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Novation Peak

dslsynth

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Re: Novation Peak
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2018, 12:33:39 PM »
The CC / CC pair / NRPN thing makes my head hurt...imagine trying to develop an editor for that!

It doesn't look too bad to me. The value ranges and controller notations look a bit funny but otherwise its a standard fixed length program vector format. Will take a few knob turns to answer these questions and some more involved checks to verify the location of parameters inside the program vector. But overall its a fairly simple format.

The valid critique of the documentation is that not all details are defined precisely. Nor do they define the sysex messages supported by the instrument.

Overall impression: about the same as current DSI documentation but without defining the sysex messages.

I would even go as far as calling Peak for Novations attempt at a Prophet 12 like design.
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dslsynth

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Re: Novation Peak
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2018, 12:42:01 PM »
Novation refuses to release the spec of Sysex for the Peak.

Have been wondering if they don't publish it because its too much work to document the format. In any case its simply bad style not to publish such information as a public specifications allows users to do more with their instrument.
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Re: Novation Peak
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2018, 02:28:45 PM »
Wonder if we'll see a keyboard version at Namm?
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Oberheim SEM-Pro, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano,Kurzweil K2600XS, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii

megamarkd

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Re: Novation Peak
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2018, 11:36:46 PM »
Here's the manual...   https://d2xhy469pqj8rc.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/novation/downloads/15610/peak-ug-en.pdf

The CC / CC pair / NRPN thing makes my head hurt...imagine trying to develop an editor for that!

Oh it's truly dreadful.  There's no need to use a combination of CC's and NRPN's, all it does is make it hard to configure a controller (as Daviddever said).  I've looked at the MIDI implementation for my Circuit and it's like each preset has it's own set of CC's/NRPN's, not just a set bunch of parameters that are controlled by a set of universal NRPN's for every preset.  It's insane, they make Roland look MIDI geniuses!

dslsynth

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Re: Novation Peak
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2018, 12:54:28 PM »
I've looked at the MIDI implementation for my Circuit and it's like each preset has it's own set of CC's/NRPN's, not just a set bunch of parameters that are controlled by a set of universal NRPN's for every preset.  It's insane, they make Roland look MIDI geniuses!

Quite the compliment! . o O ( :o :o :o )
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Shaw

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Re: Novation Peak
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2018, 01:06:47 PM »
I've looked at the MIDI implementation for my Circuit and it's like each preset has it's own set of CC's/NRPN's, not just a set bunch of parameters that are controlled by a set of universal NRPN's for every preset.  It's insane, they make Roland look MIDI geniuses!

Quite the compliment! . o O ( :o :o :o )
https://youtu.be/NoptofKbQ04
Prophet X  |  Prophet 12  |  OB-6
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

dslsynth

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Re: Novation Peak
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2018, 01:34:40 PM »
https://youtu.be/NoptofKbQ04

You mean its time for a little sabre dance? Well, I think we are better off hoping SABRE won't dance! ;)
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Re: Novation Peak
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2018, 03:08:29 PM »
This sounds pretty good to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKssAN1cXKo
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
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Re: Novation Peak
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2018, 01:22:29 AM »
<rant> Won't buy anything that has not a full Sysex/midi documented spec or if the manufacturer does not want to publish it or provide support for it.  These are instruments and not disposable toys that when an OS updates the software tool does not work anymore. To make an editor with this clumsy implementation is not a real problem and doable, but a bit of overhead to code. But an editor without a possibility to send/receive patches from/to the editor and the "instrument" is very clumsy and there is no reason to not publishing it. </rant>

megamarkd

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Re: Novation Peak
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2018, 06:07:44 PM »
This sounds pretty good to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKssAN1cXKo

They sound unreal and I'd like one.

The MIDI "issues" with the Circuit I'd hope are more pronounced considering it was supposed to be a sketch-pad with some DJ type usage also.  It's a lot of fun and I'd still have bought it (2nd hand at half the store cost) if I knew there was a crappy MIDI implementation.  It's not a "real" synth, I'd put it in the realm of drummachine if anything and the very crappy MIDI doesn't impact upon it's ability to blow a hole in your wall.  It's weird how Novation work, they made some of the best MIDI controller, some of the few on the market that can transmit 14bit NRPN's with simple programmers that are not even needed really as it can all be done from the front face.

I've just had a look at the MIDI parameter list for the Peak, it's the same mishmash of NRPN's and CC's.  They are listed in parameter order and they don't mention if the NRPN's are in hex or dec and what the hell is 0:2?  It's supposed to be an NRPN number but it's a ratio, so again back to is it hex or dec?
Part of me was sure they wouldn't make it so cryptic with a real synth.  They must think we all have 12 arms and can play four synths at once while tweaking dials so have no real need for that silly MIDI stuff...... I wish I could say I've dealt with worse, but I haven't.

I still want one, it'd probably become a performance machine as it needs to be tweaked live if it is to be at all with any ease.  Nothing can ruin it's ability have a sequence of notes shot at it via MIDI, so at least that part would work as with any other MIDI instrument/module.

dslsynth

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Re: Novation Peak
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2018, 01:13:09 PM »
They are listed in parameter order and they don't mention if the NRPN's are in hex or dec and what the hell is 0:2?  It's supposed to be an NRPN number but it's a ratio, so again back to is it hex or dec?

NRPN messages are composed of a minor and major id and value parts. Most likely its decimal and most likely A:B means A*128 + B or A + 128 * B. The best way to determine that is to connect a MIDI monitoring program to the Peak and check what MIDI data is send when turning a corresponding knob. So that part is not a problem. Its only that they do not document the sysex messages nor the program vector layout.
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Re: Novation Peak
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2018, 07:33:43 PM »
They are listed in parameter order and they don't mention if the NRPN's are in hex or dec and what the hell is 0:2?  It's supposed to be an NRPN number but it's a ratio, so again back to is it hex or dec?

NRPN messages are composed of a minor and major id and value parts. Most likely its decimal and most likely A:B means A*128 + B or A + 128 * B. The best way to determine that is to connect a MIDI monitoring program to the Peak and check what MIDI data is send when turning a corresponding knob. So that part is not a problem. Its only that they do not document the sysex messages nor the program vector layout.

In general, there shouldn't be a need to mix CCs and NRPNs. It's sloppy–and for DAWs which cannot handle one or the other, it's a woefully incomplete implementation.

Sysex documentation is yet another discussion–but yes–ought to be complete and well-documented on the day the product ships, and any updates / changes to spec noted within their own docs.
Sequential / DSI / Pioneer stuff: Prophet 12 Keyboard, Mono Evolver Keyboard, TORAIZ AS-1, Prophet-600 Gligli, Prophet 2000

Razmo

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Re: Novation Peak
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2019, 03:16:35 PM »
I cannot find the PEAK at Thomann anymore... and at Gear4Music they have a few "on sale"... I'm beginning to think that we'll soon see a new PEAK version from Novation... maybe a 16 voice version, maybe a keyboard version... Thomann had them on sale quite cheap when they still had them...

Shaw

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Re: Novation Peak
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2019, 03:38:06 PM »
I cannot find the PEAK at Thomann anymore... and at Gear4Music they have a few "on sale"... I'm beginning to think that we'll soon see a new PEAK version from Novation... maybe a 16 voice version, maybe a keyboard version... Thomann had them on sale quite cheap when they still had them...
A knobby 16 voice keyboard version would sell like hot cakes...
Prophet X  |  Prophet 12  |  OB-6
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: Novation Peak
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2019, 10:34:57 PM »
I cannot find the PEAK at Thomann anymore... and at Gear4Music they have a few "on sale"... I'm beginning to think that we'll soon see a new PEAK version from Novation... maybe a 16 voice version, maybe a keyboard version... Thomann had them on sale quite cheap when they still had them...
A knobby 16 voice keyboard version would sell like hot cakes...

It will be interesting if Sequential come out with a Wavetable based or digital oscillator/analog filter around the same time as this possible Novation Superpeak or Twin Peak.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Oberheim SEM-Pro, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano,Kurzweil K2600XS, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii

Razmo

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Re: Novation Peak
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2019, 12:08:42 AM »
Well... I was on the verge of buying one soon actually... been tempting for a long while, but I think I'll hold on a bit until Sequential show what they intend to replace the P12 with... and then hopefully I'll know more about the PEAK's fate by then too... I'm on the lookout for a high-end hybrid digital front end synth as my next synth and was focusing on PEAK and P12 (secondhand)... but now I am not so sure anymore...

Re: Novation Peak
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2019, 02:55:46 PM »
This sounds pretty good to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKssAN1cXKo

I love a lot of the sounds in that video. I've watched it a dozen times just to hear them.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Oberheim SEM-Pro, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano,Kurzweil K2600XS, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii

megamarkd

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Re: Novation Peak
« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2019, 12:09:29 AM »
Some companies are flouting their new products for this half of the year already, while some are being quiet, possibly waiting tor the 24th to show-off their wares.
Don't think that Novation is retiring the Peak as it's still for sale on their site shop, but an increased voice, or even multitimbre Peak would be tasty indeed.

Razmo

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Re: Novation Peak
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2019, 12:27:54 AM »
Some companies are flouting their new products for this half of the year already, while some are being quiet, possibly waiting tor the 24th to show-off their wares.
Don't think that Novation is retiring the Peak as it's still for sale on their site shop, but an increased voice, or even multitimbre Peak would be tasty indeed.

Yeah... But the PEAK is totaly off the Thomann site and have been for some weeks now, and when they were there the price was considerably less than what they go for even now for no apparent reason... Normally at Thomann, if they are out of stock, the product is still there to be seen... But when they disappear they usually do not come back again which seems weird, as this is a rather popular synth...

I read somewhere, that Novation answered to questions about a key version, that it would depend on sales if any would see the light of day... I feel it has sold pretty well, and a 16 voice version would not be unrealistic with 16 voices becoming the trend now, and people calling for a keyboard version since its release.

It is mysterious enough for me to hold back on a PEAK for a while at least 🙂

jok3r

Re: Novation Peak
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2019, 02:16:34 AM »
Yeah... But the PEAK is totaly off the Thomann site and have been for some weeks now, and when they were there the price was considerably less than what they go for even now for no apparent reason... Normally at Thomann, if they are out of stock, the product is still there to be seen... But when they disappear they usually do not come back again which seems weird, as this is a rather popular synth...

As you know, I'm living in Germany, but not only this: Treppendorf (the small village where the thomann headquarters are) is only about 30km away from me, so I'm visiting their showroom quite often. My last visit was about two weeks ago and it happened that I asked about the disappeared PEAK on their website ( I have a PEAK myself and was looking for signs of an upcoming keyboard version so I wanted to look at Thomanns current price so I noticed it disappeared, too). I was told by one of the employees that I personally know, that Thomann would not earn a single € at the PEAKs current price point but they still had costs for logistics, so they temporarily took it out of their range. I do not know if that is really all and if it's true at all, or if this is just the version that he was allowed to tell me.

At a former visit I took a (bad) picture of the shelf with the DSI synth for a friend of mine. I will leave it here for you just for fun ;-)
Prophet Rev2, Novation Peak, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES,  Akai MPK 261