab, €3,000 for the COTK (I only know the Euro prices). Especially the latter received pretty good reviews (for example: http://greatsynthesizers.com/en/test/cotk-model-15-a-tool-for-elegant-sound/).

Re: Moog Re-Issues (yawn) Another One
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2017, 07:53:15 AM »
Eurorack is nice for compact, portable modular setups, but I really appreciate the larger form-factor / ergonomics of large-format setups. I have no intention to drag a large modular setup along for live performance purposes, though a Moog Model 15 or Roland System-700 "Lab Series" setup (somewhat pre-patched) may be just about right

If you're looking for a Model 15 in particular, there are at least two more affordable alternatives from Mos-Lab and COTK at a roughly similar price: €3,800 for the Mos-Lab, €3,000 for the COTK (I only know the Euro prices). Especially the latter received pretty good reviews (for example: http://greatsynthesizers.com/en/test/cotk-model-15-a-tool-for-elegant-sound/).
Yep - the likelihood of me having a cool $10K to spend is pretty low, though €3,000 might be, at some point.
Sequential / DSI stuff: Prophet-6 Keyboard, Prophet 12 Keyboard, Mono Evolver Keyboard, Split-Eight, Prophet 2000

chysn

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Re: Moog Re-Issues (yawn) Another One
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2017, 10:50:32 AM »
Yep - the likelihood of me having a cool $10K to spend is pretty low, though €3,000 might be, at some point.

If your desires are driven by musical application and not by reverence (or nostalgia?) then €3,000 or $3,000 will get you a very capable modular synthesizer in most formats. Moog has probably painted itself into a pricing corner, if it plans on selling 900-series modules at some point, since I don't see how you can add up 900-series modules to get a Model 15 to $10,000.

Realistically, I think that Moog has lost command of its own format. Decades of foot-dragging have resulted in several companies filling the MU format with very highly-regarded stuff, so it'll be particularly hard for Moog to find room. People who buy modular systems for music aren't going to pay much more for something says "Moog" on it, because those people have gotten used to non-Moog stuff being really good.
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Re: Moog Re-Issues (yawn) Another One
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2017, 11:24:55 AM »
Yep - the likelihood of me having a cool $10K to spend is pretty low, though €3,000 might be, at some point.

If your desires are driven by musical application and not by reverence (or nostalgia?) then €3,000 or $3,000 will get you a very capable modular synthesizer in most formats. Moog has probably painted itself into a pricing corner, if it plans on selling 900-series modules at some point, since I don't see how you can add up 900-series modules to get a Model 15 to $10,000.

As I've tried to say above, Moog probably did so deliberately. Their big modular systems are super limited. Only 25 of the IIIc will be made. I don't think they expect these to be bought by young musicians with an average income, mostly touring musicians, casual synthesists, or hobbyists. This is a pure aficionado business, not really related to what else they're offering. The team that's responsible for those modular systems is even almost like a subdivision within Moog.

Realistically, I think that Moog has lost command of its own format. Decades of foot-dragging have resulted in several companies filling the MU format with very highly-regarded stuff, so it'll be particularly hard for Moog to find room. People who buy modular systems for music aren't going to pay much more for something says "Moog" on it, because those people have gotten used to non-Moog stuff being really good.

That of course is even more true for the Eurorack format. Although I'm still curious to see whether Moog will eventually take the plunge beyond semi-modular stuff that takes up lots of rack space, it is I think appropriate to remain skeptical about how much Moog is (still) being missed in the modular world. After all, there's so much stuff out there by now that goes way beyond the capabilities of the 901, the 902, or the 904A. Even if the latter would provide that particular sound, they would remain one little ingredient amongst many, especially since hybrid systems have become mainstream by now.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 11:28:47 AM by Paul Dither »

chysn

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Re: Moog Re-Issues (yawn) Another One
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2017, 04:07:49 PM »
As I've tried to say above, Moog probably did so deliberately. Their big modular systems are super limited. Only 25 of the IIIc will be made. I don't think they expect these to be bought by young musicians with an average income, mostly touring musicians, casual synthesists, or hobbyists. This is a pure aficionado business, not really related to what else they're offering. The team that's responsible for those modular systems is even almost like a subdivision within Moog.

Yeah, I get that. But even aficionados need to perceive value. If it doesn't cost at least $10,000 to build a Model 15, then Moog's pricing seems unjustified.

it is I think appropriate to remain skeptical about how much Moog is (still) being missed in the modular world.

The answer is clearly "not very much," for the reasons you mentioned. AJH and Aion nail that sound and aesthetic for Minimoog and Moog modular, respectively. And also, eurorack folks seem to bend slightly more toward West Coast techniques. The format is full of ridiculously talented manufacturers, who've made it possible to choose from among 50 years of iconic building blocks. We'd welcome Moog if the price is right, but we're fine without it.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 04:09:21 PM by chysn »
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Re: Moog Re-Issues (yawn) Another One
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2017, 03:12:46 AM »
eurorack folks seem to bend slightly more toward West Coast techniques. The format is full of ridiculously talented manufacturers, who've made it possible to choose from among 50 years of iconic building blocks. We'd welcome Moog if the price is right, but we're fine without it.

Right. Coming from Superbooth, where I was surrounded by as many different modules like never before, I would just like to add that even the coast ascription seems to have become pretty much irrelevant by now. People just get what they think they'll need regardless of 'ideological' preferences, whether it's analog, DSP-based, multifunctional, basic but purposeful, VCO-based, wavetable-based, sample-based, field-kit-based, etc.

chysn

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Re: Moog Re-Issues (yawn) Another One
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2017, 04:55:09 AM »
I would just like to add that even the coast ascription seems to have become pretty much irrelevant by now.

To the extent that there's not really a "holy war" going on, and synths can be a healthy mix, and that there's no real geography involved anymore*, that's true. It's still a worthwhile distinction for a constellation of things, though.

* To wit, DSI is on the west coast and Make Noise is on the east
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Re: Moog Re-Issues (yawn) Another One
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2017, 05:45:59 PM »
I think Synthesizers.com has surpassed Moog at it's own modular game. The only thing Moog has over them at this point is a name.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

Re: Moog Re-Issues (yawn) Another One
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2017, 05:08:33 AM »
I think Synthesizers.com has surpassed Moog at it's own modular game. The only thing Moog has over them at this point is a name.

Agreed–before there existed any Moog reissues, dotcom/MU was the only game in town at that size (power rails notwithstanding).
Sequential / DSI stuff: Prophet-6 Keyboard, Prophet 12 Keyboard, Mono Evolver Keyboard, Split-Eight, Prophet 2000

Shaw

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Re: Moog Re-Issues (yawn) Another One
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2017, 11:08:55 AM »
I think Synthesizers.com has surpassed Moog at it's own modular game. The only thing Moog has over them at this point is a name.
I think Synthesizers.com beat Moog years ago.  Browse their modules page, see the variety.... http://www.synthesizers.com/modules.html
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa